What s everyone talking about for new players? Presumably, new players rarely go above 3-3 in arena. buying classic packs at 100g is actually -more- efficient for new players than trying to earn them through arena.
This.
The worst advice I got as a newbie was everyone telling me to go play arena, where I of course got crushed once I got past 2-3 wins and got paired against the "arena pros". Once I switched to buying packs with my gold my collection grew twice as fast.
You really need to have a good knowledge of the card set to succeed in arena, newbies do not have that.
For brand new players I think you are right. However, if you are in that in between stage (like myself) where you can consistently get over 3 wins but your collection is far from complete, this is an undesirable design decision.
I can see that for sure. And there are of course come folks who just have a knack for arena and are very successful from the beginning.
I have been at a point for months where the only new cards I get are from crafting or the occasional lucky legendary hit in a pack. So I am all about getting cards from the new set.
i was under the impression that you could buy the new packs with gold just like the old packs, so saying you can only get the new packs from arena is a bit misleading. i think a better wording is "the only pack reward you will get from arena is GvG packs" ... less confusing to the newer players.
this being said, i don't like that's the only pack to expect from arena. perhaps its for a limited time to get the cards out there, but my deck is too far from complete to rely just on the new mech cards.
If you do not need to craft expert pack commons, this change will not affect you too much. You can disenchant cards from the new set to get cards from the old set. Many of the new neutral cards are more powerful than the old set neutrals, on par with naxx cards in terms of power creep. So many of the cards you want to craft from the old set is class cards. But it seems very likely that the bulk of any deck in the future will be a mix of naxx and gob cards with only supplemental non-class cards from the old set. That does not seem too bad for new players, imo.
Also, I am expecting a lot more class cards to come in addition to the ones spoileD so far. Those will be very exciting to see.
While I agree overall, I think it's going to make the game really rough on people who only have the starter decks, to the point that I hope they either make freely available Goblin & Gnome starters, or that they create a walled garden for people who have not yet had the chance to get more than X packs.
You guys are missing one very important fact. 90% of packs are complete nonsense, and you are acting like you'll get a good card/a card you need from every pack or something, which is not the case. There won't be any problems with new players (well, they'll cry on forums once in a while) because you can just DE those useless gnomes for something of value. Also, I think that people who want 50/50 chance on boosters after arena run are trolls or mentally ill.
Actually, the point of this thread is after the expansion, completing a vintage set will be much more difficult than it currently is, so you're better off doing as many arena runs as you can now before the expansion hits because you can get vintage packs cheaper this way.
For me, the average "cost" of a pack right now is probably 20 gold if not less because I earn them all from arena runs. After the expansion, the average cost of an original pack is going to be 100g no matter what I do.
For anyone that doesn't care about completing their set or those that already have a full set, this change is nothing but good for them. For people like me that don't have a complete set, yet wants one but has just about every card they "need", this change isn't that bad. It will unfortunately be more difficult to finish that set as I would be forced to finish my vintage set through either dust or 100g packs as opposed to ~20g packs. However, for everyone else? New players or people that still need a majority of the set? Well, this change is going to make getting the cards they need from packs much more inefficient.
This is bad news for collectors still working on their collection and new players. It's simple math. It's easier to finish out a set and get the cards you need when packs are cheap. Any player that makes 60g+ during their arena run is saving gold on their pack and you only need about 3 wins to earn that amount. After the expansion, original packs will no longer be cheap and never be cheap again. That is the point of this thread.
I don't understand: if you're a "pure arena player", why do you care about which cards you have in your collection? You won't ever have to worry about making a constructed deck. The type of card pack should be irrelevant.
I don't understand: if you're a "pure arena player", why do you care about which cards you have in your collection? You won't ever have to worry about making a constructed deck. The type of card pack should be irrelevant.
I don't understand: if you're a "pure arena player", why do you care about which cards you have in your collection? You won't ever have to worry about making a constructed deck. The type of card pack should be irrelevant.
I'm not a pure arena player. It's just I only build my collection through arena. I don't buy packs outright.
It sounds like most people are actually concerned about newer players though. Kinda weird when people are like "Everybody should have the cards they need by now, new pack makes sense." It's not particularly new player friendly. However, I fully believe that, somewhere down the road, they will just give away a chit that you can redeem for any pack (when there's even more card expansions).
Also, I'll just bring this up, because I don't think anyone has yet. Maybe you will be able to create completely viable decks with nothing but the GvG cards (and basic cards). If this is the case, then this really won't be a problem. Remember, we've only seen around 25% of the cards they are releasing, and pretty much every card we've seen has been very gimmicky and "fun", as the Hearthstone people put it.
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Twitch name: Anatak15 NA Legend Season 48, 49, 52, 53, 54, 74
Hmm, that wasn't quite what I was saying, but that makes a lot of sense! Haha. It might actually end up more new-player friendly than I originally thought.
I still think Naxx needs to come down in price a little bit eventually to help out any newcomers. Tough to advertise the game as F2P but still charge however much ($20? $30? I can't remember) for some very important cards in every deck. That could be covered in a different topic though.
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Twitch name: Anatak15 NA Legend Season 48, 49, 52, 53, 54, 74
You guys are missing one very important fact. 90% of packs are complete nonsense, and you are acting like you'll get a good card/a card you need from every pack or something, which is not the case. There won't be any problems with new players (well, they'll cry on forums once in a while) because you can just DE those useless gnomes for something of value. Also, I think that people who want 50/50 chance on boosters after arena run are trolls or mentally ill.
Actually, the point of this thread is after the expansion, completing a vintage set will be much more difficult than it currently is, so you're better off doing as many arena runs as you can now before the expansion hits because you can get vintage packs cheaper this way.
For me, the average "cost" of a pack right now is probably 20 gold if not less because I earn them all from arena runs. After the expansion, the average cost of an original pack is going to be 100g no matter what I do.
For anyone that doesn't care about completing their set or those that already have a full set, this change is nothing but good for them. For people like me that don't have a complete set, yet wants one but has just about every card they "need", this change isn't that bad. It will unfortunately be more difficult to finish that set as I would be forced to finish my vintage set through either dust or 100g packs as opposed to ~20g packs. However, for everyone else? New players or people that still need a majority of the set? Well, this change is going to make getting the cards they need from packs much more inefficient.
This is bad news for collectors still working on their collection and new players. It's simple math. It's easier to finish out a set and get the cards you need when packs are cheap. Any player that makes 60g+ during their arena run is saving gold on their pack and you only need about 3 wins to earn that amount. After the expansion, original packs will no longer be cheap and never be cheap again. That is the point of this thread.
The problem is for every '20g' pack you get, six other people got a 115g pack. The simple math might seem bad, but if you do -actual- math, you'll realize the people you claim it's bad news for can't possibly all be getting '20g' packs. you explicitly need more than three wins, which means some number of people must get less than that. Arena packs are 100g.
For people like me that don't have a complete set, yet wants one but has just about every card they "need", this change isn't that bad. It will unfortunately be more difficult to finish that set as I would be forced to finish my vintage set through either dust or 100g packs as opposed to ~20g packs.
If you already have every card you need, then the Classic packs you're currently getting from Arena are basically just dust. You probably don't need any of the cards in them, unless they happen to fill one of the few holes in your set. If most of the packs are just dust to you, it shouldn't make much difference whether you're opening Classic packs or GvG packs. You'll reach the same point with GvG pretty quickly, and then GvG packs will essentially just be filled with dust too. You can finish your Classic set using the dust you get in 20g GvG packs.
The problem is for every '20g' pack you get, six other people got a 115g pack. The simple math might seem bad, but if you do -actual- math, you'll realize the people you claim it's bad news for can't possibly all be getting '20g' packs. you explicitly need more than three wins, which means some number of people must get less than that. Arena packs are 100g.
sounds like only a very small portion of players, those that miss some old cards and are good at arena, get pissed off by the new pack and the majority of players, those that are beginners and those that have all the classic cards they need, are way better off with the new pack reward.
btw because it was stated regularly in this thread i wouldn't expect gvsg cards to simply outclass classic cards on average. i guess gvsg spawns some viable archetypes but most high end archetype defining bombs will still come out of the classic set (molten & mountain giant, shield slam, rag,...). otherwise it would make zero sense to keep the price of old packs at 100. what i can see is that there will be one strong aggro type deck that plays with gvsg + naxx cards and maybe some cards in the range of some hundret dust from the old set.
For people like me that don't have a complete set, yet wants one but has just about every card they "need", this change isn't that bad. It will unfortunately be more difficult to finish that set as I would be forced to finish my vintage set through either dust or 100g packs as opposed to ~20g packs.
If you already have every card you need, then the Classic packs you're currently getting from Arena are basically just dust. You probably don't need any of the cards in them, unless they happen to fill one of the few holes in your set. If most of the packs are just dust to you, it shouldn't make much difference whether you're opening Classic packs or GvG packs. You'll reach the same point with GvG pretty quickly, and then GvG packs will essentially just be filled with dust too. You can finish your Classic set using the dust you get in 20g GvG packs.
I have most of the cards I need but not all of them and the ones I'm missing that I really need are legendary. For instance I don't have Baron Geddon or Archmage Antonidas along with several other legendary cards that are used in various decks. I'd rather get them from packs I earn from arenas over packs I pay full price for or crafting from dust.
Now granted, most of the packs I open are nothing but dust. However, even now I still find the occasional pack that has a card I'm missing from my collection. So, I'm still going to do arena runs as much as possible to increase the odds of me finishing off as much of my original set as I can before I'm forced to buy packs for 100g or craft cards with dust.
edit:
The problem is for every '20g' pack you get, six other people got a 115g pack. The simple math might seem bad, but if you do -actual- math, you'll realize the people you claim it's bad news for can't possibly all be getting '20g' packs. you explicitly need more than three wins, which means some number of people must get less than that. Arena packs are 100g.
This is true. For players that are bad at arena, nothing really changes. They're better off buying packs for 100g now and after the expansion comes out, they'll still be better off buying packs for 100g.
I want to say for arena to average out better than buying packs outright, you need to average 4 wins? So this thread is basically for anyone that meets that average. I wouldn't recommend anyone that consistently only gets 0-3 wins to mass arena runs before the expansion (unless they just enjoy arena that much, in which case go for it!). But for people that can make that average and wants to finish as much of their collection as possible before the expansion, this thread applies to those people :)
What people aren't considering is the change in meta after the expansion. You will be pretty far behind in the meta game if you aren't getting the new cards. Blizzard want's the meta game to change drastically, before it get's too stale. Majority of Arena players are veterans (I could be wrong on this, but I've been playing since closed beta and I still can't get passed 3 wins, and tend to stay away from Arena for the time being) Many old cards will be flat out replaced with new cards due to power creep, and Blizzard is the king of power creeping. If I had a friend new to the game, I would recommend that they get the new cards, rather the old ones, since it will be much easier to finish a decent deck. Hearthstone has around 500 cards, 412 of which are collectible. As far as we know, there are only 120 cards in GvG. So you will be able to finish out GvG roughly 3.5x faster. Once you start getting mostly dust out of GvG packs, you can start getting specific cards from the old pack faster.
How many cards do you get that you don't already have from Arena packs? I buy packs, and I have about 80% of the cards, but only 2 Legs + Naxx, I usually get 1 or 2 cards I don't have every other pack. Once you max out your GvG cards from arena, packs will be pure dust, so you can get specific cards.
But let's not all lie to ourselves, Blizzard doesn't do anything without money as the top priority. They did this so players will have to buy packs to get the legends they need from the Expert Packs AND will still pay or at least gamble, in Arena.
Many old cards will be flat out replaced with new cards due to power creep
I think so too. Old class cards and many of the neutral legendaries will still have value. But as for the non-legendary neutral minion cards, I think that over 90% of them from the Classic set will become obsolete after GvsG due to power creep, with very few exceptions (Harvest Golem, Loot Hoarder, Leper Gnome, Chillwind Yeti, etc.). Just look at how Naxx neutral minions have already replaced most of the Classic non-legendary neutrals. I expect this trend to escalate from there.
Exactly, but some may also shine from the Classic set due to some becoming mechs, such as Harvest Golem, Demolisher, and Alarmo-o-bot. Those will definitely see play in Mech Zoo, Control, and maybe some bombing theme deck (Sounds fun tbh). They could also be cheaper to craft due to rework, but we'll see.
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I can see that for sure. And there are of course come folks who just have a knack for arena and are very successful from the beginning.
I have been at a point for months where the only new cards I get are from crafting or the occasional lucky legendary hit in a pack. So I am all about getting cards from the new set.
i was under the impression that you could buy the new packs with gold just like the old packs, so saying you can only get the new packs from arena is a bit misleading. i think a better wording is "the only pack reward you will get from arena is GvG packs" ... less confusing to the newer players.
this being said, i don't like that's the only pack to expect from arena. perhaps its for a limited time to get the cards out there, but my deck is too far from complete to rely just on the new mech cards.
watch my arena runs on Mr Shrumpert Presents
While I agree overall, I think it's going to make the game really rough on people who only have the starter decks, to the point that I hope they either make freely available Goblin & Gnome starters, or that they create a walled garden for people who have not yet had the chance to get more than X packs.
Actually, the point of this thread is after the expansion, completing a vintage set will be much more difficult than it currently is, so you're better off doing as many arena runs as you can now before the expansion hits because you can get vintage packs cheaper this way.
For me, the average "cost" of a pack right now is probably 20 gold if not less because I earn them all from arena runs. After the expansion, the average cost of an original pack is going to be 100g no matter what I do.
For anyone that doesn't care about completing their set or those that already have a full set, this change is nothing but good for them. For people like me that don't have a complete set, yet wants one but has just about every card they "need", this change isn't that bad. It will unfortunately be more difficult to finish that set as I would be forced to finish my vintage set through either dust or 100g packs as opposed to ~20g packs. However, for everyone else? New players or people that still need a majority of the set? Well, this change is going to make getting the cards they need from packs much more inefficient.
This is bad news for collectors still working on their collection and new players. It's simple math. It's easier to finish out a set and get the cards you need when packs are cheap. Any player that makes 60g+ during their arena run is saving gold on their pack and you only need about 3 wins to earn that amount. After the expansion, original packs will no longer be cheap and never be cheap again. That is the point of this thread.
I don't understand: if you're a "pure arena player", why do you care about which cards you have in your collection? You won't ever have to worry about making a constructed deck. The type of card pack should be irrelevant.
Because he is an arena player AND a collector :D
I'm not a pure arena player. It's just I only build my collection through arena. I don't buy packs outright.
It sounds like most people are actually concerned about newer players though. Kinda weird when people are like "Everybody should have the cards they need by now, new pack makes sense." It's not particularly new player friendly. However, I fully believe that, somewhere down the road, they will just give away a chit that you can redeem for any pack (when there's even more card expansions).
Also, I'll just bring this up, because I don't think anyone has yet. Maybe you will be able to create completely viable decks with nothing but the GvG cards (and basic cards). If this is the case, then this really won't be a problem. Remember, we've only seen around 25% of the cards they are releasing, and pretty much every card we've seen has been very gimmicky and "fun", as the Hearthstone people put it.
Twitch name: Anatak15
NA Legend Season 48, 49, 52, 53, 54, 74
Hmm, that wasn't quite what I was saying, but that makes a lot of sense! Haha. It might actually end up more new-player friendly than I originally thought.
I still think Naxx needs to come down in price a little bit eventually to help out any newcomers. Tough to advertise the game as F2P but still charge however much ($20? $30? I can't remember) for some very important cards in every deck. That could be covered in a different topic though.
Twitch name: Anatak15
NA Legend Season 48, 49, 52, 53, 54, 74
The problem is for every '20g' pack you get, six other people got a 115g pack. The simple math might seem bad, but if you do -actual- math, you'll realize the people you claim it's bad news for can't possibly all be getting '20g' packs. you explicitly need more than three wins, which means some number of people must get less than that. Arena packs are 100g.
If you already have every card you need, then the Classic packs you're currently getting from Arena are basically just dust. You probably don't need any of the cards in them, unless they happen to fill one of the few holes in your set. If most of the packs are just dust to you, it shouldn't make much difference whether you're opening Classic packs or GvG packs. You'll reach the same point with GvG pretty quickly, and then GvG packs will essentially just be filled with dust too. You can finish your Classic set using the dust you get in 20g GvG packs.
sounds like only a very small portion of players, those that miss some old cards and are good at arena, get pissed off by the new pack and the majority of players, those that are beginners and those that have all the classic cards they need, are way better off with the new pack reward.
btw because it was stated regularly in this thread i wouldn't expect gvsg cards to simply outclass classic cards on average. i guess gvsg spawns some viable archetypes but most high end archetype defining bombs will still come out of the classic set (molten & mountain giant, shield slam, rag,...). otherwise it would make zero sense to keep the price of old packs at 100. what i can see is that there will be one strong aggro type deck that plays with gvsg + naxx cards and maybe some cards in the range of some hundret dust from the old set.
I have most of the cards I need but not all of them and the ones I'm missing that I really need are legendary. For instance I don't have Baron Geddon or Archmage Antonidas along with several other legendary cards that are used in various decks. I'd rather get them from packs I earn from arenas over packs I pay full price for or crafting from dust.
Now granted, most of the packs I open are nothing but dust. However, even now I still find the occasional pack that has a card I'm missing from my collection. So, I'm still going to do arena runs as much as possible to increase the odds of me finishing off as much of my original set as I can before I'm forced to buy packs for 100g or craft cards with dust.
edit:
This is true. For players that are bad at arena, nothing really changes. They're better off buying packs for 100g now and after the expansion comes out, they'll still be better off buying packs for 100g.
I want to say for arena to average out better than buying packs outright, you need to average 4 wins? So this thread is basically for anyone that meets that average. I wouldn't recommend anyone that consistently only gets 0-3 wins to mass arena runs before the expansion (unless they just enjoy arena that much, in which case go for it!). But for people that can make that average and wants to finish as much of their collection as possible before the expansion, this thread applies to those people :)
What people aren't considering is the change in meta after the expansion. You will be pretty far behind in the meta game if you aren't getting the new cards. Blizzard want's the meta game to change drastically, before it get's too stale. Majority of Arena players are veterans (I could be wrong on this, but I've been playing since closed beta and I still can't get passed 3 wins, and tend to stay away from Arena for the time being) Many old cards will be flat out replaced with new cards due to power creep, and Blizzard is the king of power creeping. If I had a friend new to the game, I would recommend that they get the new cards, rather the old ones, since it will be much easier to finish a decent deck. Hearthstone has around 500 cards, 412 of which are collectible. As far as we know, there are only 120 cards in GvG. So you will be able to finish out GvG roughly 3.5x faster. Once you start getting mostly dust out of GvG packs, you can start getting specific cards from the old pack faster.
How many cards do you get that you don't already have from Arena packs? I buy packs, and I have about 80% of the cards, but only 2 Legs + Naxx, I usually get 1 or 2 cards I don't have every other pack. Once you max out your GvG cards from arena, packs will be pure dust, so you can get specific cards.
But let's not all lie to ourselves, Blizzard doesn't do anything without money as the top priority. They did this so players will have to buy packs to get the legends they need from the Expert Packs AND will still pay or at least gamble, in Arena.
Exactly, but some may also shine from the Classic set due to some becoming mechs, such as Harvest Golem, Demolisher, and Alarmo-o-bot. Those will definitely see play in Mech Zoo, Control, and maybe some bombing theme deck (Sounds fun tbh). They could also be cheaper to craft due to rework, but we'll see.