Secret Passage in my opinion is not a problematic card. I personally love this card.
I agree with this guy.
Every class has stuff that someone, somewhere is going to hate. Why can't we all just stop complaining and enjoy things?
"bUt itS nOt FUn tO plAy aGaInSt"
Everything your opponent does that puts them ahead in the game or sets up lethal is not fun. You feel powerless to stop it, it's a bad feeling, but it's part of the game. That's how games are won and lost, at some point you or your opponent will make a play that can't be answered and it will create the inevitable outcome. If Secret Passage is that card, you might think it's too strong. But think about that time you set up lethal on your opponent. They might have cursed the last card you played as "too strong". But is it?
1 mana, draw 5, then replenish cards at the end of your turn? This is easily the strongest draw engine the game has ever seen. It is limited to aggro, so there's that.
The Soularium is legendary with way worse effect and is game breaking in several decks...
Thank you for remembering that. The Soularium was a card that saw a lot of play in Zoolock. It couldn't be played alongside expensive cards because of its drawback but Zoo only played cheap cards anyway. If Secret Passage drew 3 cards, it would still be a stronger version of The Soularium because it has no drawbacks whatsoever. And they can use two copies of it. Also, card draw is supposed to be one of the weaknesses of decks that carelessly throw cards away (face decks). They are supposed to run out of steam but this card denies this. Instead, they are rewarded for just throwing everything at you because this card will always find what they need to close the game. How is this supposed to be balanced?
Secret Passage in my opinion is not a problematic card. I personally love this card.
I agree with this guy.
Every class has stuff that someone, somewhere is going to hate. Why can't we all just stop complaining and enjoy things?
"bUt itS nOt FUn tO plAy aGaInSt"
Everything your opponent does that puts them ahead in the game or sets up lethal is not fun. You feel powerless to stop it, it's a bad feeling, but it's part of the game. That's how games are won and lost, at some point you or your opponent will make a play that can't be answered and it will create the inevitable outcome. If Secret Passage is that card, you might think it's too strong. But think about that time you set up lethal on your opponent. They might have cursed the last card you played as "too strong". But is it?
Let's deal with it and move on.
Yes, people hating a card isn't an indicator that it is broken but the inverse is also true. Just because you like it that doesn't mean it's balanced. Now, let's make a comparison. Fungal Fortunes was a 2 mana draw 3 cards with a drawback and it got nerfed. And what people hated in Spell Druid wasn't this early game cycle tool but the Kael'thas and Mountseller turns. Now, tell me how a 1 mana draw 5 cards without any drawbacks that rewards careless and thoughtless gameplay is balanced.
I would not shed a tear if it's nerfed. A few times now I've been beaten because they find both their eviscerates, to finish me off. This is just one of many cards that need a look into currently in any case.
Yes, i hope so. Aggro Rogue is the best deck in the game right now and their game plan consists exclusively of ignoring everything you do and going face with all burn in the world. Most of their cards are direct damage and Secret Passage gives them way too much consistency. They are always guaranteed to find the damage they need to kill you because of that. The only other deck that counters them is... Face Hunter. Yep. Face Hunter beats them in a race for damage because of Explosive Trap. Even Priest and Warrior are struggling to keep up against the amount of direct damage these decks can output.
I was considering leaving standard and going for Wild again but i recently read the TempoStorm meta report for Wild and it seems that Kingsbane Rogue and Darkglare Zoolock are ruling the meta now. Kingsbane was dead a few weeks ago. What brought it back to life? Secret Passage. Oh well. Back to BG only.
It's far from the best deck or we would see more of it. Right now all I see is highlander paladin and pure paladin decks at diamond ranks.
Besides, all you need is a little healing or armor and they fizzle out. Taunts won't do it because they can bounce them back or destroy them. You need armor or healing. Just keep up with the damage or at least try to and you win.
Yes, i hope so. Aggro Rogue is the best deck in the game right now and their game plan consists exclusively of ignoring everything you do and going face with all burn in the world. Most of their cards are direct damage and Secret Passage gives them way too much consistency. They are always guaranteed to find the damage they need to kill you because of that. The only other deck that counters them is... Face Hunter. Yep. Face Hunter beats them in a race for damage because of Explosive Trap. Even Priest and Warrior are struggling to keep up against the amount of direct damage these decks can output.
I was considering leaving standard and going for Wild again but i recently read the TempoStorm meta report for Wild and it seems that Kingsbane Rogue and Darkglare Zoolock are ruling the meta now. Kingsbane was dead a few weeks ago. What brought it back to life? Secret Passage. Oh well. Back to BG only.
It's far from the best deck or we would see more of it. Right now all I see is highlander paladin and pure paladin decks at diamond ranks.
Besides, all you need is a little healing or armor and they fizzle out. Taunts won't do it because they can bounce them back or destroy them. You need armor or healing. Just keep up with the damage or at least try to and you win.
What i'm saying comes from statistical analysis made by Vicious Syndicate in their latest meta report. You are not seeing a lot of them but each player experience their own little pocket meta that can change everyday. I have never ever played against a Highlander Paladin but i have seen enough Libram Paladins. I was mostly seeing Druids early in the expansion but now every other matchup is Face Rogue. And a little healing or a little armor aren't enough to deal with them. They are ultra fast and deal tons of damage before you can even draw any armor or healing card. The Warrior and Priest hero power are a joke compared to the damage they can dish out. And Secret Passage is always there to give them more damage after they have thrown their whole hand in your face. They don't give you any time to stabilize. That's why Face Hunter is the strongest counter to them. The best way to deal with them is to win a race of face damage. And i don't find that kind of playstyle enjoyable in any way.
It is strong, and probably will end up nerfed, but I agree with what someone said earlier:It'll be outrageous if it ends up nerfed before Overgrowth/Guardian Animals and/or Lightning Bloom... heck even stuff like Apotheosis, Bomb mechanic and Turtle Mage feel way more toxic and frustrating than Secret Passage.
If Aggro DH was mostly weak because of low HP minions, Aggro Rogue's are even weaker, and there are plenty of decks already targeting it very efficiently. The reason Passage might not be nerfed is there is plenty of room in the meta to dunk on the deck.
It is strong, and probably will end up nerfed, but I agree with what someone said earlier:It'll be outrageous if it ends up nerfed before Overgrowth/Guardian Animals and/or Lightning Bloom... heck even stuff like Apotheosis, Bomb mechanic and Turtle Mage feel way more toxic and frustrating than Secret Passage.
If Aggro DH was mostly weak because of low HP minions, Aggro Rogue's are even weaker, and there are plenty of decks already targeting it very efficiently. The reason Passage might not be nerfed is there is plenty of room in the meta to dunk on the deck.
The only card that lets rogue play and climb at legend rank is secret passage if that gets nerfed rogue wont see much play at legend rank because other classses are already stronger than rogue such as priest, paladin or warrior, or even druid.
You're spot on, 0 intelligence decks aren't new and have always been annoying, but now in combination with the power level of the cards they run and the speed they kill you it's just reaching a critical mass. I can remember hating Hadronox druid back in the day so much, but at least you had tools, and critically, time to try and come back. These days it's just unanswerable fiesta rng or death by turn 6.
The Soularium is legendary with way worse effect and is game breaking in several decks...
Thank you for remembering that. The Soularium was a card that saw a lot of play in Zoolock. It couldn't be played alongside expensive cards because of its drawback but Zoo only played cheap cards anyway. If Secret Passage drew 3 cards, it would still be a stronger version of The Soularium because it has no drawbacks whatsoever. And they can use two copies of it. Also, card draw is supposed to be one of the weaknesses of decks that carelessly throw cards away (face decks). They are supposed to run out of steam but this card denies this. Instead, they are rewarded for just throwing everything at you because this card will always find what they need to close the game. How is this supposed to be balanced?
Secret Passage in my opinion is not a problematic card. I personally love this card.
I agree with this guy.
Every class has stuff that someone, somewhere is going to hate. Why can't we all just stop complaining and enjoy things?
"bUt itS nOt FUn tO plAy aGaInSt"
Everything your opponent does that puts them ahead in the game or sets up lethal is not fun. You feel powerless to stop it, it's a bad feeling, but it's part of the game. That's how games are won and lost, at some point you or your opponent will make a play that can't be answered and it will create the inevitable outcome. If Secret Passage is that card, you might think it's too strong. But think about that time you set up lethal on your opponent. They might have cursed the last card you played as "too strong". But is it?
Let's deal with it and move on.
Yes, people hating a card isn't an indicator that it is broken but the inverse is also true. Just because you like it that doesn't mean it's balanced. Now, let's make a comparison. Fungal Fortunes was a 2 mana draw 3 cards with a drawback and it got nerfed. And what people hated in Spell Druid wasn't this early game cycle tool but the Kael'thas and Mountseller turns. Now, tell me how a 1 mana draw 5 cards without any drawbacks that rewards careless and thoughtless gameplay is balanced.
Sure that it is a strong card, very strong no doubt. But It is also a fair card in rogue. Rogue has no heal, no taunt, no board clears, and its play style is only based on tempo generally. So having a card that allow him to not die for inconsistency, (quite unfair in a rogue class, since he should be able to draw, because it is one of his strongest points) it is fair.
Mate, you can try and justify it as much as you want, 1 mana draw 5 with no downside is in no conceivable way a fair card. If heros had 40 hp or decks were made up of 40 cards then maybe. Why people are so blinkered and tied to their own preferred class while not caring about the overall health of the game boggles me.
It's not 1-mana draw 5 exactly. It is 1-mana temporarily replace your hand with 5 new cards. Makes a big difference that you cannot play any cards initially in your hand at the end of your turn...It is an interesting and unique effect, maybe a bit OP and could see a nerf to draw 4 in the future, but it is not a 1-mana draw 5 at any rate...
heck even stuff like Apotheosis, Bomb mechanic and Turtle Mage feel way more toxic and frustrating than Secret Passage.
Did you really just say that apotheosis is more toxic than Secret passage...?? I dunno what game you're playing but it's clearly not the same one as me.
Secret Passage is fine, specially in the sense it enables different Rogue archetypes that aren't draw 0 mana cards and spam lackey RNG bullshit.
The deck is still very unfavourable against Guardian Druid, Face Hunter, Soul Demon Hunter and Cyclone Mage.
Paladin, Warrior, Priest can all adjust to it pretty well too.
People were crying about Paladin and Druid nerfs, some time passed, deck adjustments were made (Kael nerf barely did anything to the archetype, btw) and turns out huge nerfs to them weren't needed, though comprehensibly Druid can still feel total bullshit.
If secret passage rogue would be tier 1 deck at legend rank i would understand the nerf, but its tier 2 deck that gets farmed at legend rank by atleast 4-5 other decks, if i get any rogue enemy i know that its a big chance its pretty fast win for me, so why nerf a tier 2 class to make it unplayable?
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pirate warrior, token druid, jade druid, pretty easy to play decks from a while ago. 0 intelligence decks are not new
I loved jade druid btw (:
I agree with this guy.
Every class has stuff that someone, somewhere is going to hate. Why can't we all just stop complaining and enjoy things?
"bUt itS nOt FUn tO plAy aGaInSt"
Everything your opponent does that puts them ahead in the game or sets up lethal is not fun. You feel powerless to stop it, it's a bad feeling, but it's part of the game. That's how games are won and lost, at some point you or your opponent will make a play that can't be answered and it will create the inevitable outcome. If Secret Passage is that card, you might think it's too strong. But think about that time you set up lethal on your opponent. They might have cursed the last card you played as "too strong". But is it?
Let's deal with it and move on.
I actually love the card. I think other classes just need more tools to compensate. I love how rogue plays and the choices needed.
The Soularium is legendary with way worse effect and is game breaking in several decks...
1 mana, draw 5, then replenish cards at the end of your turn? This is easily the strongest draw engine the game has ever seen. It is limited to aggro, so there's that.
Thank you for remembering that. The Soularium was a card that saw a lot of play in Zoolock. It couldn't be played alongside expensive cards because of its drawback but Zoo only played cheap cards anyway. If Secret Passage drew 3 cards, it would still be a stronger version of The Soularium because it has no drawbacks whatsoever. And they can use two copies of it. Also, card draw is supposed to be one of the weaknesses of decks that carelessly throw cards away (face decks). They are supposed to run out of steam but this card denies this. Instead, they are rewarded for just throwing everything at you because this card will always find what they need to close the game. How is this supposed to be balanced?
Yes, people hating a card isn't an indicator that it is broken but the inverse is also true. Just because you like it that doesn't mean it's balanced. Now, let's make a comparison. Fungal Fortunes was a 2 mana draw 3 cards with a drawback and it got nerfed. And what people hated in Spell Druid wasn't this early game cycle tool but the Kael'thas and Mountseller turns. Now, tell me how a 1 mana draw 5 cards without any drawbacks that rewards careless and thoughtless gameplay is balanced.
I would not shed a tear if it's nerfed. A few times now I've been beaten because they find both their eviscerates, to finish me off. This is just one of many cards that need a look into currently in any case.
It's far from the best deck or we would see more of it. Right now all I see is highlander paladin and pure paladin decks at diamond ranks.
Besides, all you need is a little healing or armor and they fizzle out. Taunts won't do it because they can bounce them back or destroy them. You need armor or healing. Just keep up with the damage or at least try to and you win.
What i'm saying comes from statistical analysis made by Vicious Syndicate in their latest meta report. You are not seeing a lot of them but each player experience their own little pocket meta that can change everyday. I have never ever played against a Highlander Paladin but i have seen enough Libram Paladins. I was mostly seeing Druids early in the expansion but now every other matchup is Face Rogue. And a little healing or a little armor aren't enough to deal with them. They are ultra fast and deal tons of damage before you can even draw any armor or healing card. The Warrior and Priest hero power are a joke compared to the damage they can dish out. And Secret Passage is always there to give them more damage after they have thrown their whole hand in your face. They don't give you any time to stabilize. That's why Face Hunter is the strongest counter to them. The best way to deal with them is to win a race of face damage. And i don't find that kind of playstyle enjoyable in any way.
It is strong, and probably will end up nerfed, but I agree with what someone said earlier:It'll be outrageous if it ends up nerfed before Overgrowth/Guardian Animals and/or Lightning Bloom... heck even stuff like Apotheosis, Bomb mechanic and Turtle Mage feel way more toxic and frustrating than Secret Passage.
If Aggro DH was mostly weak because of low HP minions, Aggro Rogue's are even weaker, and there are plenty of decks already targeting it very efficiently. The reason Passage might not be nerfed is there is plenty of room in the meta to dunk on the deck.
C mon bro.
The only card that lets rogue play and climb at legend rank is secret passage if that gets nerfed rogue wont see much play at legend rank because other classses are already stronger than rogue such as priest, paladin or warrior, or even druid.
You're spot on, 0 intelligence decks aren't new and have always been annoying, but now in combination with the power level of the cards they run and the speed they kill you it's just reaching a critical mass. I can remember hating Hadronox druid back in the day so much, but at least you had tools, and critically, time to try and come back. These days it's just unanswerable fiesta rng or death by turn 6.
Sure that it is a strong card, very strong no doubt. But It is also a fair card in rogue. Rogue has no heal, no taunt, no board clears, and its play style is only based on tempo generally. So having a card that allow him to not die for inconsistency, (quite unfair in a rogue class, since he should be able to draw, because it is one of his strongest points) it is fair.
It is a very strong card and fair.
Mate, you can try and justify it as much as you want, 1 mana draw 5 with no downside is in no conceivable way a fair card. If heros had 40 hp or decks were made up of 40 cards then maybe. Why people are so blinkered and tied to their own preferred class while not caring about the overall health of the game boggles me.
It's not 1-mana draw 5 exactly. It is 1-mana temporarily replace your hand with 5 new cards. Makes a big difference that you cannot play any cards initially in your hand at the end of your turn...It is an interesting and unique effect, maybe a bit OP and could see a nerf to draw 4 in the future, but it is not a 1-mana draw 5 at any rate...
This is true. It is 1-mana draw 5 for aggro decks built entirely out of 1 and 2 drops. But it's much worse for any other type of deck.
Did you really just say that apotheosis is more toxic than Secret passage...?? I dunno what game you're playing but it's clearly not the same one as me.
Secret Passage is fine, specially in the sense it enables different Rogue archetypes that aren't draw 0 mana cards and spam lackey RNG bullshit.
The deck is still very unfavourable against Guardian Druid, Face Hunter, Soul Demon Hunter and Cyclone Mage.
Paladin, Warrior, Priest can all adjust to it pretty well too.
People were crying about Paladin and Druid nerfs, some time passed, deck adjustments were made (Kael nerf barely did anything to the archetype, btw) and turns out huge nerfs to them weren't needed, though comprehensibly Druid can still feel total bullshit.
If secret passage rogue would be tier 1 deck at legend rank i would understand the nerf, but its tier 2 deck that gets farmed at legend rank by atleast 4-5 other decks, if i get any rogue enemy i know that its a big chance its pretty fast win for me, so why nerf a tier 2 class to make it unplayable?