Well, I still have always felt blade flurry is superior in every way, you can use deadly point or a different weapon to increase its damage by an insane amount, even the most dire of situations where you dagger up and blade flurry it costs only one more mana to do it this way, and you of course can swin in with your dagger before hand to get rid of a pesky 2 health creature, or just double the damage to the opponents face.
I agree that Blade Flurry has the advantage damage wise, but fan of knives does offer card draw which rogue is in desperate need of since the Nat nerf. Ever since Adrenaline Rush was taken away from us we have been searching for new card draw, Nat was the answer, now he is gone. We have to have something that gives us card draw as well as helps us Adapt to the current Meta, and Fan of Knives is what fits. If I had a better option I would take it, but after searching and testing Fan of Knives works the best.
Um... What the hell, why was the only Good class epic taken away?... (I didn't play when that card was around).
It was removed in the Alpha because it was incredibly broken. Rogue was genuinely overpowered in the alpha and beta versions of the game.
Shiv used to also cost 1 mana, backstab would do damage to damaged creatures, Van Cleef had stealth when he went down, and the rogue hero ability allowed you to give your weapon +1 damage for 2 mana if you had a weapon out.
Well, I still have always felt blade flurry is superior in every way, you can use deadly point or a different weapon to increase its damage by an insane amount, even the most dire of situations where you dagger up and blade flurry it costs only one more mana to do it this way, and you of course can swin in with your dagger before hand to get rid of a pesky 2 health creature, or just double the damage to the opponents face.
I agree that Blade Flurry has the advantage damage wise, but fan of knives does offer card draw which rogue is in desperate need of since the Nat nerf. Ever since Adrenaline Rush was taken away from us we have been searching for new card draw, Nat was the answer, now he is gone. We have to have something that gives us card draw as well as helps us Adapt to the current Meta, and Fan of Knives is what fits. If I had a better option I would take it, but after searching and testing Fan of Knives works the best.
Um... What the hell, why was the only Good class epic taken away?... (I didn't play when that card was around).
It was removed in the Alpha because it was incredibly broken. Rogue was genuinely overpowered in the alpha and beta versions of the game.
Shiv used to also cost 1 mana, backstab would do damage to damaged creatures, Van Cleef had stealth when he went down, and the rogue hero ability allowed you to give your weapon +1 damage for 2 mana if you had a weapon out.
He is right, it was broken and OP, 2 cards for 1 mana is insane. Adrenaline Rush was one of the best cards in the game, it was also our only good form of card draw. People complain about other classes and cards getting nerfed but as you can see No class has ever been nerfed harder than the rogue was.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Yes I do up vote everyone who post in my threads as a thanx for taking the time to look at and comment on my post.
Love the deck idea and write-up, going to try it out some this weekend. I've been looking for a good deck to play when I don't want a miracle rogue induced headache.
I'm short on dust a bit though unfortunately. Sitting at 1800 and missing both rag and black knight. Should I craft rag and throw in a second assassinate in place of black knight? Rag seems like a tougher spot to fill if i instead craft black knight first.
Love the deck idea and write-up, going to try it out some this weekend. I've been looking for a good deck to play when I don't want a miracle rogue induced headache.
I'm short on dust a bit though unfortunately. Sitting at 1800 and missing both rag and black knight. Should I craft rag and throw in a second assassinate in place of black knight? Rag seems like a tougher spot to fill if i instead craft black knight first.
Try a second argent commander in place of Rag if you have it. Maybe try another sap for BK?
Love the deck idea and write-up, going to try it out some this weekend. I've been looking for a good deck to play when I don't want a miracle rogue induced headache.
I'm short on dust a bit though unfortunately. Sitting at 1800 and missing both rag and black knight. Should I craft rag and throw in a second assassinate in place of black knight? Rag seems like a tougher spot to fill if i instead craft black knight first.
Love the deck idea and write-up, going to try it out some this weekend. I've been looking for a good deck to play when I don't want a miracle rogue induced headache.
I'm short on dust a bit though unfortunately. Sitting at 1800 and missing both rag and black knight. Should I craft rag and throw in a second assassinate in place of black knight? Rag seems like a tougher spot to fill if i instead craft black knight first.
Try a second argent commander in place of Rag if you have it. Maybe try another sap for BK?
You can go with what BenDavis said that will suffice until you get them, I think those choices are fine replacements. Now when it comes to choosing which one to craft first and second that is on you. Rag and the Black Knight are both very unique, they both are also better against Control decks than aggro decks. What I would suggest is looking at your other decks and crafting the one that fits with your other decks are your first choice to craft. I crafted Rag before crafting the black knight myself, though since crafting the black knight I have never removed him from my deck while I have removed Rag a couple times.
I can't help but feel like adding some of those back in might help us a bit.
Yeah but it would be OP if we had them back : P it would help us a little to much, to be far rogue is doing fine. Priest and Paladin are the ones in need of love right now.
Now after all the hyping I did about ERF I know I might get some crap for removing them now, but I still think they are a viable card to utilize in a rogue deck. In a matter of fact last week a rogue won Friday Night swiss and ran an Earthen Ring Farseer, so it is still a viable card. (Link to Deck List http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/managrind/content/8140-managrinds-na-friday-night-swiss-14) If you want to continue to run ERF then go ahead it is not a bad option. There are multiple reasons why I removed it, for starters since this deck was posted the amount of aggro in the meta has decreased. ERF works best against aggressive decks, while against control decks it can be l little lack luster. I think you can still justify running one ERF, but I think 2 is a little much. If the meta becomes aggressive again ERF will be a consideration.
So why Gnomish Inventor? well 2 reasons, I find card draw to be vital. Being able to get to more of your deck means being able to get to the cards you need quicker, and it also gives you more options, so I highly value card draw. Also the rogue does lack a 4 drop that can be played down on turn 4 regardless of the board. (Defender requires minions and leeroy is a finisher) So Gnomish Inventor fulfills both of these needs and I have found it to be very helpful. Also With Defender of Argus, Gnomish Inventor turns into a sen'jin. In a matter of fact I went from rank 14 to rank 8 before dropping a single game with this adjustment.
I can't help but feel like adding some of those back in might help us a bit.
Yeah but it would be OP if we had them back : P it would help us a little to much, to be far rogue is doing fine. Priest and Paladin are the ones in need of love right now.
I don't think Christonya is asking for all of them to come back, that would be OP, but it would be nice if some came back. Personally, I think that I Adrenaline Rush would be great as a 2-mana card (w/o combo worse than Novice Engineer - w/ combo better than Arcane Intellect). And I think it's safe to say that VanCleef needs some love when Miracle Rogue (which was basically built to power VanCleef) won't even run him anymore.
I can't help but feel like adding some of those back in might help us a bit.
Yeah but it would be OP if we had them back : P it would help us a little to much, to be far rogue is doing fine. Priest and Paladin are the ones in need of love right now.
I don't think Christonya is asking for all of them to come back, that would be OP, but it would be nice if some came back. Personally, I think that I Adrenaline Rush would be great as a 2-mana card (w/o combo worse than Novice Engineer - w/ combo better than Arcane Intellect). And I think it's safe to say that VanCleef needs some love when Miracle Rogue (which was basically built to power VanCleef) won't even run him anymore.
Pretty much I was only really thinking of Adren rush, I think that alone would be HUGE for us. There are other things i would like to see such as: Stealth on edwin (Since all legendaries should do some thing when played) Some changes to our epic cards so that they are useful. (Obv prep is but only in one deck archtype)
I can't help but feel like adding some of those back in might help us a bit.
Yeah but it would be OP if we had them back : P it would help us a little to much, to be far rogue is doing fine. Priest and Paladin are the ones in need of love right now.
I don't think Christonya is asking for all of them to come back, that would be OP, but it would be nice if some came back. Personally, I think that I Adrenaline Rush would be great as a 2-mana card (w/o combo worse than Novice Engineer - w/ combo better than Arcane Intellect). And I think it's safe to say that VanCleef needs some love when Miracle Rogue (which was basically built to power VanCleef) won't even run him anymore.
Having any of them back would be OP, Adrenaline rush is broken in rogue, even for 2 mana. Prep+Adreline rush D : (0 mana 2 cards for miracle rogue) even so a 2 mana card draw is still super powerful by itself, rogue would just have to many ways to abuse it with all of our 0 mana spells. Making it 3 mana would be the only thing that would work but at that point it would just be a more powerful Arcane Intellect, so instead of that they just removed it from the game. It was over powered.
I can't help but feel like adding some of those back in might help us a bit.
Yeah but it would be OP if we had them back : P it would help us a little to much, to be far rogue is doing fine. Priest and Paladin are the ones in need of love right now.
I don't think Christonya is asking for all of them to come back, that would be OP, but it would be nice if some came back. Personally, I think that I Adrenaline Rush would be great as a 2-mana card (w/o combo worse than Novice Engineer - w/ combo better than Arcane Intellect). And I think it's safe to say that VanCleef needs some love when Miracle Rogue (which was basically built to power VanCleef) won't even run him anymore.
Pretty much I was only really thinking of Adren rush, I think that alone would be HUGE for us. There are other things i would like to see such as: Stealth on edwin (Since all legendaries should do some thing when played) Some changes to our epic cards so that they are useful. (Obv prep is but only in one deck archtype)
I would like it to, but it is just to powerful. Your opponent basically has absolutely no way to deal with a huge Vancleef except for taunt. Imagine if your opponent played down a 10/10 Vancleef with stealth on turn 4, then if you do not have a taunt you just lose. Its so powerful, anyways rogue is doing just fine, I am now at rank 5 and I haven't even dropped a single game since rank 14, that is over 7 ranks without a single loss. I personally think rogue is doing just fine.
I like the looks of this deck and I 100% agree with your views on running earthen ring in rogue decks, I've run him myself before. I run double defias instead of squires in my own midrange deck but I think I will make the swap as well. Gnomish inventor is also underrated in midrange rogue imo, its cool to see other people that aren't afraid to use cards that aren't part of the cool kids club. I think I might take your deck for a spin, midrange/tempo rogue is my favorite playstyle.
Gnomish Inventor use to be a standerd, but was removed for more popular cards following the alpha : D He is a solid card with good durability and card draw : ) Hope you enjoy my deck ! please tell me how it goes for you : D
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Yes I do up vote everyone who post in my threads as a thanx for taking the time to look at and comment on my post.
Aggro has depleted in the meta, so now having a consist source of higher damage output every turn is very useful. Without all the aggro and board flooding happening it is hard to justify running fan of knives.
MORE IMPORTANTLY VIDEO UPDATES
I have added some gameplay of this deck in both tournament and ranked play. A lot fo people have trouble with Handlock and Hunter so I have posted a video for each of those decks, and I plan on updating it for the rest. Please enjoy.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Yes I do up vote everyone who post in my threads as a thanx for taking the time to look at and comment on my post.
Dark, for my own curiosity are you still running 2x inventors for the card draw?
No, running Yeti's, Inventors do not pack enough punch for the current meta. Against hunters you can only play down 2 minions at a time, you need to have those minions pack as much power as possible. Personally even I am struggling in the current meta with tempo rogue, just not sure if it is suited right now, ramp druid is a bitch, aggro hunter is a bitch, aggro warrior is a bitch and those three classes are every where right now. A week ago the meta was just fine, was at rank 3 and was almost to legend, already back at rank 8, kind of ridiculous. The meta is just so crazy right now, you make one adjustment to your deck to counter things next you know that thing is gone and now something else is there you need to adjust to, and it just happens over and over. Zoolock was not an issue nor was mid-range hunter or Watcher driud, But aggro hunter, ramp driud and aggro warrior are a real problem that I am still working on how to deal with consistently successfully without hurting my advantage against other decks. The meta is so damn volatile right now. Thats why I haven't made an update yet, because I haven't even figured out what to run yet.
is this rogue capable of being play at legend rank and can deal with any class? Have been looking for a good rogue deck to play. Miracle seem too fragile
is this rogue capable of being play at legend rank and can deal with any class? Have been looking for a good rogue deck to play. Miracle seem too fragile
No, I wish it was but it is not. Aggro Hunter, Ramp Druid, and Aggro Warrior are a real pain. though if you can face nothing but Zoolock, mid-range hunter, watcher druid and control warrior you should be fine.
Its not the class, its what variant the class is using. Once those variants become less popular this deck is a great choice.
I figured, have you thought about running a single sprint for the card draw to replace inventors?
Thought about it, but I am more concerned about aggro then control right now. Sprint is better against control decks because you can afford to spend an entire turn on card draw, but against aggro you cannot. Thinking about Ooze + Senjin, would help deal with the bows and axes.
Though I agree with you that any tempo deck needs card draw in order to maintain tempo late game. Just only so much space in a deck. To tell you the truth tempo rogue has been giving me a headache, been playing around with my Dragonsword Rogue in ranked recently, going well. Got back my rank 7 hoping to be 5 by Saturday.
I figured, have you thought about running a single sprint for the card draw to replace inventors?
Thought about it, but I am more concerned about aggro then control right now. Sprint is better against control decks because you can afford to spend an entire turn on card draw, but against aggro you cannot. Thinking about Ooze + Senjin, would help deal with the bows and axes.
Though I agree with you that any tempo deck needs card draw in order to maintain tempo late game. Just only so much space in a deck. To tell you the truth tempo rogue has been giving me a headache, been playing around with my Dragonsword Rogue in ranked recently, going well. Got back my rank 7 hoping to be 5 by Saturday.
Im limited by cards unfortunately.. else I would probably play miracle personally... But i'm sure my mid range hunter combo deck will still all out be better
It was removed in the Alpha because it was incredibly broken. Rogue was genuinely overpowered in the alpha and beta versions of the game.
Shiv used to also cost 1 mana, backstab would do damage to damaged creatures, Van Cleef had stealth when he went down, and the rogue hero ability allowed you to give your weapon +1 damage for 2 mana if you had a weapon out.
He is right, it was broken and OP, 2 cards for 1 mana is insane. Adrenaline Rush was one of the best cards in the game, it was also our only good form of card draw. People complain about other classes and cards getting nerfed but as you can see No class has ever been nerfed harder than the rogue was.
Yes I do up vote everyone who post in my threads as a thanx for taking the time to look at and comment on my post.
I can't help but feel like adding some of those back in might help us a bit.
Love the deck idea and write-up, going to try it out some this weekend. I've been looking for a good deck to play when I don't want a miracle rogue induced headache.
I'm short on dust a bit though unfortunately. Sitting at 1800 and missing both rag and black knight. Should I craft rag and throw in a second assassinate in place of black knight? Rag seems like a tougher spot to fill if i instead craft black knight first.
Try a second argent commander in place of Rag if you have it. Maybe try another sap for BK?
You can go with what BenDavis said that will suffice until you get them, I think those choices are fine replacements. Now when it comes to choosing which one to craft first and second that is on you. Rag and the Black Knight are both very unique, they both are also better against Control decks than aggro decks. What I would suggest is looking at your other decks and crafting the one that fits with your other decks are your first choice to craft. I crafted Rag before crafting the black knight myself, though since crafting the black knight I have never removed him from my deck while I have removed Rag a couple times.
Yeah but it would be OP if we had them back : P it would help us a little to much, to be far rogue is doing fine. Priest and Paladin are the ones in need of love right now.
Yes I do up vote everyone who post in my threads as a thanx for taking the time to look at and comment on my post.
Decklist Update 4/5/2014
Earthen Ring Farseers for Gnomish Inventors Reasoning
Now after all the hyping I did about ERF I know I might get some crap for removing them now, but I still think they are a viable card to utilize in a rogue deck. In a matter of fact last week a rogue won Friday Night swiss and ran an Earthen Ring Farseer, so it is still a viable card. (Link to Deck List http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/managrind/content/8140-managrinds-na-friday-night-swiss-14) If you want to continue to run ERF then go ahead it is not a bad option. There are multiple reasons why I removed it, for starters since this deck was posted the amount of aggro in the meta has decreased. ERF works best against aggressive decks, while against control decks it can be l little lack luster. I think you can still justify running one ERF, but I think 2 is a little much. If the meta becomes aggressive again ERF will be a consideration.
So why Gnomish Inventor? well 2 reasons, I find card draw to be vital. Being able to get to more of your deck means being able to get to the cards you need quicker, and it also gives you more options, so I highly value card draw. Also the rogue does lack a 4 drop that can be played down on turn 4 regardless of the board. (Defender requires minions and leeroy is a finisher) So Gnomish Inventor fulfills both of these needs and I have found it to be very helpful. Also With Defender of Argus, Gnomish Inventor turns into a sen'jin. In a matter of fact I went from rank 14 to rank 8 before dropping a single game with this adjustment.
Next On the chopping Board: Fan of Knives
I still like this card, but if control continues making a comeback the removal of this card will be in high consideration. I will consider replacing it with one these 4 as of right now. Earthen Ring Farseer, Assassin's Blade, Perdition's Blade, or another Argent Commander.
Though as of the current meta this card works just fine.
Yes I do up vote everyone who post in my threads as a thanx for taking the time to look at and comment on my post.
I don't think Christonya is asking for all of them to come back, that would be OP, but it would be nice if some came back. Personally, I think that I Adrenaline Rush would be great as a 2-mana card (w/o combo worse than Novice Engineer - w/ combo better than Arcane Intellect). And I think it's safe to say that VanCleef needs some love when Miracle Rogue (which was basically built to power VanCleef) won't even run him anymore.
Pretty much I was only really thinking of Adren rush, I think that alone would be HUGE for us. There are other things i would like to see such as: Stealth on edwin (Since all legendaries should do some thing when played) Some changes to our epic cards so that they are useful. (Obv prep is but only in one deck archtype)
Having any of them back would be OP, Adrenaline rush is broken in rogue, even for 2 mana. Prep+Adreline rush D : (0 mana 2 cards for miracle rogue) even so a 2 mana card draw is still super powerful by itself, rogue would just have to many ways to abuse it with all of our 0 mana spells. Making it 3 mana would be the only thing that would work but at that point it would just be a more powerful Arcane Intellect, so instead of that they just removed it from the game. It was over powered.
I would like it to, but it is just to powerful. Your opponent basically has absolutely no way to deal with a huge Vancleef except for taunt. Imagine if your opponent played down a 10/10 Vancleef with stealth on turn 4, then if you do not have a taunt you just lose. Its so powerful, anyways rogue is doing just fine, I am now at rank 5 and I haven't even dropped a single game since rank 14, that is over 7 ranks without a single loss. I personally think rogue is doing just fine.
Yes I do up vote everyone who post in my threads as a thanx for taking the time to look at and comment on my post.
Gnomish Inventor use to be a standerd, but was removed for more popular cards following the alpha : D He is a solid card with good durability and card draw : ) Hope you enjoy my deck ! please tell me how it goes for you : D
Yes I do up vote everyone who post in my threads as a thanx for taking the time to look at and comment on my post.
THREAD UPDATE
Reasoning for Assassin's Blade over Fan of Knives
Aggro has depleted in the meta, so now having a consist source of higher damage output every turn is very useful. Without all the aggro and board flooding happening it is hard to justify running fan of knives.
MORE IMPORTANTLY VIDEO UPDATES
I have added some gameplay of this deck in both tournament and ranked play. A lot fo people have trouble with Handlock and Hunter so I have posted a video for each of those decks, and I plan on updating it for the rest. Please enjoy.
Yes I do up vote everyone who post in my threads as a thanx for taking the time to look at and comment on my post.
Dark, for my own curiosity are you still running 2x inventors for the card draw?
No, running Yeti's, Inventors do not pack enough punch for the current meta. Against hunters you can only play down 2 minions at a time, you need to have those minions pack as much power as possible. Personally even I am struggling in the current meta with tempo rogue, just not sure if it is suited right now, ramp druid is a bitch, aggro hunter is a bitch, aggro warrior is a bitch and those three classes are every where right now. A week ago the meta was just fine, was at rank 3 and was almost to legend, already back at rank 8, kind of ridiculous. The meta is just so crazy right now, you make one adjustment to your deck to counter things next you know that thing is gone and now something else is there you need to adjust to, and it just happens over and over. Zoolock was not an issue nor was mid-range hunter or Watcher driud, But aggro hunter, ramp driud and aggro warrior are a real problem that I am still working on how to deal with consistently successfully without hurting my advantage against other decks. The meta is so damn volatile right now. Thats why I haven't made an update yet, because I haven't even figured out what to run yet.
Yes I do up vote everyone who post in my threads as a thanx for taking the time to look at and comment on my post.
is this rogue capable of being play at legend rank and can deal with any class? Have been looking for a good rogue deck to play. Miracle seem too fragile
No, I wish it was but it is not. Aggro Hunter, Ramp Druid, and Aggro Warrior are a real pain. though if you can face nothing but Zoolock, mid-range hunter, watcher druid and control warrior you should be fine.
Its not the class, its what variant the class is using. Once those variants become less popular this deck is a great choice.
Yes I do up vote everyone who post in my threads as a thanx for taking the time to look at and comment on my post.
I figured, have you thought about running a single sprint for the card draw to replace inventors?
Thought about it, but I am more concerned about aggro then control right now. Sprint is better against control decks because you can afford to spend an entire turn on card draw, but against aggro you cannot. Thinking about Ooze + Senjin, would help deal with the bows and axes.
Though I agree with you that any tempo deck needs card draw in order to maintain tempo late game. Just only so much space in a deck. To tell you the truth tempo rogue has been giving me a headache, been playing around with my Dragonsword Rogue in ranked recently, going well. Got back my rank 7 hoping to be 5 by Saturday.
Yes I do up vote everyone who post in my threads as a thanx for taking the time to look at and comment on my post.
Im limited by cards unfortunately.. else I would probably play miracle personally... But i'm sure my mid range hunter combo deck will still all out be better
Tried it out and won first try against a Hunter. Survived the shittiest of shitstorms with an Assassin's Blade, Deadly Poison and Blade Flurry combo :)
Don't have much of an collection so i had to replace all legendaries and the SI:7 Agent.
Running with a second Assassinate, Assassin's Blade, Argent Commander, Fan of Knives and Sap