Lets do a little math here (assuming that mages use the "all in" board approach on turn 6):
On turn 6 to turn 7, there are a few possible outcomes:
1. Mage does a truly all-in setup, consisting of high damage with a high residual creature left on the board. For benefit of the doubt, I am going to assume that the Mage has the coin. The most insane play I can think of would be Mana Wyrm x2, Coin, BT, Frostbolt, Icelance x2, and Mirror Image, causing 14 damage to the opponent while leaving 2 6/3 Wyrms protected by 2 taunt minions. This is probably the worst case scenario for an enemy player going into turn 7, assuming that the mage is holding a flamestrike and the enemy isn't a hunter with UTH and Dire Wolves. The issue that I have with this scenario is the assumption that a mage would be holding those 9 cards on turn 6 and still have full board control. If they do, you probably deserve the loss anyways (although this scenario is in fact possible, as I have a deck designed to do exactly this).
2. Mage does a strong position setup on turn 6, using large critter with the expectation to future buff while threatening the flamestrike. The problem with this scenario is that the mage may get 2 critters on the board, and if you are worried about crowd controlling 2 critters on turn 6 because of a mage, you are probably in trouble already.
3. Mage truly "swarms" the board, placing 7 1 cost minions (assuming, once again, the mage has the coin). The most efficient group of critters I can think of is 2 Mana Wyrms, Coin, 1 Leper Gnome, 2 Boars and 2 Sergeants, rendering a grand total of 6 damage that turn with a potential of 10 damage on turn 7 if not reacted to. This once again assumes that the mage was able to collect 9 cards while maintaining board control (this scenario is more likely than scenario 1, but it has less impact).
In scenario 1 and 3, board control is highly unlikely. In scenario 2, most classes have a method to deal with a single large critter, and the classes that struggle in that regard have a way to buff their hero's attack power to kill it directly. In all of the scenarios, there are still cards that could come out and deal enough damage on their turn 6/7 to negate the move.
A far better option for a mage is to tease out CC, hold 2 flamestrikes, and then on turn 8 drop Ragnaros. I am much more afraid of a mage if I don't see Flamestrike on turn 7, and I even bait it out sometimes to ensure I can handle larger threats if I am forced out of CC early.
Hearthstats shows how much more Mages are picked than anything else: http://hearthstats.net/reports/jan/index.html - but no full percentages. As Go4dakill says, though, even after that - more games will be with Mages because they stay alive longer.
And because they win more you're likely to get them as you win more.
Off-topic: I'm always surprised by Hunter win rate in those arena stats trackers. The latest 5 runs of Hunter for me contain 3 12-x runs, a 10-3 run and a 4-3 run. I just don't see how in the world people are doing so poorly with Hunter when the combo's they can pull off right now are simply down right absurd.
5 arena runs is not a meaningful sample.
The reason Hunter performs poorly in large samples is because in arena there is only 1 draft to aim for: aggro combo.
Fail to draft the key aggro & combo cards, and Hunter performs very poorly. UTH in particular is the linchpin of all arena Hunter decks, without it the class is well below average.
I think that's what Trump etc. say - like priest can do well if you get the combos - but you can't expect to get the combos even 50% of the time - so go something more consistent if you can. Highmanes are rare and fire eles are basic, right?
4 arena runs tonight. 12 loses to Mages with either 3+ Flamestrikes or 3+ Fireballs/polymorph. I lost all my gold thanks to a glaring issue in the game Blizzard refuses to address. I'm done with this game until an expansion comes out. Cya in a few months.
4 arena runs tonight. 12 loses to Mages with either 3+ Flamestrikes or 3+ Fireballs/polymorph. I lost all my gold thanks to a glaring issue in the game Blizzard refuses to address. I'm done with this game until an expansion comes out. Cya in a few months.
Hearthstats shows how much more Mages are picked than anything else: http://hearthstats.net/reports/jan/index.html - but no full percentages. As Go4dakill says, though, even after that - more games will be with Mages because they stay alive longer.
And because they win more you're likely to get them as you win more.
Off-topic: I'm always surprised by Hunter win rate in those arena stats trackers. The latest 5 runs of Hunter for me contain 3 12-x runs, a 10-3 run and a 4-3 run. I just don't see how in the world people are doing so poorly with Hunter when the combo's they can pull off right now are simply down right absurd.
Wait a minute - based on those runs you're awesome at arena. Care to do some coaching sometime? (for free?? ;) )
I'm poor at arena, but still love playing it. My best is 7 wins, and that was with Hunter. Druid and Paladin I've gotten a few 5/6 win runs. Mages tend to be the death of me, and yes I know how they work and the usual trickery. But they still manage to better me. When I select Mage best I can do is 4 wins though. I never get a Pyro like the rest seem to, I rarely get fireball, and I'm lucky if I get a flamestrike. Had a few runs without any of those. In saying that, the 7 wins with hunter was without UTH and I think I had only the one spell, which was freezetrap.
I agree that flamestrike should be a rare card, having 2-3 flamestrikes is decisive, specially because arena is mainly played around minion trades.
They should also ban Mind Control Tech from arena, since he has a 100% chance to mind control your 7/7+ Frostwolf Warlord and lose you the arena. It's not written on the card but it works that way, happened twice today. I'm sad.
They should also ban Mind Control Tech from arena, since he has a 100% chance to mind control your 7/7+ Frostwolf Warlord and lose you the arena. It's not written on the card but it works that way, happened twice today. I'm sad.
LOL: Nat Pagle text: Draw a card every turn if played by your opponent. Otherwise: a 0/4 for 2. ;)
Was gonna make a thread but I saw this here. Should one class be above and beyond the others in terms of basic cards? I mean sure, you can beat a mage in arena, but more than likely you had more threats than he did removal and that's not usually the case. Personally I'm sick of playing around turn 7, and then my guys with + 5 health poly'd or fireballed every damn time. "If you can't beat them join them." I like levelling my classes evenly, so no I don't spam mage every draft I'm given the option.
If you played against a rouge in arena named iShinobi and if you polymorphed his Ysera after already using two. I abhor you.
I would argue that the most valuable class in arena is warlock, not mage, because their hero ability is second to none. As a mage you may get a good draw (same can be said of hunter, whose core cards I would argue are even more versatile), but even with a bad draw a warlock is still better able to overcome RNG than any other class.
The reason mage gets such a bad rapp is because their CC is the best in the game. Arena adds to this as you put because of the potential for more than 2 of a particular card. The way I look at it is different: if they are carrying 3 polymorphs, that is 1 less card they can kill me with in the deck. This is why I draft midrange cards at the highest priority, as they are the hardest to CC in general. Warrior, Hunter, Priest, Druid and Shaman all have great class specific midrange that force a mage to make decisions about when and how to spend that CC, and remember that they also don't know what is coming next in your deck, so they have to be prepared for a legendary that might not even be there. Drafting critters with immediate impact battle cry or strong standalones is usually the key to beating mages, or any other class for that matter.
As far as the comment about losing a 5 health critter on turn 7, I know the feeling but you act as if mages are alone in their ability to deal at that stage of the game. EVERY class (Priest: Holy Fire, Paladin: Equality/Conc, Rogue: Assassinate, Shaman: Hex, Druid: Starfire, Hunter: Deadly Shot, Warrior: Execute, Warlock: Siphon Soul) has the ability to deal with a 5 health critter by turn 7. Mages may dominate board control, but they do so at the expense of being able to wear out an opponent. People who play high efficiency cards, such as Harvest Golem, wear out a mages card draw and trade off in CC fairly routinely, and since card draw is king in this game, mages still trail behind warlocks.
Bottom line: mages are fairly balanced, you just have to adjust your playstyle when dealing with them. Keep more cards in your hands, play a control or midrange style game, and you should be fine.
Mhm, sure any class can "rek." It's just the number of times I've had to play against mages every draft is ridic. I don't want to lose to same thing over and over. I mean, does every arena run have to have a guarantee'd 3+ mages? Geesh.
I dont even like mage in arena, i have way more 12 wins on other classes. From my experience most mages are playing poorly in the arena and having bad manners, not all tho.
This is the thing that I don't understand: Mage is the 2nd least played class in constructed (behind Priest). If it is really so OP, why isn't it dominating constructed?
Mage is a relatively straightforward class to play, that doesn't require a lot of thought to be marginally successful. This is why it is so popular, not because it is OP. But to truly dominate as a Mage, You need a lot more than just Flamestrike + Win.
This is the thing that I don't understand: Mage is the 2nd least played class in constructed (behind Priest). If it is really so OP, why isn't it dominating constructed?
So are you claiming that Mage core cards are better than Shaman or Hunter by that argument? Mage specializes in CC in exchange for board presence. This has nothing to do with draft, except that the priority of drafting perfect creature composition is lower. If you have a bad draft, Mage can hurt you, but with a decent draft it shouldn't matter that much.
Lets do a little math here (assuming that mages use the "all in" board approach on turn 6):
On turn 6 to turn 7, there are a few possible outcomes:
1. Mage does a truly all-in setup, consisting of high damage with a high residual creature left on the board. For benefit of the doubt, I am going to assume that the Mage has the coin. The most insane play I can think of would be Mana Wyrm x2, Coin, BT, Frostbolt, Icelance x2, and Mirror Image, causing 14 damage to the opponent while leaving 2 6/3 Wyrms protected by 2 taunt minions. This is probably the worst case scenario for an enemy player going into turn 7, assuming that the mage is holding a flamestrike and the enemy isn't a hunter with UTH and Dire Wolves. The issue that I have with this scenario is the assumption that a mage would be holding those 9 cards on turn 6 and still have full board control. If they do, you probably deserve the loss anyways (although this scenario is in fact possible, as I have a deck designed to do exactly this).
2. Mage does a strong position setup on turn 6, using large critter with the expectation to future buff while threatening the flamestrike. The problem with this scenario is that the mage may get 2 critters on the board, and if you are worried about crowd controlling 2 critters on turn 6 because of a mage, you are probably in trouble already.
3. Mage truly "swarms" the board, placing 7 1 cost minions (assuming, once again, the mage has the coin). The most efficient group of critters I can think of is 2 Mana Wyrms, Coin, 1 Leper Gnome, 2 Boars and 2 Sergeants, rendering a grand total of 6 damage that turn with a potential of 10 damage on turn 7 if not reacted to. This once again assumes that the mage was able to collect 9 cards while maintaining board control (this scenario is more likely than scenario 1, but it has less impact).
In scenario 1 and 3, board control is highly unlikely. In scenario 2, most classes have a method to deal with a single large critter, and the classes that struggle in that regard have a way to buff their hero's attack power to kill it directly. In all of the scenarios, there are still cards that could come out and deal enough damage on their turn 6/7 to negate the move.
A far better option for a mage is to tease out CC, hold 2 flamestrikes, and then on turn 8 drop Ragnaros. I am much more afraid of a mage if I don't see Flamestrike on turn 7, and I even bait it out sometimes to ensure I can handle larger threats if I am forced out of CC early.
I think that's what Trump etc. say - like priest can do well if you get the combos - but you can't expect to get the combos even 50% of the time - so go something more consistent if you can. Highmanes are rare and fire eles are basic, right?
My current run has two losses. Both to hunters... ! :O
Maybe I should try a hunter (when of course there is no mage option). It used to get the bad wrap but seems to be getting some big hype now.
I find it easier to ID my drafting priorities as a hunter. Also, most of the key class cards do not use up one of the prime 4-drop slots.
4 arena runs tonight. 12 loses to Mages with either 3+ Flamestrikes or 3+ Fireballs/polymorph. I lost all my gold thanks to a glaring issue in the game Blizzard refuses to address. I'm done with this game until an expansion comes out. Cya in a few months.
Cya! :D
Wait a minute - based on those runs you're awesome at arena. Care to do some coaching sometime? (for free?? ;) )
I'm poor at arena, but still love playing it. My best is 7 wins, and that was with Hunter. Druid and Paladin I've gotten a few 5/6 win runs. Mages tend to be the death of me, and yes I know how they work and the usual trickery. But they still manage to better me. When I select Mage best I can do is 4 wins though. I never get a Pyro like the rest seem to, I rarely get fireball, and I'm lucky if I get a flamestrike. Had a few runs without any of those. In saying that, the 7 wins with hunter was without UTH and I think I had only the one spell, which was freezetrap.
I agree that flamestrike should be a rare card, having 2-3 flamestrikes is decisive, specially because arena is mainly played around minion trades.
They should also ban Mind Control Tech from arena, since he has a 100% chance to mind control your 7/7+ Frostwolf Warlord and lose you the arena. It's not written on the card but it works that way, happened twice today. I'm sad.
My comments refer mostly to the wild format.
Mind Control is fine. Flamestrike is Fine. Mage is not fine.
LOL: Nat Pagle text: Draw a card every turn if played by your opponent. Otherwise: a 0/4 for 2. ;)
Was gonna make a thread but I saw this here. Should one class be above and beyond the others in terms of basic cards? I mean sure, you can beat a mage in arena, but more than likely you had more threats than he did removal and that's not usually the case. Personally I'm sick of playing around turn 7, and then my guys with + 5 health poly'd or fireballed every damn time. "If you can't beat them join them." I like levelling my classes evenly, so no I don't spam mage every draft I'm given the option.
If you played against a rouge in arena named iShinobi and if you polymorphed his Ysera after already using two. I abhor you.
I would argue that the most valuable class in arena is warlock, not mage, because their hero ability is second to none. As a mage you may get a good draw (same can be said of hunter, whose core cards I would argue are even more versatile), but even with a bad draw a warlock is still better able to overcome RNG than any other class.
The reason mage gets such a bad rapp is because their CC is the best in the game. Arena adds to this as you put because of the potential for more than 2 of a particular card. The way I look at it is different: if they are carrying 3 polymorphs, that is 1 less card they can kill me with in the deck. This is why I draft midrange cards at the highest priority, as they are the hardest to CC in general. Warrior, Hunter, Priest, Druid and Shaman all have great class specific midrange that force a mage to make decisions about when and how to spend that CC, and remember that they also don't know what is coming next in your deck, so they have to be prepared for a legendary that might not even be there. Drafting critters with immediate impact battle cry or strong standalones is usually the key to beating mages, or any other class for that matter.
As far as the comment about losing a 5 health critter on turn 7, I know the feeling but you act as if mages are alone in their ability to deal at that stage of the game. EVERY class (Priest: Holy Fire, Paladin: Equality/Conc, Rogue: Assassinate, Shaman: Hex, Druid: Starfire, Hunter: Deadly Shot, Warrior: Execute, Warlock: Siphon Soul) has the ability to deal with a 5 health critter by turn 7. Mages may dominate board control, but they do so at the expense of being able to wear out an opponent. People who play high efficiency cards, such as Harvest Golem, wear out a mages card draw and trade off in CC fairly routinely, and since card draw is king in this game, mages still trail behind warlocks.
Bottom line: mages are fairly balanced, you just have to adjust your playstyle when dealing with them. Keep more cards in your hands, play a control or midrange style game, and you should be fine.
I dont even like mage in arena, i have way more 12 wins on other classes. From my experience most mages are playing poorly in the arena and having bad manners, not all tho.
www.youtube.com/brookedit
Hearthstone videos with different perspectives :)
This is the thing that I don't understand: Mage is the 2nd least played class in constructed (behind Priest). If it is really so OP, why isn't it dominating constructed?
Mage is a relatively straightforward class to play, that doesn't require a lot of thought to be marginally successful. This is why it is so popular, not because it is OP. But to truly dominate as a Mage, You need a lot more than just Flamestrike + Win.
Draft.
So are you claiming that Mage core cards are better than Shaman or Hunter by that argument? Mage specializes in CC in exchange for board presence. This has nothing to do with draft, except that the priority of drafting perfect creature composition is lower. If you have a bad draft, Mage can hurt you, but with a decent draft it shouldn't matter that much.
-__- This is an old article but I'm sure not much has changed with respect toLink Removed: http://2p.com/3490904_1/Arena-Stats-Mage-is-the-Best-Hero-4-Players-Get-12-Wins-by-Vincent.htm statistics.
The fact of the matter is, a Mage's removal options are very basic, versatile and have more value per mana in comparison to other classes.