That leads to my last note: Redemption, since the 'nerfs' hit where you can't trigger your own secrets, is a more or less useless secret outside of arena IMHO. They can play around it and with so many hero abilities doing 1 dmg, unless the opponent really makes a mistake, it's not that much value. I personally think 'get down' would be a much better addition to this type of deck.
I play with another deck, totally different from this, but I use Redemption too and you know what? Tirion with Redemption is worth enough to put it in this quantity. Moreover, I see Sylvanas there, it seems to gain even more value from this secret. Even if it usually revives minions with Divine Shield, just as I'm doing in my deck, it's still profit, cause there's rarely anyone who can pull off combo for 3 mana that can kill Shielded Minibot, silence him and kill him again, and even if - it costs really high price of cards and mana effort.
Redemption is good at all - it just needs to find a good use in a proper deck.
I personally prefer reliable cards or cards that can and do have an immediate effect on the board. You telegraph redemption because you don't play your hero power, and given that, the opponent will prioritize the minion worth the least (no deathrattle/divine shield/whatever) and go for that. Yes, turn 3, you can't remove a shielded - chances are, with 1 minion on the board, you wont be removing him turn 2 either. What do you play turn 3? Can THAT be easily removed without an effect for you? Probably so. It also prevents Muster for Battle - hands down the best non-legendary Paladin card.
In my opinion, and it always was just that, redemption is a pretty bad card and not worth including in any deck that I can/have thought of. There are just better cards to include, even for that 1 mana slot.
Have to disagree re Redemption, it's been $ for me, especially since I added Annoy-O-Tron and other taunts - they can't "prioritize the minion worth the least and go for that" - and it stalls the game long enough to bring out the big boys.
Redemption has been killer for me as well, and I was going to say the same thing.
The key is including minions that work well with Redeption, and up to G&G there hasn't been enough of them. Post-nerf Redemption has been bad because the nightmare is that, say, a Yeti will come back at 1 health, then it just eats a 1/1 or a Hero Power that same turn for no value. To avoid that, basically anything with Divine Shield, a decent Deathrattle, or even Stealth is good. The minion set I'm running now includes Minibot, Annoy-o-Tron, Mad Scientist, Shade of Naxxramas, and Harvest Golem. Belcher would be a good addition to that, although I'm not running it atm. But sure, you do have to avoid running things that don't work with Redemption, or at least be smart and sparing in using them (I have 1x Blood Knight), and of course avoid telegraphing Redemption by being mana efficient during early turns.
For those questioning Scientist and the full 2x Redemption, keep in mind how Redemptions chain together. Say you lead out with Redemption, a good Turn 1 play for this deck, then you make Turn 2 Scientist. Scientist will grab Avenge because it's the only one left, then Redemption will trigger. If you run just 1x Redemption, that redeemed Scientist's Deathrattle is dead because you already have Avenge out. But if you run the package, then you've got a beating in store for the next time the opponent tries to kill something.
On Muster for Battle's use along with Redemption, it's obviously not necessary in the first place if the OP's deck does run it, but take it from a player who is running the Muster-Quartermaster combo. If you opened with at least 2 minions, have a Redemption that hasn't gone off yet, and you still need the reload from Muster, then most certainly one of two things has happened:
One, your opponent is attacking past your minions, such as in the Hunter Matchup. In that event, they will likely continue to attack past your minions after you Muster. What you need there is a Taunt like Belcher, Annoy-o-Tron or Coghammer, at which point both your Redemption and Muster are now live. If you don't have a Taunt and they suddenly turn on your minions, it's because they expect the combo next turn. Even in that corner-case event, consider that redeemed 1/1 to be a 3/3 for purposes of Redemption because you are sticking Quartermaster.
Second case, you had multiple minions out including Scientist, then they all got wiped simultaneously by Consecration, Hellfire, Shadowflame etc. In all other cases, you are leading with Scientist and trading it, buffing it, or both, such that it doesn't die last. As an aside, be aware that Explosive Trap should always give you your pick due to the fact that you can throw your Soldier tokens into his minions (he won't attack them on his turn). At the end of the day, this happens in the case of a wipe from a Control deck. Only, now you have Muster, and you are now in the ideal situation for Muster because you know your opponent is down one wipe. Again, if they start eating your 1/1's with their minions on the following turn in anticipation of the combo, then consider that 1/1 a 3/3. 3/3's for 1 mana are good, last I had a look. But in most cases with or without Quartermaster, you Muster, he either plays brand new minions and passes or goes face with his existing minions, and at the very least you can then throw your Soldiers at his minions to avoid triggering Redemption if that's the line you need to take.
It is also a non-zero number of games where I have won because a Soldier token was Redeemed, then it took a Blessing of Kings/Might for lethal, whether or not in combination with some direct damage to close out. Weapon swings and Hero Powers only happen once per turn, and that is one time too few to completely clear the board.
One other negative I have heard against Muster, no, it doesn't hurt Paladin's ability to run other Weapons at all. You are never playing Muster on the same turn you played another weapon. You play it after Muster and you are overwriting a Light's Justice, big deal, which may even be a net positive with Harrison running around. Having played a weapon prior to Muster, you get one swing on the turn you played it, then another swing on that next turn as you play Muster. Truesilver is now gone. If Coghammer, I am not punching myself in the face for losing a Coghammer charge. You pass with a 4 durability Light's Justice out, worst is you gave Harrison an extra card, but that's what Divine Favor is for. Bottom line, Muster doesn't overwrite your important weapons, or even dictate when you're using them.
One final suggestion, I don't see how the deck isn't just better with Blessing of Might. Beyond being 3/4 of a Kings a lot of the time on Shielded minions, it is also the #1 most important card I have found against Hunter/Zoo. If you can trade it with an Undertaker, you're probably going to win. It also helps you get there way, way earlier if you opt for Blessed Champion combos. Just generally too, it seems to be the thing that puts enough pressure early to make sure minions get attacked or responded to, which creates the Redemption value. This deck is much more effective as the aggressor, or else you quickly find that Consecration is not the card it once was, particularly without Equality. Not to mention Equality and Divine Favor each becoming somewhat better.
Something I wanted to ask, has anyone tried a Mech minion-set with this deck? Minibot, Annoy-o-Tron, Shredders, and Harvest Golem are all distinctly live cards with Redemption out. I know Blizzard wasn't incredibly generous with our class mech, but maybe picking up Mechwarper, Cogmaster and possibly Jeeves could be a positive. I have not tried it because I'm getting amazing results with Shade of Naxxramas against Wallet Warriors and Handlocks at my rank, but I'd imagine at a tier where aggro starts getting played more again that it might be good. And I'm not extremely hot on Sylvannus, Sky Golem, Belchers, and Follow the Rules right now, either. I tried a steeper curve and Divine Favor became terrible, Turn 6-7 kills weren't happening anymore, and it just didn't feel like the deck I was used to.
The thing that you need to take care of when you play Redemption, is the timing of your playing the minions. Redemption will ressurect the minion played just after the secret hit the table, in case there is a mass removal. It's a great card but it requires a specific board state to be made effective, which means that you need your taunts before your tokens. You never want Redemption to bring a Silver hand recruit back over something else that you paid from your hand.
Obviously, Redemption is amazing with Divine shields and Deathrattles, but I wouldn't run Avenge in a secret deck. I'd first choose to run 2 Noble Sacrifices and see how it goes. Noble Sacrifice is huge tempo swing if drawn early because during the first turns it's crucial to keep your board presence.
The thing that you need to take care of when you play Redemption, is the timing of your playing the minions. Redemption will ressurect the minion played just after the secret hit the table, in case there is a mass removal. It's a great card but it requires a specific board state to be made effective, which means that you need your taunts before your tokens. You never want Redemption to bring a Silver hand recruit back over something else that you paid from your hand.
Obviously, Redemption is amazing with Divine shields and Deathrattles, but I wouldn't run Avenge in a secret deck. I'd first choose to run 2 Noble Sacrifices and see how it goes. Noble Sacrifice is huge tempo swing if drawn early because during the first turns it's crucial to keep your board presence.
Why not run Avenge? Granted, it hasn't been as consistently value as Redemption, but it's still been good. I have been tempted to try and find a spot for a Noble Sac or two, but I've been on a roll, so if it ain't broke, don't fix it, right?
I'm personally not a huge fan of Noble Sacrifice, the potential value is so much lower than the Avenge buff or Redeeming eg. a deathrattle minion like a Belcher or Shredder or a divine shield minion.
Simply because Avenge requires 2 minions, while Noble Sacrifice shines in situation that trading is of high importance, like in the first 2 turns protecting that Knife Juggler before you Muster for Battle.
Simply because Avenge requires 2 minions, while Noble Sacrifice shines in situation that trading is of high importance, like in the first 2 turns protecting that Knife Juggler before you Muster for Battle.
Makes sense, but this thread is re to the OP's deck (which I'm running) which doesn't run either of those cards.
It's a debate between Avenge and Noble Sacrifice. If I had to choose between the two, I'd definitely go with the Sacrifice. Also, the example is just a figure of speech. I mean Noble Sacrifice protecting any early minion AND killing the minion that tried to trade is golden.
It's a debate between Avenge and Noble Sacrifice. If I had to choose between the two, I'd definitely go with the Sacrifice. Also, the example is just a figure of speech. I mean Noble Sacrifice protecting any early minion AND killing the minion that tried to trade is golden.
What about mid-late game, has it been equally useful? I'm not arguing your point, I'm curious since I've never tried running it.
It's a debate between Avenge and Noble Sacrifice. If I had to choose between the two, I'd definitely go with the Sacrifice. Also, the example is just a figure of speech. I mean Noble Sacrifice protecting any early minion AND killing the minion that tried to trade is golden.
What about mid-late game, has it been equally useful? I'm not arguing your point, I'm curious since I've never tried running it.
I'll try out at least one and see how it goes.
It depends on the state of the board. I can't really tell. Sometimes it will stop that Huffer from getting to your face when you are low and sometimes it will just kill a token that happened to attack first. Late game Noble Sacrifice requires clear board. Just like anything else to be honest.
Yeah, one ding against Sacrifice is that it's probably the most successfully predicted Paladin secret, atm. I would often lose it to Druid and Rogue Hero Powers, and it never kills anything in any MU for me. Hunters lead with Undertakers, and no one plays 3/2's anymore. Besides, any deck running Scientist will correctly mulligan away any secret other than Redemption, which makes Get Down unavailable most of the time during the window where it might be useful to get you some tempo. Still, cases where that tempo is actually worth a card are rare, as in the example with Knife Juggler, since you're only somewhat ahead of what Arcane Missiles could've gotten you. For that matter, you'd basically never need a Get Down to protect the set of early minions you'd be running with Redemption, that being mostly Deathrattles and Divine Shields.
Avenge, for its part, is quite good. If it gets onto a Shielded Minibot early, you are getting in for at least 3 extra damage with it, and you are chomping Belchers at the cost of the shield. Specifically, Avenge (and Might) along with this minion set is really what makes the deck work against Control Warriors. Fiery Win Axe doesn't win against it. Control Warriors can't afford to take 4-5 damage from the weapon hit against that kind of clock. They usually find it a clever play to use Death's BIte's deathrattle to pop shield, but it's not, because by Turn 5-6 they are already dead to BoK/Champion on the rebound. Even best case, they are throwing a lot of cards at it - Whirlwind/Shield Slam/Execute/Taskmaster, best possible of which being Slam. Demanding specific answers, of which are unknown to the Warrior because he's not familiar with the deck, is how Paladin thrives in that matchup.
^ Agree, Avenge really helps against control warriors who rely on predictability for their clears, they really don't seem to handle secrets well. You also do need that final boost to burst them down with BoK/BC because if you let the game drag on too long they will out control you.
Very fun fighting CWs with this deck, you can almost see their bemused expression when secrets start popping and things are not as they seem lol.
I've not played this deck yet but I have played a lot of aggro secret Pally and so I wanted to correct something that was said here. Deaths resolve in play order, regardless of when redemption was played. If there is a board wipe it WILL NOT resurrect whatever hit the board after the secret. It will resurrect whatever was on the table FIRST. It is important to note this order because (I know from practice) if a Mad Scientist fetches up a Redemption, it will immediately trigger and resurrect whatever died that was played next. If the Scientist was the last thing on the board (of the minions that died). The secret will not trigger.
So hypothetically if you have 6 mana and you have only 2 cards, a Mad Scientist and the mech w divine shield and no secrets left in deck but redemption. The proper play order would be hero power, Scientist, Mech. Because if they pop the shield then consecrate (or something similar) then the mech will come back w 1 health and shield instead of the recruit w 1 health. If you played it any other order there is a chance that the recruit is resurrected or the mech won't be.
I don't feel like that was a perfectly worded explanation but it boils down to this, AE clears resolve deaths by when the minions were played on the board and you can use that knowledge to your advantage. Any questions or clarifications just ask me.
I'm not saying you're wrong that it could cause a larger explosion if the different effects chained the right way. I'm just saying that the timing of the secret played won't change which minion gets the redemption effect if multiple minions die simultaneously and that the secret can actually resolve on creatures that died in an AE spell even if it was not on the board when the spell went off.
Im having alot of trouble vs priest!. Can someone maybe explain how im am suppose to win vs them?.
This isn't an explanation on how to win vs. them (I still consider myself a noob at rank 14), but thought I should share that I FINALLY beat one with this deck last night. It took A LOT of patience. He played Northshire T1 and I had no immediate answer to it (I considered conceding), but I had Consecrate and Coghammer + coin in hand. I hoped to get something (i.e. Truesilver) before T6, but never did, so I didn't play a single card or hero power for the first five turns while he built his board, which even caused me to be milled for 1 - which was my second consecrate, which I figured was a sign that I had blown it by playing so passively. Thankfully he didn't have any big boys/was playing a very control deck (Mind Control x 2 I think) and I stabilized. I also had Tirion in hand most of the game and NEVER played him, let him waste his MC on my smaller dudes.
So I don't know if my not playing anything T1-5 (which didn't allow for Northshire card-draw) won the game for me or if I just got lucky, but either way it felt good to finally beat one of these B!+(#e$.
I believe Secrets also resolve in play order. Important when playing Avenge and Redemption together, since they both trigger on the same event.
So if you play Redemption, then Avenge, you will have at least the minion returned by Redemption out as Avenge triggers. But if you play Avenge then Redemption and all your minions die to a wipe, Avenge has nothing to trigger on, but Redemption will trigger on the first played minion.
Deathrattles and Battlecries also occur before Secrets, but it usually doesn't matter in the case of this deck because, of course, the death of the Scientist won't cause his secret to trigger because it wasn't out. However, a Harvest Golem out by itself will trigger Avenge onto the 2/1 when it dies.
I have noticed odd behavior from the game though that I had to assume was a bug. Once a Mage had 2 Explosive Sheep out against a minibot who'd lost shield, they pinged one of the sheeps who both died as one animation, then the result was a redeemed 2/1 minibot with NO shield. It was possible I was getting interface lag.
Secrets *do* resolve in play order. That is an important note that I totally forgot about.
TBH, Im not sure about the deathrattle part. It seems to be pretty inconsistent. Or I'm just confused when I try to make note of it. *shrug* Im not sure. I believe the way that it works is based on when the minion was played relative to the secret. I think that when a minion dies it creates a stack (to use Magic: The Gathering terms) of effects based on when they were played. So the Harvest Golem dies and it decides to either resolve deathrattle then secret or secret then deathrattle depending on which was played first. If the secret checks before the deathrattle resolves then Avenge won't trigger because there are no other minions on the board. So in your example, the Damaged Golem would get the buff only if the secret was played after the Harvest Golem. I'm not actually sure as I have had lone Harvest Golems (or Haunted Creepers) die with Avenge on the field and buff the tokens. I've also had it happen where the tokens did not get buffed. TBH tho, it would explain your situation. I will detail that at the end.
Battlecrys of course do resolve first. Not that it matters to this deck but for instance a Mage will get a buffed copy of a minion that buffs itself w/battlecry. (Frostwolf Warlord, the Pirate that buffs on Wep attack etc)
As for your odd situation. I'm actually pretty sure that resolved correctly, if my theory of DR/Secret resolution is correct. Here is the sequence of events as I see it by your description.
1. Mage pings Explosive Sheep. Sheep dies triggering his battlecry.
2. Sheep battlecry kills both the other Sheep and the Shielded Minibot. Causing both the secret effect and the Sheep's deathrattle to trigger. If the secret was played first, it resolves first.
3. Your Shielded Minibot gets the Redemption effect THEN the 2nd Explosive Sheep's deathrattle goes off and removes your minibot's new Divine Shield.
Again, I'm not actually 100% sure on this but its the only explanation I can come up with that explains why sometime's Deathrattle's resolve first and sometimes Secrets resolve first.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I really don't mind not making a dude if I want Redemption to proc on something else, it's not asking that much..
New, much better video up!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEsmbke6rNw
Have to disagree re Redemption, it's been $ for me, especially since I added Annoy-O-Tron and other taunts - they can't "prioritize the minion worth the least and go for that" - and it stalls the game long enough to bring out the big boys.
Redemption has been killer for me as well, and I was going to say the same thing.
The key is including minions that work well with Redeption, and up to G&G there hasn't been enough of them. Post-nerf Redemption has been bad because the nightmare is that, say, a Yeti will come back at 1 health, then it just eats a 1/1 or a Hero Power that same turn for no value. To avoid that, basically anything with Divine Shield, a decent Deathrattle, or even Stealth is good. The minion set I'm running now includes Minibot, Annoy-o-Tron, Mad Scientist, Shade of Naxxramas, and Harvest Golem. Belcher would be a good addition to that, although I'm not running it atm. But sure, you do have to avoid running things that don't work with Redemption, or at least be smart and sparing in using them (I have 1x Blood Knight), and of course avoid telegraphing Redemption by being mana efficient during early turns.
For those questioning Scientist and the full 2x Redemption, keep in mind how Redemptions chain together. Say you lead out with Redemption, a good Turn 1 play for this deck, then you make Turn 2 Scientist. Scientist will grab Avenge because it's the only one left, then Redemption will trigger. If you run just 1x Redemption, that redeemed Scientist's Deathrattle is dead because you already have Avenge out. But if you run the package, then you've got a beating in store for the next time the opponent tries to kill something.
On Muster for Battle's use along with Redemption, it's obviously not necessary in the first place if the OP's deck does run it, but take it from a player who is running the Muster-Quartermaster combo. If you opened with at least 2 minions, have a Redemption that hasn't gone off yet, and you still need the reload from Muster, then most certainly one of two things has happened:
One, your opponent is attacking past your minions, such as in the Hunter Matchup. In that event, they will likely continue to attack past your minions after you Muster. What you need there is a Taunt like Belcher, Annoy-o-Tron or Coghammer, at which point both your Redemption and Muster are now live. If you don't have a Taunt and they suddenly turn on your minions, it's because they expect the combo next turn. Even in that corner-case event, consider that redeemed 1/1 to be a 3/3 for purposes of Redemption because you are sticking Quartermaster.
Second case, you had multiple minions out including Scientist, then they all got wiped simultaneously by Consecration, Hellfire, Shadowflame etc. In all other cases, you are leading with Scientist and trading it, buffing it, or both, such that it doesn't die last. As an aside, be aware that Explosive Trap should always give you your pick due to the fact that you can throw your Soldier tokens into his minions (he won't attack them on his turn). At the end of the day, this happens in the case of a wipe from a Control deck. Only, now you have Muster, and you are now in the ideal situation for Muster because you know your opponent is down one wipe. Again, if they start eating your 1/1's with their minions on the following turn in anticipation of the combo, then consider that 1/1 a 3/3. 3/3's for 1 mana are good, last I had a look. But in most cases with or without Quartermaster, you Muster, he either plays brand new minions and passes or goes face with his existing minions, and at the very least you can then throw your Soldiers at his minions to avoid triggering Redemption if that's the line you need to take.
It is also a non-zero number of games where I have won because a Soldier token was Redeemed, then it took a Blessing of Kings/Might for lethal, whether or not in combination with some direct damage to close out. Weapon swings and Hero Powers only happen once per turn, and that is one time too few to completely clear the board.
One other negative I have heard against Muster, no, it doesn't hurt Paladin's ability to run other Weapons at all. You are never playing Muster on the same turn you played another weapon. You play it after Muster and you are overwriting a Light's Justice, big deal, which may even be a net positive with Harrison running around. Having played a weapon prior to Muster, you get one swing on the turn you played it, then another swing on that next turn as you play Muster. Truesilver is now gone. If Coghammer, I am not punching myself in the face for losing a Coghammer charge. You pass with a 4 durability Light's Justice out, worst is you gave Harrison an extra card, but that's what Divine Favor is for. Bottom line, Muster doesn't overwrite your important weapons, or even dictate when you're using them.
One final suggestion, I don't see how the deck isn't just better with Blessing of Might. Beyond being 3/4 of a Kings a lot of the time on Shielded minions, it is also the #1 most important card I have found against Hunter/Zoo. If you can trade it with an Undertaker, you're probably going to win. It also helps you get there way, way earlier if you opt for Blessed Champion combos. Just generally too, it seems to be the thing that puts enough pressure early to make sure minions get attacked or responded to, which creates the Redemption value. This deck is much more effective as the aggressor, or else you quickly find that Consecration is not the card it once was, particularly without Equality. Not to mention Equality and Divine Favor each becoming somewhat better.
Something I wanted to ask, has anyone tried a Mech minion-set with this deck? Minibot, Annoy-o-Tron, Shredders, and Harvest Golem are all distinctly live cards with Redemption out. I know Blizzard wasn't incredibly generous with our class mech, but maybe picking up Mechwarper, Cogmaster and possibly Jeeves could be a positive. I have not tried it because I'm getting amazing results with Shade of Naxxramas against Wallet Warriors and Handlocks at my rank, but I'd imagine at a tier where aggro starts getting played more again that it might be good. And I'm not extremely hot on Sylvannus, Sky Golem, Belchers, and Follow the Rules right now, either. I tried a steeper curve and Divine Favor became terrible, Turn 6-7 kills weren't happening anymore, and it just didn't feel like the deck I was used to.
The thing that you need to take care of when you play Redemption, is the timing of your playing the minions. Redemption will ressurect the minion played just after the secret hit the table, in case there is a mass removal. It's a great card but it requires a specific board state to be made effective, which means that you need your taunts before your tokens. You never want Redemption to bring a Silver hand recruit back over something else that you paid from your hand.
Obviously, Redemption is amazing with Divine shields and Deathrattles, but I wouldn't run Avenge in a secret deck. I'd first choose to run 2 Noble Sacrifices and see how it goes. Noble Sacrifice is huge tempo swing if drawn early because during the first turns it's crucial to keep your board presence.
Why not run Avenge? Granted, it hasn't been as consistently value as Redemption, but it's still been good. I have been tempted to try and find a spot for a Noble Sac or two, but I've been on a roll, so if it ain't broke, don't fix it, right?
I'm personally not a huge fan of Noble Sacrifice, the potential value is so much lower than the Avenge buff or Redeeming eg. a deathrattle minion like a Belcher or Shredder or a divine shield minion.
Simply because Avenge requires 2 minions, while Noble Sacrifice shines in situation that trading is of high importance, like in the first 2 turns protecting that Knife Juggler before you Muster for Battle.
Makes sense, but this thread is re to the OP's deck (which I'm running) which doesn't run either of those cards.
It's a debate between Avenge and Noble Sacrifice. If I had to choose between the two, I'd definitely go with the Sacrifice. Also, the example is just a figure of speech. I mean Noble Sacrifice protecting any early minion AND killing the minion that tried to trade is golden.
What about mid-late game, has it been equally useful? I'm not arguing your point, I'm curious since I've never tried running it.
I'll try out at least one and see how it goes.
Personally I value the synergy between avenge and divines girls plus the two blessings more than what Sacrifice can do.
It depends on the state of the board. I can't really tell. Sometimes it will stop that Huffer from getting to your face when you are low and sometimes it will just kill a token that happened to attack first. Late game Noble Sacrifice requires clear board. Just like anything else to be honest.
Yeah, one ding against Sacrifice is that it's probably the most successfully predicted Paladin secret, atm. I would often lose it to Druid and Rogue Hero Powers, and it never kills anything in any MU for me. Hunters lead with Undertakers, and no one plays 3/2's anymore. Besides, any deck running Scientist will correctly mulligan away any secret other than Redemption, which makes Get Down unavailable most of the time during the window where it might be useful to get you some tempo. Still, cases where that tempo is actually worth a card are rare, as in the example with Knife Juggler, since you're only somewhat ahead of what Arcane Missiles could've gotten you. For that matter, you'd basically never need a Get Down to protect the set of early minions you'd be running with Redemption, that being mostly Deathrattles and Divine Shields.
Avenge, for its part, is quite good. If it gets onto a Shielded Minibot early, you are getting in for at least 3 extra damage with it, and you are chomping Belchers at the cost of the shield. Specifically, Avenge (and Might) along with this minion set is really what makes the deck work against Control Warriors. Fiery Win Axe doesn't win against it. Control Warriors can't afford to take 4-5 damage from the weapon hit against that kind of clock. They usually find it a clever play to use Death's BIte's deathrattle to pop shield, but it's not, because by Turn 5-6 they are already dead to BoK/Champion on the rebound. Even best case, they are throwing a lot of cards at it - Whirlwind/Shield Slam/Execute/Taskmaster, best possible of which being Slam. Demanding specific answers, of which are unknown to the Warrior because he's not familiar with the deck, is how Paladin thrives in that matchup.
^ Agree, Avenge really helps against control warriors who rely on predictability for their clears, they really don't seem to handle secrets well. You also do need that final boost to burst them down with BoK/BC because if you let the game drag on too long they will out control you.
Very fun fighting CWs with this deck, you can almost see their bemused expression when secrets start popping and things are not as they seem lol.
I've not played this deck yet but I have played a lot of aggro secret Pally and so I wanted to correct something that was said here. Deaths resolve in play order, regardless of when redemption was played. If there is a board wipe it WILL NOT resurrect whatever hit the board after the secret. It will resurrect whatever was on the table FIRST. It is important to note this order because (I know from practice) if a Mad Scientist fetches up a Redemption, it will immediately trigger and resurrect whatever died that was played next. If the Scientist was the last thing on the board (of the minions that died). The secret will not trigger.
So hypothetically if you have 6 mana and you have only 2 cards, a Mad Scientist and the mech w divine shield and no secrets left in deck but redemption. The proper play order would be hero power, Scientist, Mech. Because if they pop the shield then consecrate (or something similar) then the mech will come back w 1 health and shield instead of the recruit w 1 health. If you played it any other order there is a chance that the recruit is resurrected or the mech won't be.
I don't feel like that was a perfectly worded explanation but it boils down to this, AE clears resolve deaths by when the minions were played on the board and you can use that knowledge to your advantage. Any questions or clarifications just ask me.
I'm not saying you're wrong that it could cause a larger explosion if the different effects chained the right way. I'm just saying that the timing of the secret played won't change which minion gets the redemption effect if multiple minions die simultaneously and that the secret can actually resolve on creatures that died in an AE spell even if it was not on the board when the spell went off.
This isn't an explanation on how to win vs. them (I still consider myself a noob at rank 14), but thought I should share that I FINALLY beat one with this deck last night. It took A LOT of patience. He played Northshire T1 and I had no immediate answer to it (I considered conceding), but I had Consecrate and Coghammer + coin in hand. I hoped to get something (i.e. Truesilver) before T6, but never did, so I didn't play a single card or hero power for the first five turns while he built his board, which even caused me to be milled for 1 - which was my second consecrate, which I figured was a sign that I had blown it by playing so passively. Thankfully he didn't have any big boys/was playing a very control deck (Mind Control x 2 I think) and I stabilized. I also had Tirion in hand most of the game and NEVER played him, let him waste his MC on my smaller dudes.
So I don't know if my not playing anything T1-5 (which didn't allow for Northshire card-draw) won the game for me or if I just got lucky, but either way it felt good to finally beat one of these B!+(#e$.
I believe Secrets also resolve in play order. Important when playing Avenge and Redemption together, since they both trigger on the same event.
So if you play Redemption, then Avenge, you will have at least the minion returned by Redemption out as Avenge triggers. But if you play Avenge then Redemption and all your minions die to a wipe, Avenge has nothing to trigger on, but Redemption will trigger on the first played minion.
Deathrattles and Battlecries also occur before Secrets, but it usually doesn't matter in the case of this deck because, of course, the death of the Scientist won't cause his secret to trigger because it wasn't out. However, a Harvest Golem out by itself will trigger Avenge onto the 2/1 when it dies.
I have noticed odd behavior from the game though that I had to assume was a bug. Once a Mage had 2 Explosive Sheep out against a minibot who'd lost shield, they pinged one of the sheeps who both died as one animation, then the result was a redeemed 2/1 minibot with NO shield. It was possible I was getting interface lag.
Justice1337,
Secrets *do* resolve in play order. That is an important note that I totally forgot about.
TBH, Im not sure about the deathrattle part. It seems to be pretty inconsistent. Or I'm just confused when I try to make note of it. *shrug* Im not sure. I believe the way that it works is based on when the minion was played relative to the secret. I think that when a minion dies it creates a stack (to use Magic: The Gathering terms) of effects based on when they were played. So the Harvest Golem dies and it decides to either resolve deathrattle then secret or secret then deathrattle depending on which was played first. If the secret checks before the deathrattle resolves then Avenge won't trigger because there are no other minions on the board. So in your example, the Damaged Golem would get the buff only if the secret was played after the Harvest Golem. I'm not actually sure as I have had lone Harvest Golems (or Haunted Creepers) die with Avenge on the field and buff the tokens. I've also had it happen where the tokens did not get buffed. TBH tho, it would explain your situation. I will detail that at the end.
Battlecrys of course do resolve first. Not that it matters to this deck but for instance a Mage will get a buffed copy of a minion that buffs itself w/battlecry. (Frostwolf Warlord, the Pirate that buffs on Wep attack etc)
As for your odd situation. I'm actually pretty sure that resolved correctly, if my theory of DR/Secret resolution is correct. Here is the sequence of events as I see it by your description.
1. Mage pings Explosive Sheep. Sheep dies triggering his battlecry.
2. Sheep battlecry kills both the other Sheep and the Shielded Minibot. Causing both the secret effect and the Sheep's deathrattle to trigger. If the secret was played first, it resolves first.
3. Your Shielded Minibot gets the Redemption effect THEN the 2nd Explosive Sheep's deathrattle goes off and removes your minibot's new Divine Shield.
Again, I'm not actually 100% sure on this but its the only explanation I can come up with that explains why sometime's Deathrattle's resolve first and sometimes Secrets resolve first.