Writing as a professional game developer myself (since mid '80s):
It's unbelievable how some people are complaining and even getting angry about something (Brawl) that:
1) is 100% free, in terms of money and everything else; 2) is not required to be participated in; 3) does not enforce itself onto you; 4) can be just left aside if not to one's liking; 5) (temporarily) grants a free reward for winning once a week.
It once again says enough about the sad mentality of the mindset of 21th century overly spoiled gamers. I don't want to be judging, but I find it outright disgusting. Also it works demotivating for as far as my work goes.
Well I am writing as an indie game dev myself. First of all not sure if you were talking about me, but I wasn't complaining, I was simply explaining why I am disappointed in first week of brawl.
Here's the thing- it being free is not an excuse. It's like saying this about a game that is clearly "P2W"- "Oh get over it! It's free!". Just because something is free does not mean it can suck (after all some people have spent hundreds of $ on this game).
And when you're about to release new content people will get exited, but when you don't live up to peoples expectations they will be disappointed and that's what I am- disappointed. It being free with a small reward won't make a bad first week of brawl up for me.
But in general it surprises me that someone that has been a game developer since mid '80s still thinks that something being free is an excuse..
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I didn't have a signature so Flux added one for me.
Ok so from what I have gathered is that some people are really disappointed in the first week of brawl and some people really love it.
Here's my opinion- I LOVE brawl idea. I think some other brawls will be 10/10 for me. But starting the brawl mode with such a boring first week of brawl is a letdown. That's what this thread is about! I didn't create this thread to complain about how unbalanced the first week is.
But to those people who have said that "It's free, get over it!"- That imo is not an excuse! Especially considering that some people have spent tons of money on this game.
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You have no control about anything in this game, and if you've got Rag, you're already losing. It's better not to waste time and just concede until you get Nefarian, so you'll get an easy win, and a prize pack. Then there's no need to come back to it until next week.
Truly awful mode 2/10 (I'd given it a 1/10, but the pack you get as a prize gives it one more point)
I give 7/10. It lacks a little in replay value, but I've enjoyed it and had quite a few neck-and-neck finishes. I'll probably try to finish quests there if they're not class-specific.
ZBtheman is clearly a mind reader because as he states no one wanted this mode! well actually a lot of people commented and made videos even kripp him self proposed a mode like this because it makes things interesting, seriously get over yourself
And when Kripp actually got to try it out, he too was disappointed.
A lot of us feel let down, because we had such high hopes for this game mode. If this first week is anything to go by, though, Blizzard are taking things in a completely different direction than expected. I feel that even something really simple like "build a deck using only basic cards" would have been far more interesting than this rubbish we got.
That was the thing everyone wanted and expected: Custom gamerules. That and a way to get rid of Huntard spam.
But instead we got 2 premade decks with no customization, from which one has to play like a face hunter if you want to win... NOBODY WANTED THIS!
Blizzard spent more time creating the new hero portraits than on Tavern Brawl...
I think of it like one of the adventure expansion games. The great thing about the expansions was how creative they were. The bad thing was that they were sooooo easy I usually won them first try. I wanted to go back but, just no challenge. And then the Herioc mode is so ludicrously difficult that they aren't even fun unless you're a masochist, you're just waiting for your deck to appear in your hand in the EXACT right order.
This brawl adventure feels like one of those expansion levels, but with just the right amount of difficulty. I actually enjoy playing Ragnaros more than Nefarian because it is really fun to pull off a win as an underdog (but it's not nearly as unbalanced as a heroic mode fight).
It takes a half dozen games with each of the heros to really get the strategy for each side down, because you cannot just play them out like you would a standard deck, there are very specific strategies you have to uncover to win (e.g., Magma Rager = good!). Also, once you know what is going on, the funny thing is it is NOT nearly as unbalanced as it initially seems because Rag has lots of specific tools tailored to counter Nefarian's deck - it's fun to get my head around that.
So, I think you get 10-15 games worth of fun out of it, and move on to whatever crazy idea they come up with next week. Sounds like a good deal to me.
We do not need a fancy short kind of mini adventure game each week. We need a Tournament Mode. Period. Just like Arena, with an entry fee (200 gold for example) That's it. Nothing crazy. Plain and simple.
A new Tournament-Mode would be a very useful mode for the community. I hope it will come in one of the next patches...
I'd rather it come next year. You gotta remember, this is taking the place of one of our card sets this year. I want to at least get one expansion. Although, if they had done tourney mode instead of this crap and then never touched tavern brawl I would have been 10x happier.
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I returned to this game much like how a recovering alcoholic can relapse.
We do not need a fancy short kind of mini adventure game each week. We need a Tournament Mode. Period. Just like Arena, with an entry fee (200 gold for example) That's it. Nothing crazy. Plain and simple.
Preach you saint! PREACH IT!
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I returned to this game much like how a recovering alcoholic can relapse.
ZBtheman is clearly a mind reader because as he states no one wanted this mode! well actually a lot of people commented and made videos even kripp him self proposed a mode like this because it makes things interesting, seriously get over yourself
And when Kripp actually got to try it out, he too was disappointed.
A lot of us feel let down, because we had such high hopes for this game mode. If this first week is anything to go by, though, Blizzard are taking things in a completely different direction than expected. I feel that even something really simple like "build a deck using only basic cards" would have been far more interesting than this rubbish we got.
That was the thing everyone wanted and expected: Custom gamerules. That and a way to get rid of Huntard spam.
But instead we got 2 premade decks with no customization, from which one has to play like a face hunter if you want to win... NOBODY WANTED THIS!
PREACH IT 2! ELECTRIC BUAGLOO!
But seriously, both of you guys are 100% right. When this was announced I was like "Holy crap! Challengestone! Maybe they will finally let us do 100% custom rules with friends!" But it ended up being, "Holy crap! Blizz just gave me the finger!"
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I returned to this game much like how a recovering alcoholic can relapse.
People are taking this way too seriously. I had a fun few games out of it - won 3 with rag, 2 with nef. got a card pack. yey
still would rather have more deck slots but i'm still obviously too dumb to handle that complexity
A brawl that you play for 1 card pack and only for few matches is not what most people were expecting. I was expecting it to be fun enough to keep me interested for few days.. but instead I only played 5 matches and was done with it. But maybe next week, we'll see.
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I didn't have a signature so Flux added one for me.
The first brawl idea was awesome. I got a chance to play one of my friends who doesn't play often and have all the legendarys in a FAIR FIGHT and got to use some new cards. If this is only like 1/20th of the content that we are getting, its free, and we get a free pack for it, why wouldn't I like it?
The first brawl idea was awesome. I got a chance to play one of my friends who doesn't play often and have all the legendarys in a FAIR FIGHT and got to use some new cards. If this is only like 1/20th of the content that we are getting, its free, and we get a free pack for it, why wouldn't I like it?
I haven't said I don't like the Brawl Mode. In fact I love that mode. It's just that from the first ever Brawl I expected more. I'd be fine if Rag vs Nef brawl was few weeks from now, but launching the Brawl Mode with that brawl was a bad decision imo. And again, it being free is no excuse.
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There seems to be a lot of people who are very willing to defend blizzard or who are advocating the "you are not allowed to complain about something that's free, omg spoiled brats" mindset.
But people are straight up conceding when they play brawl and get Ragnaros.
It's not important what the win% of each is, when you compare it to how many people seem to really not want to get Rag in brawl. Is brawl balanced? Maybe. But it really seems like you have more fun as Nefarian, and that's not a good thing.
Personally, after 46 brawl wins, I feel that the times I won as Ragnaros, it felt like the Nefarian player had bad luck and I managed to barely scratch out a win and turn things around in the late game or like I might still have been wrecked if the Nefarian player had more luck with his hero power or had drawn one more big-ish dragon. When I win with Nefarian, it often feels like the Rag player didn't have a chance.
Even if Blizzard pulls out some metrics and shows us that it's totally 50/50, which I have huge difficulties believing, Ragnaros feels a lot more frustrating to play than Nefarian, and that's a bit of a failure no matter how you look at it.
This. Exactly this. Regardless of if internal testing showed it was 50/50 and that after two days in the wild the win rate is indeed 50/50, the FEELING is that Ragnaros is completely underpowered and only wins when a) Nef's hero power whiffs with total shite drawn and b) Rag's hero ability pings EXACTLY what it needs to every round.
My first tavern brawl, I started the game and the Rag player immediately Conceded. I got my pack and at that point only curiosity made me play again. Worst initial experience ever and it was because after it was only 6 hours live, there was already a feeling within the community that Rag was super UP and that the best thing to do was to Concede till you get Nef.
If you look at the datamined cards, all of them have been used this week aside from the bananas. The latter imply that they have more than just this week's brawl ready to go, yet the former implies we won't be seeing a ton of special cards in the near future. (There could easily be a brawl with custom decks, with "get a random banana at the start of your turn.")
My thought: they used preconstructed decks for the first week primarily to set the tone of brawl. This is partially to discourage people from immediately bringing their existing metadecks into modified rule environments, which isn't the playstyle they want to promote with this mode. The RNGness and lack of rewards is also meant to communicate that this is "casual done right" and nothing more. Now that this tone is established however most weeks will be custom decks, if for no other reason than that this is far less work for them for a 5-day event than building special cards and decks every week.
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Well I am writing as an indie game dev myself. First of all not sure if you were talking about me, but I wasn't complaining, I was simply explaining why I am disappointed in first week of brawl.
Here's the thing- it being free is not an excuse. It's like saying this about a game that is clearly "P2W"- "Oh get over it! It's free!". Just because something is free does not mean it can suck (after all some people have spent hundreds of $ on this game).
And when you're about to release new content people will get exited, but when you don't live up to peoples expectations they will be disappointed and that's what I am- disappointed. It being free with a small reward won't make a bad first week of brawl up for me.
But in general it surprises me that someone that has been a game developer since mid '80s still thinks that something being free is an excuse..
I didn't have a signature so Flux added one for me.
Ok so from what I have gathered is that some people are really disappointed in the first week of brawl and some people really love it.
Here's my opinion- I LOVE brawl idea. I think some other brawls will be 10/10 for me. But starting the brawl mode with such a boring first week of brawl is a letdown. That's what this thread is about! I didn't create this thread to complain about how unbalanced the first week is.
But to those people who have said that "It's free, get over it!"- That imo is not an excuse! Especially considering that some people have spent tons of money on this game.
I didn't have a signature so Flux added one for me.
I think it's awesome. You get to be ****ing Ragnaros! BY FIRE BE PURGED!
You have no control about anything in this game, and if you've got Rag, you're already losing. It's better not to waste time and just concede until you get Nefarian, so you'll get an easy win, and a prize pack. Then there's no need to come back to it until next week.
Truly awful mode 2/10 (I'd given it a 1/10, but the pack you get as a prize gives it one more point)
I give 7/10. It lacks a little in replay value, but I've enjoyed it and had quite a few neck-and-neck finishes. I'll probably try to finish quests there if they're not class-specific.
Blizzard spent more time creating the new hero portraits than on Tavern Brawl...
That'll do, Huffer. That'll do.
I think it's great. 9/10
I think of it like one of the adventure expansion games. The great thing about the expansions was how creative they were. The bad thing was that they were sooooo easy I usually won them first try. I wanted to go back but, just no challenge. And then the Herioc mode is so ludicrously difficult that they aren't even fun unless you're a masochist, you're just waiting for your deck to appear in your hand in the EXACT right order.
This brawl adventure feels like one of those expansion levels, but with just the right amount of difficulty. I actually enjoy playing Ragnaros more than Nefarian because it is really fun to pull off a win as an underdog (but it's not nearly as unbalanced as a heroic mode fight).
It takes a half dozen games with each of the heros to really get the strategy for each side down, because you cannot just play them out like you would a standard deck, there are very specific strategies you have to uncover to win (e.g., Magma Rager = good!). Also, once you know what is going on, the funny thing is it is NOT nearly as unbalanced as it initially seems because Rag has lots of specific tools tailored to counter Nefarian's deck - it's fun to get my head around that.
So, I think you get 10-15 games worth of fun out of it, and move on to whatever crazy idea they come up with next week. Sounds like a good deal to me.
Yeah - I enjoyed it too. A new free mini-adventure each week.
Oblivion!
This is about Priorities.
We do not need a fancy short kind of mini adventure game each week. We need a Tournament Mode. Period. Just like Arena, with an entry fee (200 gold for example) That's it. Nothing crazy. Plain and simple.
I'd rather it come next year. You gotta remember, this is taking the place of one of our card sets this year. I want to at least get one expansion. Although, if they had done tourney mode instead of this crap and then never touched tavern brawl I would have been 10x happier.
I returned to this game much like how a recovering alcoholic can relapse.
Preach you saint! PREACH IT!
I returned to this game much like how a recovering alcoholic can relapse.
PREACH IT 2! ELECTRIC BUAGLOO!
But seriously, both of you guys are 100% right. When this was announced I was like "Holy crap! Challengestone! Maybe they will finally let us do 100% custom rules with friends!" But it ended up being, "Holy crap! Blizz just gave me the finger!"
I returned to this game much like how a recovering alcoholic can relapse.
People are taking this way too seriously. I had a fun few games out of it - won 3 with rag, 2 with nef. got a card pack. yey
still would rather have more deck slots but i'm still obviously too dumb to handle that complexity
If it makes you feel any better Ben Brode recently said on twitter that he admits new deck slots are not confusing.
I returned to this game much like how a recovering alcoholic can relapse.
A brawl that you play for 1 card pack and only for few matches is not what most people were expecting. I was expecting it to be fun enough to keep me interested for few days.. but instead I only played 5 matches and was done with it. But maybe next week, we'll see.
I didn't have a signature so Flux added one for me.
I enjoyed it just fine. Definitely thought it was more fun than the AI encounters in Naxx and BRM.
The first brawl idea was awesome. I got a chance to play one of my friends who doesn't play often and have all the legendarys in a FAIR FIGHT and got to use some new cards. If this is only like 1/20th of the content that we are getting, its free, and we get a free pack for it, why wouldn't I like it?
I haven't said I don't like the Brawl Mode. In fact I love that mode. It's just that from the first ever Brawl I expected more. I'd be fine if Rag vs Nef brawl was few weeks from now, but launching the Brawl Mode with that brawl was a bad decision imo. And again, it being free is no excuse.
I didn't have a signature so Flux added one for me.
This. Exactly this. Regardless of if internal testing showed it was 50/50 and that after two days in the wild the win rate is indeed 50/50, the FEELING is that Ragnaros is completely underpowered and only wins when a) Nef's hero power whiffs with total shite drawn and b) Rag's hero ability pings EXACTLY what it needs to every round.
My first tavern brawl, I started the game and the Rag player immediately Conceded. I got my pack and at that point only curiosity made me play again. Worst initial experience ever and it was because after it was only 6 hours live, there was already a feeling within the community that Rag was super UP and that the best thing to do was to Concede till you get Nef.
Ibn Fahd.
If you look at the datamined cards, all of them have been used this week aside from the bananas. The latter imply that they have more than just this week's brawl ready to go, yet the former implies we won't be seeing a ton of special cards in the near future. (There could easily be a brawl with custom decks, with "get a random banana at the start of your turn.")
My thought: they used preconstructed decks for the first week primarily to set the tone of brawl. This is partially to discourage people from immediately bringing their existing metadecks into modified rule environments, which isn't the playstyle they want to promote with this mode. The RNGness and lack of rewards is also meant to communicate that this is "casual done right" and nothing more. Now that this tone is established however most weeks will be custom decks, if for no other reason than that this is far less work for them for a 5-day event than building special cards and decks every week.