So I recently started playing zoo for the first time and its quite funny. I don't have a big collection of cards so I just threw together what I had and came up with this: http://i.imgur.com/uSEOdCj.jpg
What should I improve/craft first? Maybe murlocs for knife jugglers and the epic murloc for a second void terror? And maybe zombie chow --> leper gnome?
-1 Murloc Warleader, -1 Shadowflame +2 Shattered Sun Cleric
-2 Mortal Coil, +1 Doomguard, +1 Defender of Argus
-1 Power Overwhelming +1 Flame Imp, OR:
-1 Power Overwhelming -1 Flame Imp, +2 Abusive Sergeant
Zombie Chow is stronger than Leper Gnome for us, Leper Gnome is for rushing face and Zombie Chow is for tempo and board control, which we vastly prefer. Those swaps are at first glance and are just ideas for you to play around with, Zoo can be built sooooo many ways now post-Naxx. I personally don't use Undertaker or Void Terror anything like that, trading potential for consistency, but I left your theme alone in my suggestions. Here's my list: http://imgur.com/EVmlAYj
It's interesting to note that I actually have been considering a single Shadowflame for the coming weeks where I predict Shaman and Zetalot Priest will dominate, mostly because Hellfire is usually not worth it for us without having lost complete control of the board. But on the other hand neither is Shadowflame really, any concept of adding a board clear spell to Zoo is definitely a one-of and for emergencies. Its also worth considering that Hellfire has deathrattle synergy. Not sure which I'd use, or if I'd use either at all, but I'm definitely gonna play around with it.
Personally I stick to the basics and don't play on fringe Void Terror combos anymore. -Shadowflame & -Void Terror +2 Echoing Ooze. Good stats on the spot, survives hero powers, puts pump targets on board, and good synergy with Shattered Sun. If doing that, -2 Power Overwhelming, +2 Abusive Sergeant. I agree with Lastletter's changes. I have personally never found a problem pumping eggs.
Also, I'd just stick away from Zombie Chow if I were you. I have found that Chow is great at stabilizing if your deck suffers from the early game. Zoo's early game is strong.
Also, I'd just stick away from Zombie Chow if I were you. I have found that Chow is great at stabilizing if your deck suffers from the early game. Zoo's early game is strong.
I think I'd use Zombie Chows over my Squires if I ran Undertaker like he does.
Also, I'd just stick away from Zombie Chow if I were you. I have found that Chow is great at stabilizing if your deck suffers from the early game. Zoo's early game is strong.
I think I'd use Zombie Chows over my Squires if I ran Undertaker like he does.
Zombie Chow is generally terrible in the traditional Zoo decks because, despite what some people may say, at the end of the day, Zoo is an aggro deck by definition. You never want to go into the late game as Zoo vs a good midrange deck and especially not vs a good control deck piloted by a strong player. Sure, you can win, but your chances of winning at that point are often 25% (2 Soulfires + 2 Doomguards = 4 out of 16 cards) or less.
The last thing you want to be doing as an aggro player is giving the control player life, which gives effectively gives them more turns (and hence mana) to play their taunts or heals after a board clear, making your chances of winning even lower. It's all good and happy if you manage to play Zombie Chow on turn 1, but if you draw Zombie Chow on turn 3 or later, the odds are already against you as it's very unlikely that he'd do enough damage or solidify your board advantage enough to justify his inclusion. You're often better off running something else if you're playing a traditional Zoo.
I'd suggest starting off with making the changes Lastletters mentioned above, and learning the strengths and weaknesses of the traditional Zoo decks before trying out the newer bursty Zoo decks with board clears that have started appearing with Naxx. One of the reasons why these bursty decks even exist is because some players have acknowledged that Deathrattle priests (and other similar decks) can simply out-zoo them, and they want to try resetting the board and winning off of card advantage and combo past turn 5.
Right now you have a little bit of both approaches, which just makes the deck weaker overall. Try focusing on the original aspects first and find what you're comfortable with.
Also, I'd just stick away from Zombie Chow if I were you. I have found that Chow is great at stabilizing if your deck suffers from the early game. Zoo's early game is strong.
I think I'd use Zombie Chows over my Squires if I ran Undertaker like he does.
Yeah.. I don't even run Squires.
Oh I do like your list quite a bit, Ive never given Echoing Ooze really any consideration, can you look at mine ? Link in my first post.
Zombie Chow is generally terrible in the traditional Zoo decks because, despite what some people may say, at the end of the day, Zoo is an aggro deck by definition. You never want to go into the late game as Zoo vs a good midrange deck and especially not vs a good control deck piloted by a strong player. Sure, you can win, but your chances of winning at that point are often 25% (2 Soulfires + 2 Doomguards = 4 out of 16 cards) or less.
The last thing you want to be doing as an aggro player is giving the control player life, which gives effectively gives them more turns (and hence mana) to play their taunts or heals after a board clear, making your chances of winning even lower. It's all good and happy if you manage to play Zombie Chow on turn 1, but if you draw Zombie Chow on turn 3 or later, the odds are already against you as it's very unlikely that he'd do enough damage or solidify your board advantage enough to justify his inclusion. You're often better off running something else if you're playing a traditional Zoo.
I agree with this wholeheartedly, in terms of traditional Zoo, but I do think Chow can have its place in an Undertaker deck though, no ?
Mmm pretty cool stuff. I tried out Loatheb, but personally I felt he was too reactive of a card. Always trying to dodge Flamestrikes, Unleash the Skills, but always a little too slow for Swipe or Circle of Healing or Lightning Storms. It's whatever. I found myself discarding Loatheb too often to justify keeping Loatheb. TBK should just not be played right now. It's discard fodder like so many times/10. It's more than Doomgaurd, leading to awkward TBK skip gaurd double minion drop next next post TBK gaurd. Sludge Belchers are common, but I've really never had //too much of a problem dealing with it. The thing is that you want to hold on to TBK for value and zoo doesn't realllly want that. Like at all. ermm. idk.
I agree with this wholeheartedly, in terms of traditional Zoo, but I do think Chow can have its place in an Undertaker deck though, no?
I think that even in an Undertaker deck, you'd be better off running Leper Gnome and Abusive Sergeants, just because you only have 2 Undertakers in the deck. You'd still run into the original problem of having to draw Zombie Chow early, but now you'll really want to be drawing Undertaker early too! And hopefully you have another 1 drop so you can curve out with maximum mana efficiency! Of course, if everything goes right then your start will only be stopped by a handful of turn 4 plays but that's still a lot of things that have to go right for the Chow to be really worth it.
Mmm pretty cool stuff. I tried out Loatheb, but personally I felt he was too reactive of a card. Always trying to dodge Flamestrikes, Unleash the Skills, but always a little too slow for Swipe or Circle of Healing or Lightning Storms. It's whatever. I found myself discarding Loatheb too often to justify keeping Loatheb. TBK should just not be played right now. It's discard fodder like so many times/10. It's more than Doomgaurd, leading to awkward TBK skip gaurd double minion drop next next post TBK gaurd. Sludge Belchers are common, but I've really never had //too much of a problem dealing with it. The thing is that you want to hold on to TBK for value and zoo doesn't realllly want that. Like at all. ermm. idk.
Yeah I have those same concerns about Black Knight but Ive answered 5 drop Belcher with it a lot and felt really good about the tempo, plus Handlock is about to see a whole shitload of play if Im not mistaken in my assessment of the meta. I guess Im not really sure about it in general. I guess Ill play around with removing the Legendaries, Loatheb I just kind of left in there after putting him in when he first came out, he was a lot more effective for us then, since then the decks it hurts the most have been nerfed to shit in other ways
If another person recommends running Leper Gnome in a Zoo deck ever I might have to commit Sudoku.
Leper Gnome is pretty bad in the traditional Zoo that works mainly off of mana debt, but it's strong in an Undertaker deck that works off of burst and runs minions like Nerubian Egg and Void Terror, and spells like Power Overwhelming.
Though I guess you could argue that it's not really Zoo anymore, but Demonlock.
Also, I'd just stick away from Zombie Chow if I were you. I have found that Chow is great at stabilizing if your deck suffers from the early game. Zoo's early game is strong.
I think I'd use Zombie Chows over my Squires if I ran Undertaker like he does.
Yeah.. I don't even run Squires.
WIll try this out, looks great! Do you think Power Overwhelming only makes sense when also running Void Terror? I found this to be a pretty powerful combo. Or even Power Overwhelming paired with Shadowflame, which turns a 1/1 into a crazy good board clear. But I am still a beginner, so mabye I was overly impressed :)
Generally speaking, yes. You only want to run Power Overwhelming in decks that don't win by overwhelming the board with sticky minions that must be responded to. The traditional zoo wins off of tempo: you usually have to spend 2 or more mana to kill a void walker when it costs 1 to cast. Or 4 mana to kill a harvest golem but it costs 3 to cast. You win because your opponent eventually can't catch up in mana. When you start playing cards like Void Terror, you open yourself up to the same weakness. Your opponent could spend 2 mana to sap your Void Walker that you spent 5 mana to set up, for example. If you're running Shadowflame as well, you're conceding that you'll probably be only even or behind in the first place. The deck winds up having a totally different gameplan, and it could be argued that it's not even zoo anymore.
I'd definitely run a power overwhelming. It's just too good with so many minions on the board. Can kill off big threats or used to finish. In particular when you run 2 eggs and 2 spiders, it yields tremendous benefits.
Dancing Sword is indeed a good 3 mana card if u are short of 3 mana cost cards, It is 4/4 and has deathrattle (can buff ur undertaker) and the downside of this card is really minimal compared to its stats. Currenly I m running dancing sword in my deck with undertake and it works really well.
I don't like Zombie Chow in Zoo though if you are playing an agro vs agro match, it is decent, but against midrange or control it often gives them the time they need to stabilize and turn the game on you. I've beat a lot of zoo deck thanks to their Zombie Chow making a nice stack for me.
Lepper Gnome has its moments but I agree its not part of the Zoo standard plan, the only thing that makes it viable is playing Undertaker. I admit I have it in my Zoo list but mine is trying to be a bit more early tempo/blitz and a little less board control. I find that serves me pretty well in agro vs agro match ups and is less a liability than ZC in other matchups.
Mind you 95% of my experience with Zoo is playing against it. I do play it sometimes when I get a warlock quest and do well with my list but I don't play it competitively.
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So I recently started playing zoo for the first time and its quite funny. I don't have a big collection of cards so I just threw together what I had and came up with this: http://i.imgur.com/uSEOdCj.jpg
What should I improve/craft first? Maybe murlocs for knife jugglers and the epic murloc for a second void terror? And maybe zombie chow --> leper gnome?
Cheers
-2 Murloc Tidehunter +2 Knife Juggler
-1 Murloc Warleader, -1 Shadowflame +2 Shattered Sun Cleric
-2 Mortal Coil, +1 Doomguard, +1 Defender of Argus
-1 Power Overwhelming +1 Flame Imp, OR:
-1 Power Overwhelming -1 Flame Imp, +2 Abusive Sergeant
Zombie Chow is stronger than Leper Gnome for us, Leper Gnome is for rushing face and Zombie Chow is for tempo and board control, which we vastly prefer. Those swaps are at first glance and are just ideas for you to play around with, Zoo can be built sooooo many ways now post-Naxx. I personally don't use Undertaker or Void Terror anything like that, trading potential for consistency, but I left your theme alone in my suggestions. Here's my list: http://imgur.com/EVmlAYj
It's interesting to note that I actually have been considering a single Shadowflame for the coming weeks where I predict Shaman and Zetalot Priest will dominate, mostly because Hellfire is usually not worth it for us without having lost complete control of the board. But on the other hand neither is Shadowflame really, any concept of adding a board clear spell to Zoo is definitely a one-of and for emergencies. Its also worth considering that Hellfire has deathrattle synergy. Not sure which I'd use, or if I'd use either at all, but I'm definitely gonna play around with it.
Personally I stick to the basics and don't play on fringe Void Terror combos anymore. -Shadowflame & -Void Terror +2 Echoing Ooze. Good stats on the spot, survives hero powers, puts pump targets on board, and good synergy with Shattered Sun. If doing that, -2 Power Overwhelming, +2 Abusive Sergeant. I agree with Lastletter's changes. I have personally never found a problem pumping eggs.
Also, I'd just stick away from Zombie Chow if I were you. I have found that Chow is great at stabilizing if your deck suffers from the early game. Zoo's early game is strong.
I think I'd use Zombie Chows over my Squires if I ran Undertaker like he does.
Yeah.. I don't even run Squires.
Zombie Chow is generally terrible in the traditional Zoo decks because, despite what some people may say, at the end of the day, Zoo is an aggro deck by definition. You never want to go into the late game as Zoo vs a good midrange deck and especially not vs a good control deck piloted by a strong player. Sure, you can win, but your chances of winning at that point are often 25% (2 Soulfires + 2 Doomguards = 4 out of 16 cards) or less.
The last thing you want to be doing as an aggro player is giving the control player life, which gives effectively gives them more turns (and hence mana) to play their taunts or heals after a board clear, making your chances of winning even lower. It's all good and happy if you manage to play Zombie Chow on turn 1, but if you draw Zombie Chow on turn 3 or later, the odds are already against you as it's very unlikely that he'd do enough damage or solidify your board advantage enough to justify his inclusion. You're often better off running something else if you're playing a traditional Zoo.
I'd suggest starting off with making the changes Lastletters mentioned above, and learning the strengths and weaknesses of the traditional Zoo decks before trying out the newer bursty Zoo decks with board clears that have started appearing with Naxx. One of the reasons why these bursty decks even exist is because some players have acknowledged that Deathrattle priests (and other similar decks) can simply out-zoo them, and they want to try resetting the board and winning off of card advantage and combo past turn 5.
Right now you have a little bit of both approaches, which just makes the deck weaker overall. Try focusing on the original aspects first and find what you're comfortable with.
Oh I do like your list quite a bit, Ive never given Echoing Ooze really any consideration, can you look at mine ? Link in my first post.
I agree with this wholeheartedly, in terms of traditional Zoo, but I do think Chow can have its place in an Undertaker deck though, no ?
Mmm pretty cool stuff. I tried out Loatheb, but personally I felt he was too reactive of a card. Always trying to dodge Flamestrikes, Unleash the Skills, but always a little too slow for Swipe or Circle of Healing or Lightning Storms. It's whatever. I found myself discarding Loatheb too often to justify keeping Loatheb. TBK should just not be played right now. It's discard fodder like so many times/10. It's more than Doomgaurd, leading to awkward TBK skip gaurd double minion drop next next post TBK gaurd. Sludge Belchers are common, but I've really never had //too much of a problem dealing with it. The thing is that you want to hold on to TBK for value and zoo doesn't realllly want that. Like at all. ermm. idk.
I think that even in an Undertaker deck, you'd be better off running Leper Gnome and Abusive Sergeants, just because you only have 2 Undertakers in the deck. You'd still run into the original problem of having to draw Zombie Chow early, but now you'll really want to be drawing Undertaker early too! And hopefully you have another 1 drop so you can curve out with maximum mana efficiency! Of course, if everything goes right then your start will only be stopped by a handful of turn 4 plays but that's still a lot of things that have to go right for the Chow to be really worth it.
If another person recommends running Leper Gnome in a Zoo deck ever I might have to commit Sudoku.
Yeah I have those same concerns about Black Knight but Ive answered 5 drop Belcher with it a lot and felt really good about the tempo, plus Handlock is about to see a whole shitload of play if Im not mistaken in my assessment of the meta. I guess Im not really sure about it in general. I guess Ill play around with removing the Legendaries, Loatheb I just kind of left in there after putting him in when he first came out, he was a lot more effective for us then, since then the decks it hurts the most have been nerfed to shit in other ways
Leper Gnome is pretty bad in the traditional Zoo that works mainly off of mana debt, but it's strong in an Undertaker deck that works off of burst and runs minions like Nerubian Egg and Void Terror, and spells like Power Overwhelming.
Though I guess you could argue that it's not really Zoo anymore, but Demonlock.
WIll try this out, looks great! Do you think Power Overwhelming only makes sense when also running Void Terror? I found this to be a pretty powerful combo. Or even Power Overwhelming paired with Shadowflame, which turns a 1/1 into a crazy good board clear. But I am still a beginner, so mabye I was overly impressed :)
Generally speaking, yes. You only want to run Power Overwhelming in decks that don't win by overwhelming the board with sticky minions that must be responded to. The traditional zoo wins off of tempo: you usually have to spend 2 or more mana to kill a void walker when it costs 1 to cast. Or 4 mana to kill a harvest golem but it costs 3 to cast. You win because your opponent eventually can't catch up in mana. When you start playing cards like Void Terror, you open yourself up to the same weakness. Your opponent could spend 2 mana to sap your Void Walker that you spent 5 mana to set up, for example. If you're running Shadowflame as well, you're conceding that you'll probably be only even or behind in the first place. The deck winds up having a totally different gameplan, and it could be argued that it's not even zoo anymore.
I'd definitely run a power overwhelming. It's just too good with so many minions on the board. Can kill off big threats or used to finish. In particular when you run 2 eggs and 2 spiders, it yields tremendous benefits.
Dancing Sword is indeed a good 3 mana card if u are short of 3 mana cost cards, It is 4/4 and has deathrattle (can buff ur undertaker) and the downside of this card is really minimal compared to its stats. Currenly I m running dancing sword in my deck with undertake and it works really well.
I don't like Zombie Chow in Zoo though if you are playing an agro vs agro match, it is decent, but against midrange or control it often gives them the time they need to stabilize and turn the game on you. I've beat a lot of zoo deck thanks to their Zombie Chow making a nice stack for me.
Lepper Gnome has its moments but I agree its not part of the Zoo standard plan, the only thing that makes it viable is playing Undertaker. I admit I have it in my Zoo list but mine is trying to be a bit more early tempo/blitz and a little less board control. I find that serves me pretty well in agro vs agro match ups and is less a liability than ZC in other matchups.
Mind you 95% of my experience with Zoo is playing against it. I do play it sometimes when I get a warlock quest and do well with my list but I don't play it competitively.
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Why do you have to take the cancer path? :(
relax lol zoo is completely balanced in the current meta. Yes it's strong but has some pretty hard counters