Damage is much more powerful than healing, so that 2-3 dmg vs. 4 healing is completely balanced.
Not really cause the damage is face only. It doesn't do anything for board state. Heal can be used to heal your own minions or yourself. Armor is a better comparison since it only effects you, and it can be used at full health. However warrior is balanced by having the most cards that enhance its power (shield block, shield slam, bash, etc).
Just looking at the game. 2 armor becomes 4 armor, 2 heal becomes 4 heal, 1 anywhere damage (mage) becomes 2, therefore 2 face damage should become 4.
Damage is much more powerful than healing, so that 2-3 dmg vs. 4 healing is completely balanced.
Not really cause the damage is face only. It doesn't do anything for board state. Heal can be used to heal your own minions or yourself. Armor is a better comparison since it only effects you, and it can be used at full health. However warrior is balanced by having the most cards that enhance its power (shield block, shield slam, bash, etc).
Just looking at the game. 2 armor becomes 4 armor, 2 heal becomes 4 heal, 1 anywhere damage (mage) becomes 2, therefore 2 face damage should become 4.
Why do people always seem to think in doubles? I think it's simply that health gain gets a flat +2 increase and damage gets a flat +1 increase. That way the upgraded hero power makes total sense.
I wouldn't nerf Justicar Trueheart, i'd just create a counter for it: a minion with the battlecry "remove half your opponent's armor".
and who would put a tech card against one class of nine... it would be dead card
Someone who faces a lot of Warriors and who's deck can't win against Control Warrior because of the massive armor stack. You put it just like any other tech card out there (Kezan, Mind Control Tech or Swamp Ooze). Also, it wouldn't be a completely dead card if it had good stats (and it should have good stats given the fact that it would be used only against one class). Armor stacking needs a counter and that would be a balanced one.
Damage is much more powerful than healing, so that 2-3 dmg vs. 4 healing is completely balanced.
Not really cause the damage is face only. It doesn't do anything for board state. Heal can be used to heal your own minions or yourself. Armor is a better comparison since it only effects you, and it can be used at full health. However warrior is balanced by having the most cards that enhance its power (shield block, shield slam, bash, etc).
Just looking at the game. 2 armor becomes 4 armor, 2 heal becomes 4 heal, 1 anywhere damage (mage) becomes 2, therefore 2 face damage should become 4.
Why do people always seem to think in doubles? I think it's simply that health gain gets a flat +2 increase and damage gets a flat +1 increase. That way the upgraded hero power makes total sense.
Cause it makes sense considering how they upgraded everything. Everything was exactly doubled, except ballista shot. Therefore the upgraded hero powers don't make sense as they stand. Coupled with everyone hating on hunters, it seems readily apparent ballista shot was screwed to appease whiners. Even though the dreaded face hunter would never run something so slow.
Justicar has terrible stats, it is dropped to upgrade one's hero power. So it should be a significant upgrade, considering how many times late game you will be able to use your hero power.
Damage is much more powerful than healing, so that 2-3 dmg vs. 4 healing is completely balanced.
Not really cause the damage is face only. It doesn't do anything for board state. Heal can be used to heal your own minions or yourself. Armor is a better comparison since it only effects you, and it can be used at full health. However warrior is balanced by having the most cards that enhance its power (shield block, shield slam, bash, etc).
Just looking at the game. 2 armor becomes 4 armor, 2 heal becomes 4 heal, 1 anywhere damage (mage) becomes 2, therefore 2 face damage should become 4.
Why do people always seem to think in doubles? I think it's simply that health gain gets a flat +2 increase and damage gets a flat +1 increase. That way the upgraded hero power makes total sense.
Cause it makes sense considering how they upgraded everything. Everything was exactly doubled, except ballista shot. Therefore the upgraded hero powers don't make sense as they stand. Coupled with everyone hating on hunters, it seems readily apparent ballista shot was screwed to appease whiners. Even though the dreaded face hunter would never run something so slow.
Justicar has terrible stats, it is dropped to upgrade one's hero power. So it should be a significant upgrade, considering how many times late game you will be able to use your hero power.
I suppose you're right about that. Maybe it's been too long since last I really heard people rant about Face Hunter that I just forgot how rampant they were.
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Damage is much more powerful than healing, so that 2-3 dmg vs. 4 healing is completely balanced.
Not really cause the damage is face only. It doesn't do anything for board state. Heal can be used to heal your own minions or yourself. Armor is a better comparison since it only effects you, and it can be used at full health. However warrior is balanced by having the most cards that enhance its power (shield block, shield slam, bash, etc).
Just looking at the game. 2 armor becomes 4 armor, 2 heal becomes 4 heal, 1 anywhere damage (mage) becomes 2, therefore 2 face damage should become 4.
Why do people always seem to think in doubles? I think it's simply that health gain gets a flat +2 increase and damage gets a flat +1 increase. That way the upgraded hero power makes total sense.
Cause it makes sense considering how they upgraded everything. Everything was exactly doubled, except ballista shot. Therefore the upgraded hero powers don't make sense as they stand. Coupled with everyone hating on hunters, it seems readily apparent ballista shot was screwed to appease whiners. Even though the dreaded face hunter would never run something so slow.
Justicar has terrible stats, it is dropped to upgrade one's hero power. So it should be a significant upgrade, considering how many times late game you will be able to use your hero power.
The comparison doesn't quite work out as well as it seems like it might. The issue with the upgraded hero powers, at least when it comes to Hunters vs. the healing classes, is less how the new hero power operates in a vacuum and more how it works in practice. It's a question of how other classes are going to interact with your hero power. In the case of healing it's fairly straightforward - apply as much pressure as possible and force them on the defensive. I've played a lot of games on both side of the warrior matchup, and it becomes a race to see if you can kill them before they're able to retake the board and get their health out of range of what you have left.
It's quite different on the other side. The options in the game for defense against direct damage are very limited when compared to your options for offense (even outside of just face decks. Offense is viable with any deck that plays minions). When a Warrior uses Justicar, the game is likely to go on for a long time yet. If a Hunter was able to deal 4 with their hero power, the game would be over in a matter of a few turns basically regardless of the board. There are simply too few ways to defend yourself against that kind of consistent damage every turn to make it reasonable.
Damage is much more powerful than healing, so that 2-3 dmg vs. 4 healing is completely balanced.
Not really cause the damage is face only. It doesn't do anything for board state. Heal can be used to heal your own minions or yourself. Armor is a better comparison since it only effects you, and it can be used at full health. However warrior is balanced by having the most cards that enhance its power (shield block, shield slam, bash, etc).
Just looking at the game. 2 armor becomes 4 armor, 2 heal becomes 4 heal, 1 anywhere damage (mage) becomes 2, therefore 2 face damage should become 4.
Why do people always seem to think in doubles? I think it's simply that health gain gets a flat +2 increase and damage gets a flat +1 increase. That way the upgraded hero power makes total sense.
Cause it makes sense considering how they upgraded everything. Everything was exactly doubled, except ballista shot. Therefore the upgraded hero powers don't make sense as they stand. Coupled with everyone hating on hunters, it seems readily apparent ballista shot was screwed to appease whiners. Even though the dreaded face hunter would never run something so slow.
Justicar has terrible stats, it is dropped to upgrade one's hero power. So it should be a significant upgrade, considering how many times late game you will be able to use your hero power.
They made the upgraded hero powers equal to a 1-cost spell.
Mage is now Holy Smite, Hunter is now Sinister Strike, Priest is (weaker than!) Flash Heal, Paladins got Living Roots, Warlock got a 1-cost draw 1 spell that doesn't exist, but is budgeted right. 4 Armor and a 2/2 Weapon are also around 1-cost, and Shamans... we'll ignore Shamans.
4 armor, 1 mana, don't know about that. Shield block is 5 armor and draw a card. Iffy.
As for impact on the game. 4 armor per turn is probably more impactful in control warrior than 4 face damage would be in any hunter. Warrior excels at late game, so while armoring up 4 per turn, he is dropping mega threats. He can remove your big threats with a simple shield slam, or execute. So it is a race in it's own way, you have to deal 4 damage face per turn or your chance of victory will quickly disappear. Hunter drops justicar. So what is he going to do? Hero power for 4 damage....and?
Again if ballista shot was 4 damage, it still wouldn't be played in any hunter deck. Anyways this card isn't talked about too much, so I doubt it gets any change.
4 armor, 1 mana, don't know about that. Shield block is 5 armor and draw a card. Iffy.
As for impact on the game. 4 armor per turn is probably more impactful in control warrior than 4 face damage would be in any hunter. Warrior excels at late game, so while armoring up 4 per turn, he is dropping mega threats. He can remove your big threats with a simple shield slam, or execute. So it is a race in it's own way, you have to deal 4 damage face per turn or your chance of victory will quickly disappear. Hunter drops justicar. So what is he going to do? Hero power for 4 damage....and?
Again if ballista shot was 4 damage, it still wouldn't be played in any hunter deck. Anyways this card isn't talked about too much, so I doubt it gets any change.
Why do i have to keep saying this...
ARMOR HAS ABSOLOTELY NO IMPACT ON THE BOARD
Opponent plays 6 drop.
You kill 6 drop with 3/2 minion
You have board control
Meaning if you had the control of the board (or even if the board was even), you would gain a massive tempo advantage, and then the hero power means NOTHING (otherwise you were probably losing anyway)
He is essentially giving you the board lead.
Also this "Hunter drops justicar. So what is he going to do? Hero power for 4 damage....and?"
Is this not the same for Warrior? He plays Justicar, armors up, AND??!
You have to realize, putting you opponent on a clock (damage to face) is so much better than just trying to slow down the clock (armoring up), therefore, yes, if Hunters did have access to a 4 damage face every turn for 2 mana, you can bet your ass they would use it. (look at Kill Command and how many times during facehunter that goes face.).
Also, because facehunters dont give a flying fuck about the board, they wont mind losing tempo because of Justicar
I feel like this whole argument is based on a misunderstanding of what Hunters are trying to do and what Warriors are trying to do. The comparison of 4 damage vs 4 armor almost doesn't even make sense. Saying that the Hunter wouldn't want the hero power upgrade even at 4 damage because face damage doesn't impact the board ignores what Hunters typically try to do, and how most decks play against them. By turn 6 they're probably going to have board control, and so have room to drop something that would normally lose tempo. If they don't have board control they probably at least have gotten the opposing hero down to around 15 life or so. Scenarios where they neither have board control nor have dealt significant damage are games they were losing anyway.
So you have three scenarios, and in the first two suddenly being able to deal 4 a turn is a huge deal and puts the opponent in an almost impossible position. They're aren't many healing options that can get you out of range of 4 a turn fast enough, and they certainly can't let any minions live since they already know they have to tank 4 to the face every turn for the rest of the game. The upgraded Warrior hero power is good, but it does nothing to influence how quickly you are going to kill your opponent.
There are actually are a lot of healing options, just people don't run many.
Also face damage doesn't impact board either, just like armor. Except shield slam and a bunch of other cards to boost warrior armor exist.
To time is candy, no hunter wouldn't run Justicar. This isn't zoolock, face hunter is hitting the face, and the opponent isn't just letting those charge minions and others just sit there. There won't be board control, unless the opponent is terrible.
I wish this change happened, just so peoples paranoia about ballista 4 damage would show to be completely unfounded. Much like everyone went crazy about Gahzrilla being broken, before it was released.
There are actually are a lot of healing options, just people don't run many.
Also face damage doesn't impact board either, just like armor. Except shield slam and a bunch of other cards to boost warrior armor exist.
To time is candy, no hunter wouldn't run Justicar. This isn't zoolock, face hunter is hitting the face, and the opponent isn't just letting those charge minions and others just sit there. There won't be board control, unless the opponent is terrible.
I wish this change happened, just so peoples paranoia about ballista 4 damage would show to be completely unfounded. Much like everyone went crazy about Gahzrilla being broken, before it was released.
As I said, the Hunter would either A: have board control, or B: have dealt a ton of damage already. In either case buffing your hero power to 4 damage is a good plan, especially since the Justicar itself also has to be killed. If neither A nor B are true the Hunter wasn't winning anyway.
I'm not saying Face Hunter would for sure run Justicar, but it would certainly be a more attractive option than it is now. Saying that the face damage doesn't influence the board in the same way that armoring up doesn't influence the board is misleading because Warriors really need to be influencing the board, where Hunters are less concerned about it.
Warriors really need to be influencing the board, where Hunters are less concerned about it.
Try playing midrange hunter and let your opponent take control of the board and see how it works out.
And there is no way in HELL FH would run justicar,3 or 4 damage. We are talking about running a 6 mana 6/3 that gives you a gradual,slow advantage over many turns on a deck that doesn't want the game to reach turn 6.
Warriors really need to be influencing the board, where Hunters are less concerned about it.
Try playing midrange hunter and let your opponent take control of the board and see how it works out.
And there is no way in HELL FH would run justicar,3 or 4 damage. We are talking about running a 6 mana 6/3 that gives you a gradual,slow advantage over many turns on a deck that doesn't want the game to reach turn 6.
Once again, I am not saying that Hunters don't care about the board state. What I'm saying is that keeping the board clear is a lot more important for a Warrior than it is for any variety of Hunter because the Hunter is usually going to be in a position where the opponent is the one that is forced to make trades. Midrange Hunter plays in a similar fashion to Paladin in that they play efficient early minions that force the opponent to react rather than take the initiative. In such a deck, a hero power that deals 4 is of a great deal of value.
Also yet again, I am not saying Face Hunter would play it. The super face rush version of Hunter doesn't need it, but at the point that you have a 2-mana source of repeatable damage I wouldn't call it "slow" anymore. Just how many turns of that do you expect most classes to survive?
I would say that Justicar Trueheart doesn't need a nerf, it needs a BUFF. Because it's simply unfair how they treated Shaman. Paladin gets his recruits doubled, warrior has his armor doubled, mage [...] doubled. And shaman? OH, I CAN PICK MY OWN TOTEM NOW? THANKS BLIZZURD!
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78.6 % we already have the result
"What is a better weapon? The sharp one your enemies expect, or the blunt one they ignore?" - The Art of Warrior, Chapter 9
Nothing doing, traveler.
very productive poll and thread
"この 先は 暗い 夜道 だけが も 知らない それでも信じて 進むんだ 星が その道 を 少し でも 照らしてくをるのを"
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My mandibles which are capable of pressing down and tearing, my talons which are known to intercept and hold.
4 armor, 1 mana, don't know about that. Shield block is 5 armor and draw a card. Iffy.
As for impact on the game. 4 armor per turn is probably more impactful in control warrior than 4 face damage would be in any hunter. Warrior excels at late game, so while armoring up 4 per turn, he is dropping mega threats. He can remove your big threats with a simple shield slam, or execute. So it is a race in it's own way, you have to deal 4 damage face per turn or your chance of victory will quickly disappear. Hunter drops justicar. So what is he going to do? Hero power for 4 damage....and?
Again if ballista shot was 4 damage, it still wouldn't be played in any hunter deck. Anyways this card isn't talked about too much, so I doubt it gets any change.
Why the armor hate? Justicar is most OP for paladin anyway. Should be nerfed to "summon one-and-a-half 1/1 Silver Hand Recruits."
I feel like this whole argument is based on a misunderstanding of what Hunters are trying to do and what Warriors are trying to do. The comparison of 4 damage vs 4 armor almost doesn't even make sense. Saying that the Hunter wouldn't want the hero power upgrade even at 4 damage because face damage doesn't impact the board ignores what Hunters typically try to do, and how most decks play against them. By turn 6 they're probably going to have board control, and so have room to drop something that would normally lose tempo. If they don't have board control they probably at least have gotten the opposing hero down to around 15 life or so. Scenarios where they neither have board control nor have dealt significant damage are games they were losing anyway.
So you have three scenarios, and in the first two suddenly being able to deal 4 a turn is a huge deal and puts the opponent in an almost impossible position. They're aren't many healing options that can get you out of range of 4 a turn fast enough, and they certainly can't let any minions live since they already know they have to tank 4 to the face every turn for the rest of the game. The upgraded Warrior hero power is good, but it does nothing to influence how quickly you are going to kill your opponent.
Nothing doing, traveler.
There are actually are a lot of healing options, just people don't run many.
Also face damage doesn't impact board either, just like armor. Except shield slam and a bunch of other cards to boost warrior armor exist.
To time is candy, no hunter wouldn't run Justicar. This isn't zoolock, face hunter is hitting the face, and the opponent isn't just letting those charge minions and others just sit there. There won't be board control, unless the opponent is terrible.
I wish this change happened, just so peoples paranoia about ballista 4 damage would show to be completely unfounded. Much like everyone went crazy about Gahzrilla being broken, before it was released.
Nothing doing, traveler.
Nothing doing, traveler.
I would say that Justicar Trueheart doesn't need a nerf, it needs a BUFF. Because it's simply unfair how they treated Shaman. Paladin gets his recruits doubled, warrior has his armor doubled, mage [...] doubled. And shaman? OH, I CAN PICK MY OWN TOTEM NOW? THANKS BLIZZURD!
Let's go, smokes
I think tank up needs a nerf