Yes so, Jade druid is not really a problem obviously so lets just chill for a second and breathe after you just read that title.
What I'd like to propose is a Jade Idol Change
Jade Idol 1 mana
choose 1
Summon a Jade golem
shuffle 3 jade tokens into your deck
Jade token 1 mana
Summon a jade golem
Okay its a very basic change, nothing MAJOR HERP DERP. The change is that you can no longer keep refilling your deck with jade idols to ward off fatigue. You can however essentially gang up your jade idol still which is fair, but at the same time you can not do it again. it also works the same with fandral.
So this way it really makes you decide if you really want that extra golem or you want to save idol for late game when you can put out a ton of jades really quickly. The other change would to make idol a 2 mana card which i think its equally valid but doesn't change the overall issue.
TLDR: Healthy change to reduce how Jade Idol works as a hard check on control decks
No. This caps Druid to 14/14 Jade Golems. It also kills Gadgetzan Auctioneer combo because its now way less reliable.
The really cool thing about Jade Idol is that you have to find a balance. Shuffle too many too early into your deck and you're stuck if you don't draw cards. Shuffle too little and you have too little firepower late game when you need it.
Doing this change would essentially kill Jade Druid. You might think not because they can summon up to 14/14's, but it would be way harder to actually reliably get to it before your opponent finishes you off and even if you get to 12/12 if your opponent negates your board by means such as Eadric its an instant game over. Druid's need that combo because its their only means of killing their opponent before they kill you.
And as for your other comment about fatigue issues, HS isn't dominated by control decks so that shouldn't even be an issue. Aggro, Tempo, and Midrange all still exist...
The amount of people who complain about aggro don't realize it keeps greed decks in check. If the meta was control-oriented, Jade Druid would be oppressive as fuck. But I guess you can say that for any state of the meta. It's ridiculous how people think one archetype is a problem, when overall they keep each other in check
Another interesting fix would be increasing the mana cost for each subsequent cast, and capping it at 10. That way druid still has infinite golems, and its no longer the single most valuable spell in the game!
Even with the upcoming nerfs, Jade Druid will not dominate the meta, simply because aggro still exist. Pirates will be a bit weaker, but Pirates are FAR from dead. Also with the nerf of Pirate Warrior, other aggressive decks or decks that can easily deal with jade druid are getting stronger. For example Zoolock. It's extremely bad against Pirate Warrior, with the nerf of Small-Time Buccaneer you can now tech more with Mortal Coil against them.
And in my eyes, Zoolock has a better winrate against Jade Druid than any other deck. And Hunter: Pirates destroyed Hunter, but with weaker Pirates, they might get a comeback. And Midrange-Hunter or even Aggro-Hunter might see a comeback too. And even without Pirates, Face-Shaman can still smorc the hell out of Druid.
Jade Druid needs a lot of card draw, and can't play a lot of things until they are at 5-6 mana. And even without Pirates many decks can counter this.
No. This caps Druid to 14/14 Jade Golems. It also kills Gadgetzan Auctioneer combo because its now way less reliable.
The really cool thing about Jade Idol is that you have to find a balance. Shuffle too many too early into your deck and you're stuck if you don't draw cards. Shuffle too little and you have too little firepower late game when you need it.
Doing this change would essentially kill Jade Druid. You might think not because they can summon up to 14/14's, but it would be way harder to actually reliably get to it before your opponent finishes you off and even if you get to 12/12 if your opponent negates your board by means such as Eadric its an instant game over. Druid's need that combo because its their only means of killing their opponent before they kill you.
And as for your other comment about fatigue issues, HS isn't dominated by control decks so that shouldn't even be an issue. Aggro, Tempo, and Midrange all still exist...
Sorry but I like Jade Idol as it is
It's not a bad card, just not really balanced persay. The only thing i don't like is that its just going to put control priest and control warrior in check for the next full 3 expansions. Obviously aggro puts jade druid in check, but jade druid puts so many other decks in check. IMO the only saving grace is Healdin actually getting good. (since pyro/con equality wrecks jade pretty hard). But healadin is really weak against reno mage right now which kinda is bullox.
I actually don't think it's a problem, Jade Idol adds a lot of interesting decision making in otherwise pretty straightforward deck which Jade Druid undoubtedly is.
Yeah, it destroys control, but aggro destroys Druid... And this rock-paper-scissors meta is much better than one deck absolutely crushing everything else and if you played other card games, metas look like this very often.
Well the issue is
Reno is not a hard check to aggro
aggro is not a hard check to jade
shaman variants also are not a hard check to most decks
Jade druid is a Hard check to control warrior and Priest
^ and this is the nature of the problem. an aggro can win by turn 5 and beat out a reno, and a jade can land good enough clears and taunts to survive aggro. but jade idol invalidates fatigue decks all together/ really makes most non kazakus control decks unreliable(aoe polymorph op)
I actually don't think it's a problem, Jade Idol adds a lot of interesting decision making in otherwise pretty straightforward deck which Jade Druid undoubtedly is.
Yeah, it destroys control, but aggro destroys Druid... And this rock-paper-scissors meta is much better than one deck absolutely crushing everything else and if you played other card games, metas look like this very often.
Well the issue is
Reno is not a hard check to aggro
aggro is not a hard check to jade
shaman variants also are not a hard check to most decks
Jade druid is a Hard check to control warrior and Priest
^ and this is the nature of the problem. an aggro can win by turn 5 and beat out a reno, and a jade can land good enough clears and taunts to survive aggro. but jade idol invalidates fatigue decks all together/ really makes most non kazakus control decks unreliable(aoe polymorph op)
Actually, Aggro is as much a hard check to Jade as Jade is to Control. That's how polarized that matchup is, and even if you slow it down from Pirate Warrior to something like Discolock it's still going to get severely punished. Unless something drastically changes with how you climb the ladder, fast decks are probably still going to be the more common factor (especially if Jade Druid surges drastically enough).
Jade Druid and Control Warrior are both capable of serving as essentially hard counters to different portions of the meta. Considering no one has really bothered to call for Armor values to be drastically reduced so that Freeze Mages and hyper-aggressive decks could go without a substantial roadblock, I don't think there's any reason to do the same kind of favor toward Control Priest or Control Warrior. Fatigue decks aren't anything to be preserved, and as we can see something like Control Warrior is still perfectly relevant.
So while I'm perfectly happy to eat crow and admit the card is problematic when the meta is nothing but infinite-Idol shenanigans after Pirates get knocked down a notch, suffice to say I hardly think it's actually a thing to be legitimately concerned about. As long as Jade Druid remains a minority and the majority of ladder is Aggro/Midrange, Control absolutely will remain relevant.
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No. This caps Druid to 14/14 Jade Golems. It also kills Gadgetzan Auctioneer combo because its now way less reliable.
The really cool thing about Jade Idol is that you have to find a balance. Shuffle too many too early into your deck and you're stuck if you don't draw cards. Shuffle too little and you have too little firepower late game when you need it.
Doing this change would essentially kill Jade Druid. You might think not because they can summon up to 14/14's, but it would be way harder to actually reliably get to it before your opponent finishes you off and even if you get to 12/12 if your opponent negates your board by means such as Eadric its an instant game over. Druid's need that combo because its their only means of killing their opponent before they kill you.
And as for your other comment about fatigue issues, HS isn't dominated by control decks so that shouldn't even be an issue. Aggro, Tempo, and Midrange all still exist...
Sorry but I like Jade Idol as it is
I look a jade druid like this: If jade druid exists an aggro meta is the only meta that can exist.
Why? Well in mainly centers on the fact that jade druid is such an oppressive deck vs control decks that a control meta can never emerge otherwise jade druid will just become the deck to beat. From there jade druid gets stomped by aggro decks meaning aggro will become the deck to beat. However control isn't as hard a counter as the decks above are due to the insane power of aggro. (STB, patches etc. etc.) In turn a supposed Rock, Paper, Scissors ladder falls short becuase paper doesn't always beat rock. (I also know this isn't 100% true when it comes to Hearthstone but I'm using this as a metaphor most people can understand.)
This also brings about the issue of RPS (Rock, Paper, Scissors) ladder which makes climbing on the ladder (and every mode as a matter of fact) a luck as you try to queue up the right deck vs the right deck in order to climb instead of playing the best/most enjoyable deck and have a shot vs most decks. In my time Old Gods offered the best meta as the top decks weren't as oppressive to unique decks as they are now. Which in turn offered a more enjoyable time and more diversity in terms of casual deck building.
So to wrap this up I believe that Jade Druid (and the jade mechanic as a whole) is so oppressive that not only does it make the meta unhealthy by either forcing the aggro decks to be the best or having a RPS ladder that is unfun to play but also limits deck building by a significant amount by pretty much making all control deck that don't plan on comboing or running amazing midgame drops (Mountain Giant and Drakonid Operative are examples that come to mind). So I do believe this nerf would help the game become better and less restictive.
Or the next expansion offers something control and proves me wrong but who could know what the next one brings.
Or you could adapt to the meta and not play decks that are countered by a popular deck choice. That's a possibility.
Or is that too much work?
So what you're saying is you enjoy the unchecked aggro meta we are in. Trust me its not a reno meta or an rps meta, its aggro and the only reason that is the case is because there aren't good control decks around. Reno decks are controlish, but naturally they aren't as good as a Priest control or a control warrior which tend to hard dominate face decks. In this case there really is nothing taming the meta except this one card.
@FunPolice749; to a certain extent I certainly don't disagree with you... obviously if we did see a shift to a Control meta we'd see Jade become rampant, then see a shift to an Aggro meta again in response. But like I said before, the amount of polarization for both situations where a "hard" counter becomes viable is actually the same both ways; right now Control Warrior eats the two top Aggro decks and Miracle for lunch (something like 70/30), but it does very little to impact the fact that those decks are so fast they're just better to ladder with. None of the R/P/S components always beat each other, but in this case it's more that all three generally keep each other in check but one takes 20 hours less a month to climb a ladder with.
Old Gods was just as oppressive, but people tend to forget that because the meta we're in might be the most diverse/balanced we've had objectively... but it was also the most parasitic to date. Pirates span multiple classes, Kabal decks are all top tier, and Jade decks are all pretty good but feel very same-y in how the Golem generation works. It's no less oppressive to "unique" decks, because those decks always lost to Tier 1 lists anyway; people just have single factions to attribute it to this time so we think we only have 3 or 4 different things to play.
Jade Druid in general is a fine list to have, and I don't actually think it's contributing to the problem as much as people think it is (unless of course you really wanted a Fatigue meta... in which case no thanks). The fatigue immunity is something I'd wager is legitimately not an actual problem, because if you're losing to Jade Druid they're still only summoning 7/7s and 8/8s while you ran out of answers a long time ago. Welcome to Druid vs Control since forever, its ability to bully throughout the midgame has always been hard to handle as Control.
Like you said, Control decks combat it by adding in Midrange creatures. As much as people seem to hate the idea, forcing Control to compromise and make a list less greedy is not the end of the world. Making people put in threats and play proactively is not a crime.
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Yes so, Jade druid is not really a problem obviously so lets just chill for a second and breathe after you just read that title.
What I'd like to propose is a Jade Idol Change
Jade Idol 1 mana
choose 1
Summon a Jade golem
shuffle 3 jade tokens into your deck
Jade token 1 mana
Summon a jade golem
Okay its a very basic change, nothing MAJOR HERP DERP. The change is that you can no longer keep refilling your deck with jade idols to ward off fatigue. You can however essentially gang up your jade idol still which is fair, but at the same time you can not do it again. it also works the same with fandral.
So this way it really makes you decide if you really want that extra golem or you want to save idol for late game when you can put out a ton of jades really quickly. The other change would to make idol a 2 mana card which i think its equally valid but doesn't change the overall issue.
TLDR: Healthy change to reduce how Jade Idol works as a hard check on control decks
No. This caps Druid to 14/14 Jade Golems. It also kills Gadgetzan Auctioneer combo because its now way less reliable.
The really cool thing about Jade Idol is that you have to find a balance. Shuffle too many too early into your deck and you're stuck if you don't draw cards. Shuffle too little and you have too little firepower late game when you need it.
Doing this change would essentially kill Jade Druid. You might think not because they can summon up to 14/14's, but it would be way harder to actually reliably get to it before your opponent finishes you off and even if you get to 12/12 if your opponent negates your board by means such as Eadric its an instant game over. Druid's need that combo because its their only means of killing their opponent before they kill you.
And as for your other comment about fatigue issues, HS isn't dominated by control decks so that shouldn't even be an issue. Aggro, Tempo, and Midrange all still exist...
Sorry but I like Jade Idol as it is
How to fix Jade Druid: Keep aggro alive
The amount of people who complain about aggro don't realize it keeps greed decks in check. If the meta was control-oriented, Jade Druid would be oppressive as fuck. But I guess you can say that for any state of the meta. It's ridiculous how people think one archetype is a problem, when overall they keep each other in check
Another interesting fix would be increasing the mana cost for each subsequent cast, and capping it at 10. That way druid still has infinite golems, and its no longer the single most valuable spell in the game!
Easy N'zoth Quest Priest
Even with the upcoming nerfs, Jade Druid will not dominate the meta, simply because aggro still exist. Pirates will be a bit weaker, but Pirates are FAR from dead. Also with the nerf of Pirate Warrior, other aggressive decks or decks that can easily deal with jade druid are getting stronger. For example Zoolock. It's extremely bad against Pirate Warrior, with the nerf of Small-Time Buccaneer you can now tech more with Mortal Coil against them.
And in my eyes, Zoolock has a better winrate against Jade Druid than any other deck. And Hunter: Pirates destroyed Hunter, but with weaker Pirates, they might get a comeback. And Midrange-Hunter or even Aggro-Hunter might see a comeback too. And even without Pirates, Face-Shaman can still smorc the hell out of Druid.
Jade Druid needs a lot of card draw, and can't play a lot of things until they are at 5-6 mana. And even without Pirates many decks can counter this.
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This game really needs a strong midrange again.
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@FunPolice749; to a certain extent I certainly don't disagree with you... obviously if we did see a shift to a Control meta we'd see Jade become rampant, then see a shift to an Aggro meta again in response. But like I said before, the amount of polarization for both situations where a "hard" counter becomes viable is actually the same both ways; right now Control Warrior eats the two top Aggro decks and Miracle for lunch (something like 70/30), but it does very little to impact the fact that those decks are so fast they're just better to ladder with. None of the R/P/S components always beat each other, but in this case it's more that all three generally keep each other in check but one takes 20 hours less a month to climb a ladder with.
Old Gods was just as oppressive, but people tend to forget that because the meta we're in might be the most diverse/balanced we've had objectively... but it was also the most parasitic to date. Pirates span multiple classes, Kabal decks are all top tier, and Jade decks are all pretty good but feel very same-y in how the Golem generation works. It's no less oppressive to "unique" decks, because those decks always lost to Tier 1 lists anyway; people just have single factions to attribute it to this time so we think we only have 3 or 4 different things to play.
Jade Druid in general is a fine list to have, and I don't actually think it's contributing to the problem as much as people think it is (unless of course you really wanted a Fatigue meta... in which case no thanks). The fatigue immunity is something I'd wager is legitimately not an actual problem, because if you're losing to Jade Druid they're still only summoning 7/7s and 8/8s while you ran out of answers a long time ago. Welcome to Druid vs Control since forever, its ability to bully throughout the midgame has always been hard to handle as Control.
Like you said, Control decks combat it by adding in Midrange creatures. As much as people seem to hate the idea, forcing Control to compromise and make a list less greedy is not the end of the world. Making people put in threats and play proactively is not a crime.
Articles I suggest every player reads to improve at the game;
MTG/Hearthstone biases to avoid
Reframing negative Hearthstone experiences to improve at the game
Who's the Beatdown?
http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/179723-jade-idol-nerf