Hearthpwn

I played both, the Keleseth Rogue earlier in the season. Kept auto-losing to Spreading Plague, and above rank 3 it was like 2/3 decks were Jade Druid. With Miracle, I had a positive WR against all Druid and made Legend.

Fiery War Axe – Everyone always knew this card was overpowered. The question was whether it would be ok in the context of the Warrior class, and if not, when it was going to get changed. Pirate warrior has been in the top 3 decks since Patches was released. Also since the release of the game, I can’t remember a low-end weapon for the Warrior being released, only higher end ones like Death’s Bite. Like they said, this opens up design space for other 2-mana weapons in the future without them automatically being relegated to the sideline in favor of Win-Axe. The nerf is 100% warranted.

Murloc Warleader – I don’t believe that this is a power-level fix as much as the other ones. The way the game deals with these aura-based health buffs is legitimately confusing. If they’d fixed it to a battlecry that all murlocs gain +1 health, then an aura effect of +2 attack, that would be fine. Nerf is also fine.

Innervate – Another one like Fiery War Axe, everyone knows it’s overpowered but question is when and how bad. They could have gone a number of directions here, as they mentioned. One they didn’t discuss was making it like Preparation and reducing the next minion cast by 2 mana. Imo, that would have fixed the current issue. But, no one will be griping about Druid nerfs of any magnitude in this meta.

Spreading Plague – I like the card, but stats showed that it was too strong. I wager that it will still be played at 6 mana, though.

Paths not taken:

 Ultimate Infestation – Let’s assume for a moment that Blizzard has access to data that we don’t about what players like about their game. During the life-span of this game, what period do you think had the most troubling player trends? If I had to guess, the C’thun Warrior dominated meta of summer 2016 was among the very worst for player participation, to include the much maligned Huntertaker, Aggro Shaman and Pirate Warrior metagames. Most players don’t end up enjoying a game defined by control on control stalemates, where matches are decided by who managed to draw the fewest cards.

The issue is, answer cards need to be on average more powerful than threats in order to reach the later game, and these stalemates will automatically result where that is true. That is, unless there is a mechanism to escalate strength and resiliency of threats as the game goes on. That’s the issue I see the Jade mechanic and Jade idol pointed at – the identity of Druid as a natural foil to decks that use fatigue as a win condition, or even decks that have to stake out too much of an advantage in cards before tempo starts to become a factor.

Where Ultimate Infestation fits into that is that it reliably summons up the contents of the player’s deck without taking 30 minutes or more. You have to defeat the contents of the player’s entire deck if you want to out-control them. But as you can see in the Control Mage v Jade Druid matchup right now, that’s actually altogether possible. And when it happens, it’s a 10 minute game where both players see the writing on the wall. I see the card taking this critical role of keeping the pace of the game tolerable for the player base, which is something that Blizzard has taken care of better lately than in the past.

Maybe take a look at this video of Kibler’s for a glimpse at how Miracle is being played right now - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg0mbN8g3-Y

His list is debatable (I think Medivh is terribad), but what works in it is the DK and double Vanish. The popular decks of the meta (Jade Druid, Highlander Priest, Aggro Druid, Paladin, etc) just get out-tempo’d extremely hard by Vanish, Sap, and multiple Giants of 4 mana and lower. MrYagut and Savjz are also running the DK and 2x Vanish, and even the TempoStorm miracle list has them (although I think their Hearthstone page has been terrible lately).

TL;DR – Make sure you’re running the right list.

http://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/decks/savjzs-vanishing-giant-miracle-rogue-september-2017-season-42/

http://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/decks/mryaguts-frozen-throne-vanish-valeera-miracle-rogue-top-30-legend-august-2017/

https://tempostorm.com/hearthstone/decks/miracle-rogue-standard-meta-snapshot-sep-3-2017

Mr. Yagut reached top Legend recently with a Deathknight version of Miracle. It is literally 1 card off of what I've reached legend with this season. Like I am saying, Vanish is utterly insane with the DK.

http://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/decks/mryaguts-frozen-throne-vanish-valeera-miracle-rogue-top-30-legend-august-2017/

The DK is essential to Miracle imo. Keep in mind though, right now I am grinding at Rank 2 where 90% of the meta is Druid, Big Priest and Paladin. Against that gauntlet, I’m running 2x Vanish, and I would definitely not run both copies without the DK. The DK into Vanish is probably the most insane tempo swing in the game right now, which is what you need against decks that will out-value you. And even if the meta changes up, I see Vanish being used alongside the DK for a long time to come regardless.

But, if you want to make some other version of the deck, maybe DK is not for you. I will say though that Sherazin is not playable in any version of Rogue other than 2x Coin, 2x Prep, 2x Hallucination Mircale Rogue.

I think that Fatespinner is going to help out a lot in both surviving and completing the quest, and that Ultimate Infestation will solve all the problems of having nothing to do after completing. Dropping that as well as a handful of minions you draw is going to be gg about 100% of the time.

If that's what you want, then play a deck with as few bad matchups as possible. Maybe Midrange Paladin.  Between the shuffler and the matchmaker, you can at least minimize the matchmaking ups and downs that way.

It's happening more and more though that Rogue will lead with Fire Fly or something, with plans to Quest through with something else. I have seen it at least a couple of times now. Obviously, you slam Counterspell if that happens and you're playing second.

It has stronger game against Aggro than against Control, so I would expect it to climb fairly easily now that Aggro Paladin and Aggro Druid are flying around. Those are two decks that it preys on because it's easy to outvalue them once they run out of steam. That's sort of the deck's identity, good tempo on board with better sustainability than other aggro decks.

It also has a good game against Quest Rogue if you are seeing that.

The Medivh mage going around is not a "Secret Mage" in the sense of archetype. It only happens to run 2-3 secrets due to Arcanologist being a great card, then Medivh's Valet on top of that because it happens to be good there also.

Now once you start seeing Kirin Tor Mage, Kabal Lackey and Kabal Crystal Runner, that is the Secret Mage archetype. It wins on tempo, not value.

For which one is better, depends on the opponent. Against the sum set of all possible opponents on ladder, depends on what you think that is going to be.

I think Flame Geyser is a better elemental enabler than either Fire Fly or Glacial Shard. The shard, you will want to play it when it’s good to Freeze something, not necessarily when you want to play an elemental next turn. And obviously if it weren’t an elemental, it wouldn’t be worth playing here. Also, Fire Fly just seems like it does nothing for me most of the time. About the only matchup it is remotely good in is Pirate Warrior.

Flame Geyser though is great against Paladin, Aggro Druid, and Hunter. The way I am used to playing Tempo/Midrange Mage against Aggro is just kill everything with cheap cards and eventually outdraw them.

Also, do you really need a Firelands Portal with 2x Blazecaller already? Meteor has been an incredible card for me in this meta. Also, I confirm what others have said that you shouldn’t leave home without 2x Primordial Glyph.

Quote from Ndrud >>

I wonder how you manage to get a 80% winrate, I have been playing at rank 15 for 12 games and didn't manage to level up. Especially aggro decks are a not possible to win from. Facing murloc paladin, pirate warriors, token druids, taunt quest warriors, tempo mage and hunters. 

Favored against: Aggro of all types, Miracle Rogue

Unfavored against: Taunt Warrior (as long as they hold back on Sulfuras and spam armor up), midrange Hunter, Dragon Priest, Control Paladin, Jade Druid, and Control Priest.

So, basically just like last season’s Reno Mage. Favored against aggro, loses to every Midrange and Control deck out there except Warlock. The only reason that we see it so much this season is because now it’s actually fun to play, and for some reason people started playing Aggro Druid. Also, Arcanologist is a very strong card, so we will continue to see Ice Block decks.

Curious what all the people who post these “X, Y, Z deck is broken” threads are all playing. To hear it from here, Control Mage, Taunt Warrior, Pirate Warrior, Quest Rogue, Murloc Paladin, Hunter, and Jade Druid are all broken.

All salty Priest, Shaman and Warlock players?

Quote from finniggann >>

I have when I played tier one or two decks ranked up insanely quickly, but I generally play bad-mediocre decks that are really hard to play correctly, that means I stick between rank 15 and 10 and max out at nine most seasons. I could reach legend with a tier 3 deck that I found fun, but the slog is not my passion. I think a number of people do things like this but are not good enough or play even worse decks such that they are inbetween 20 and 15.  Not something I can say is absolutely true but it seems to be the case when I am between rank 20 and fifteen late in the season after playing a really bad deck and falling down, I can't do this anymore now that rank floors are a thing but I used to commonly hit rock bottom 20 when playing excessively weird mill decks, other than my c'thun mill decks which have on occasion gotten me past rank 10 from rank 19 or so. but when in20-15 I see all the craziest stuff, and it is fifty-fifty meta and weird homebrew. if that is the case more like 20% of people can't go past rank 19 or so which is actually reasonably believable considering how hard it is to play f2p. I mean I have reached rank fifteen with homebrew poorman decks that were really bad when all I had was 1 wing of naxx and a few bad basic cards but most people don't have that kind of skill or dedication at that rank.