If secret passage rogue would be tier 1 deck at legend rank i would understand the nerf, but its tier 2 deck that gets farmed at legend rank by atleast 4-5 other decks, if i get any rogue enemy i know that its a big chance its pretty fast win for me, so why nerf a tier 2 class to make it unplayable?
I think blizzard have made it pretty clear before that the win rate of a deck isn't the only consideration for nerfs and have also traditionally changed cards because of their 'feel'. I think without taking the factor of how people feel about the game they just played into consideration, regardless of win loss or draw, Blizzard would have a had a lot less popular game now than they have. I've no idea what tier the SP is and I don't check percentages, but I've played enough games against rogue to know that when they find 12+ dmg with SP, and there's a good chance you got hit for 10-20 by turn 5, it feels like shit. I'm pretty confident this is happening on a regular basis, and it isn't just 1 or 2 people who get directed to the salt thread. Blizzard used to care about games feeling like shit, regardless of the win rate of a deck. Now I'm pretty confident they don't, and much like they did with WoW and Diablo they're now playing to the lowest common denominator who just want to see big numbers are pretty explosions.
If secret passage rogue would be tier 1 deck at legend rank i would understand the nerf, but its tier 2 deck that gets farmed at legend rank by atleast 4-5 other decks, if i get any rogue enemy i know that its a big chance its pretty fast win for me, so why nerf a tier 2 class to make it unplayable?
I think blizzard have made it pretty clear before that the win rate of a deck isn't the only consideration for nerfs and have also traditionally changed cards because of their 'feel'. I think without taking the factor of how people feel about the game they just played into consideration, regardless of win loss or draw, Blizzard would have a had a lot less popular game now than they have. I've no idea what tier the SP is and I don't check percentages, but I've played enough games against rogue to know that when they find 12+ dmg with SP, and there's a good chance you got hit for 10-20 by turn 5, it feels like shit. I'm pretty confident this is happening on a regular basis, and it isn't just 1 or 2 people who get directed to the salt thread. Blizzard used to care about games feeling like shit, regardless of the win rate of a deck. Now I'm pretty confident they don't, and much like they did with WoW and Diablo they're now playing to the lowest common denominator who just want to see big numbers are pretty explosions.
Far more people are directed to the salt thread because of Priest, Face Hunter and Druid, and yet those are not nerfed, and most likely will not. Maybe Druid. Maybe.
If nerfs happened on feelings without consideration for winrates and such, specially ones outcrying during the short time the deck is good and a meta that haven't even had a week to adjust, and at low ranks, we would have a pretty bland game, with most likely Priest and Hunter forever dead.
People were crying for freaking Paladin nerfs on the first two weeks of the expansion, for example. People still whine about Resurrect Priest despite being a Tier 5 deck. Heck, there's right now a thread on the first page on the general discussion page about nerfing Paladin that was created 4 days ago.
It's an Aggro deck with reach and burn, just like Face Hunter, who by the way, kills people even faster and more consistently, including the Aggro Rogue itself.
Now you said you played a lot of games against Rogue, I'm also curious to know which decks, at what rank and if you could share replays of those matches, since you are claiming so firmly about the feels, the power and the certainty of nerfing it.
Let's see if the problem is really just Secret Passage.
I'm not going to sugarcoat it; the problem is pretty blatantly secret passage and the power of rogue in general. If you look over at Vicious Syndicate, you'll see that 21% of all legend and 24.5% of top 1K legend is rogue. Both are over double the 10% average for all classes. Of those rogues, well over 95% run 2x Secret Passage and it's one of the highest winrate cards in the list. Aggro rogue in particular has only 2 clearly unfavorable matchups: cyclone mage and face hunter. All of these indicators at these levels have, historically, led to nerfs. I have no doubt secret passage will, and should, be one of them.
If secret passage rogue would be tier 1 deck at legend rank i would understand the nerf, but its tier 2 deck that gets farmed at legend rank by atleast 4-5 other decks, if i get any rogue enemy i know that its a big chance its pretty fast win for me, so why nerf a tier 2 class to make it unplayable?
I think blizzard have made it pretty clear before that the win rate of a deck isn't the only consideration for nerfs and have also traditionally changed cards because of their 'feel'. I think without taking the factor of how people feel about the game they just played into consideration, regardless of win loss or draw, Blizzard would have a had a lot less popular game now than they have. I've no idea what tier the SP is and I don't check percentages, but I've played enough games against rogue to know that when they find 12+ dmg with SP, and there's a good chance you got hit for 10-20 by turn 5, it feels like shit. I'm pretty confident this is happening on a regular basis, and it isn't just 1 or 2 people who get directed to the salt thread. Blizzard used to care about games feeling like shit, regardless of the win rate of a deck. Now I'm pretty confident they don't, and much like they did with WoW and Diablo they're now playing to the lowest common denominator who just want to see big numbers are pretty explosions.
Far more people are directed to the salt thread because of Priest, Face Hunter and Druid, and yet those are not nerfed, and most likely will not. Maybe Druid. Maybe.
If nerfs happened on feelings without consideration for winrates and such, specially ones outcrying during the short time the deck is good and a meta that haven't even had a week to adjust, and at low ranks, we would have a pretty bland game, with most likely Priest and Hunter forever dead.
People were crying for freaking Paladin nerfs on the first two weeks of the expansion, for example. People still whine about Resurrect Priest despite being a Tier 5 deck. Heck, there's right now a thread on the first page on the general discussion page about nerfing Paladin that was created 4 days ago.
It's an Aggro deck with reach and burn, just like Face Hunter, who by the way, kills people even faster and more consistently, including the Aggro Rogue itself.
Now you said you played a lot of games against Rogue, I'm also curious to know which decks, at what rank and if you could share replays of those matches, since you are claiming so firmly about the feels, the power and the certainty of nerfing it.
Let's see if the problem is really just Secret Passage.
Not interested in getting into a debate with someone who obviously masturbates over his legend rank.
If secret passage rogue would be tier 1 deck at legend rank i would understand the nerf, but its tier 2 deck that gets farmed at legend rank by atleast 4-5 other decks, if i get any rogue enemy i know that its a big chance its pretty fast win for me, so why nerf a tier 2 class to make it unplayable?
I think blizzard have made it pretty clear before that the win rate of a deck isn't the only consideration for nerfs and have also traditionally changed cards because of their 'feel'. I think without taking the factor of how people feel about the game they just played into consideration, regardless of win loss or draw, Blizzard would have a had a lot less popular game now than they have. I've no idea what tier the SP is and I don't check percentages, but I've played enough games against rogue to know that when they find 12+ dmg with SP, and there's a good chance you got hit for 10-20 by turn 5, it feels like shit. I'm pretty confident this is happening on a regular basis, and it isn't just 1 or 2 people who get directed to the salt thread. Blizzard used to care about games feeling like shit, regardless of the win rate of a deck. Now I'm pretty confident they don't, and much like they did with WoW and Diablo they're now playing to the lowest common denominator who just want to see big numbers are pretty explosions.
Far more people are directed to the salt thread because of Priest, Face Hunter and Druid, and yet those are not nerfed, and most likely will not. Maybe Druid. Maybe.
If nerfs happened on feelings without consideration for winrates and such, specially ones outcrying during the short time the deck is good and a meta that haven't even had a week to adjust, and at low ranks, we would have a pretty bland game, with most likely Priest and Hunter forever dead.
People were crying for freaking Paladin nerfs on the first two weeks of the expansion, for example. People still whine about Resurrect Priest despite being a Tier 5 deck. Heck, there's right now a thread on the first page on the general discussion page about nerfing Paladin that was created 4 days ago.
It's an Aggro deck with reach and burn, just like Face Hunter, who by the way, kills people even faster and more consistently, including the Aggro Rogue itself.
Now you said you played a lot of games against Rogue, I'm also curious to know which decks, at what rank and if you could share replays of those matches, since you are claiming so firmly about the feels, the power and the certainty of nerfing it.
Let's see if the problem is really just Secret Passage.
Not interested in getting into a debate with someone who obviously masturbates over his legend rank.
I was just trying to be constructive. You said the devs are caving to the "lowest common denominator", but listening to players (not saying you) crying for nerfs while losing on Silver-Platinum to said deck... That would be caving in to the "lowest common denominator".
I don't doubt down the road the card might be nerfed, but crying for nerfs now that the deck only has a week of popularization pretty much, with already 4 unfavourable matchups, and 3 others that can also become unfavourable, is irrational and non-productive.
I already said: Face Hunter, Cyclone Mage, Soul DH and Druid are favoured against it. Warrior, Priest and Paladin can change pieces in their decks to improve the matchup. Gala Warlock have decent tools though it still deals too much damage to itself. There are tools available to tinker with. The meta is already adapting to it.
And Face Hunter kills people even faster (including the Rogue itself). Nerf Rogue and then people will start crying how "feels bad" Face Hunter is as well.
I don't doubt down the road the card might be nerfed, but crying for nerfs now that the deck only has a week of popularization pretty much, with already 4 unfavourable matchups, and 3 others that can also become unfavourable, is irrational and non-productive.
Sometimes a card should be nerfed because it's OP, even if the decks it are in aren't. Secret passage is gonna be in standard for a while and I can guarantee it's going to cause more problems.
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I think blizzard have made it pretty clear before that the win rate of a deck isn't the only consideration for nerfs and have also traditionally changed cards because of their 'feel'. I think without taking the factor of how people feel about the game they just played into consideration, regardless of win loss or draw, Blizzard would have a had a lot less popular game now than they have. I've no idea what tier the SP is and I don't check percentages, but I've played enough games against rogue to know that when they find 12+ dmg with SP, and there's a good chance you got hit for 10-20 by turn 5, it feels like shit. I'm pretty confident this is happening on a regular basis, and it isn't just 1 or 2 people who get directed to the salt thread. Blizzard used to care about games feeling like shit, regardless of the win rate of a deck. Now I'm pretty confident they don't, and much like they did with WoW and Diablo they're now playing to the lowest common denominator who just want to see big numbers are pretty explosions.
Far more people are directed to the salt thread because of Priest, Face Hunter and Druid, and yet those are not nerfed, and most likely will not. Maybe Druid. Maybe.
If nerfs happened on feelings without consideration for winrates and such, specially ones outcrying during the short time the deck is good and a meta that haven't even had a week to adjust, and at low ranks, we would have a pretty bland game, with most likely Priest and Hunter forever dead.
People were crying for freaking Paladin nerfs on the first two weeks of the expansion, for example. People still whine about Resurrect Priest despite being a Tier 5 deck. Heck, there's right now a thread on the first page on the general discussion page about nerfing Paladin that was created 4 days ago.
It's an Aggro deck with reach and burn, just like Face Hunter, who by the way, kills people even faster and more consistently, including the Aggro Rogue itself.
Now you said you played a lot of games against Rogue, I'm also curious to know which decks, at what rank and if you could share replays of those matches, since you are claiming so firmly about the feels, the power and the certainty of nerfing it.
Let's see if the problem is really just Secret Passage.
I'm not going to sugarcoat it; the problem is pretty blatantly secret passage and the power of rogue in general. If you look over at Vicious Syndicate, you'll see that 21% of all legend and 24.5% of top 1K legend is rogue. Both are over double the 10% average for all classes. Of those rogues, well over 95% run 2x Secret Passage and it's one of the highest winrate cards in the list. Aggro rogue in particular has only 2 clearly unfavorable matchups: cyclone mage and face hunter. All of these indicators at these levels have, historically, led to nerfs. I have no doubt secret passage will, and should, be one of them.
Not interested in getting into a debate with someone who obviously masturbates over his legend rank.
I was just trying to be constructive. You said the devs are caving to the "lowest common denominator", but listening to players (not saying you) crying for nerfs while losing on Silver-Platinum to said deck... That would be caving in to the "lowest common denominator".
I don't doubt down the road the card might be nerfed, but crying for nerfs now that the deck only has a week of popularization pretty much, with already 4 unfavourable matchups, and 3 others that can also become unfavourable, is irrational and non-productive.
I already said: Face Hunter, Cyclone Mage, Soul DH and Druid are favoured against it. Warrior, Priest and Paladin can change pieces in their decks to improve the matchup. Gala Warlock have decent tools though it still deals too much damage to itself. There are tools available to tinker with. The meta is already adapting to it.
And Face Hunter kills people even faster (including the Rogue itself). Nerf Rogue and then people will start crying how "feels bad" Face Hunter is as well.
Sometimes a card should be nerfed because it's OP, even if the decks it are in aren't. Secret passage is gonna be in standard for a while and I can guarantee it's going to cause more problems.