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Update 11:57PM EDT: Added blue tweets.
Leeroy Jenkins & Starving Buzzard Changes Confirmed
Earlier this morning, some people noticed changes to Leeroy Jenkins and Starving Buzzard. These changes were quickly reverted on the server side but it seems that they were intended changes and will be going live on or around September 22nd.
Quote from ZeriyahBoth before and after the release of Curse of Naxxramas: A Hearthstone Adventure, we have been monitoring card balance as more Hearthstone games are played along with the new cards that have been added. After careful consideration we have decided to make balance changes to Leeroy Jenkins (Neutral) and Starving Buzzard(Hunter).
The following balance changes will be made in an upcoming patch:
- Leeroy Jenkins now costs 5 (up from 4)
- Starving Buzzard now costs 5 (up from 2) and now has 3 Attack and 2 Health (up from 2 Attack and 1 Health)
Leeroy Jenkins created a strategy that revolved around trying to defeat your opponent in one turn without requiring any cards on the board. Fighting for board control and battles between minions make an overall game of Hearthstone more fun and compelling, but taking 20+ damage in one turn is not particularly fun or interactive. This was occurring when Leeroy was used in combination with other cards like Power Overwhelming, Faceless Manipulator, Cold Blood, Shadowstep, and Unleash the Hounds, among others.
The amount of cards Starving Buzzard allowed Hunter players to draw ultimately ended up being too excessive for its low cost. This change will allow the Hunter’s opponent more time to react to both the Starving Buzzard and the cards drawn by its power.
Expert cards that are being changed can be disenchanted for their full cost for a limited time once this balance change goes live. The currently targeted date of this balance change is September 22nd.
After these balance changes go live on September 22nd, we will not be making additional card changes between September 22nd and the Hearthstone World Championship at BlizzCon.
We will continue to make balance changes to Hearthstone only when we feel they are completely necessary in order to increase the variety of cards seen at all levels of play and make Hearthstone a more fun and interactive game for everyone.
Blue Tweets
Twitter, and the rest of the Hearthstone community outlets have been on fire this evening with questions and various emotions. Below are some important tweets from the Hearthstone team on the nerfs.
Quote from Blizzard on TwitterI cant stop thinking how Buzzard nerf is just too much, I believe in your balance team but this seems like a overnerf.
It's possible. But if I had to choose a card to over-nerf, it'd be buzzard! :) (But we'll see, time will tell!)
Coupled with maybe Hunter's Mark from 0 to 1 mana cost.
Didn't want to change too much right now. It's important that game feels stable. - Ben Brode (Source)You say it's possible that the Buzzard nerf is overkill. Does that mean you'd be open to a buff later if the change kills hunters?
I don't think this will kill hunters :) - Ben Brode (Source)My thoughts on Buzzard nerf: Gadegetzan Auctioneer is a 4/4 for 5. Buzzard is 3/2 for 5. Similar abilities. Can't buzzard be 3 health @ 5mana?
We tested lots of numbers and this felt best :) - Ben Brode (Source)Buzzard, 2 or 3 mana, 2-1 "Whenever a beast dies, draw a card." - what's wrong with going this route?
Our balance team tried a lot of options - we feel pretty good about the one we settled on. Give it a try! - Ben Brode (Source)Can Leeroy be a 7/2 for 5 please I'm kinda gonna miss him
He's still around! - Ben Brode (Source)
You're right still good at 5 manaWhy no Flare nerf? i wanna play my secrets pally already.
Buzzard nerf is indirect flare nerf. You might see less Hunter, which means you run into flare less.
Also, less Hunters might mean less reason to run flare for remaining hunters, since less secrets to run into.
That said, we are still looking at Flare. It's possible we could see a change to it in the future, if it's still frustrating. - Ben Brode (Source)Buzzard should be 2/1 for 3 battlecry draw a card. Draw 2 if you have a beast in play
That's a pretty different card. We could make that card, too! It's very different, emotionally, though. - Ben Brode (Source)Just to clarify, we will get to disenchant these for full value after the changes, right?
Buzzard is basic and cannot be disenchanted. Leeroy can be disenchanted for full cost once the change goes live. - Zeriyah (Source)
While Avenge is a very good card, it hasn't really changed the meta, let alone completely changed it.
Finally !!! There will be less Hunters on Ranked games. Because 7 in a row it's terrible :)
It's rly overnerf. Cult Master is 4 4/2, and new buzzard 5 3/2.
Not to mention that if you are using the cult master over the buzzard you will have to run your doggies into the giant taunt first to try and draw your hunter's mark. Although neither is strictly better. The cult master is good because you can have the minions on the board before playing the cult master. The buzzard is good because you get to draw cards before killing off your minion or after trading with a highmane, and it also is a beast.
So... is it going to be a zoo or handlock whines now?
I play Hunter but stopped, when it became too popular. I'm pretty curious how Starving Buzzard will feel after the changes go live. I think most decks will play 2x Unleash the Hounds and only 1x Starving Buzzard for late game. It really seems like overkill but I start to feel how Hunter is going to evolve. Hunter has still great early game cards (Webspinner, Haunted Creeper). With games lasting longer, unused cards like Explosive Shot and even King Krush (!) might become viable! Unleash the Hounds will be more used stand-alone probably.
Leeroy Jenkins nerf is probably great for the game. As also beeing a Miracle player I think MalyRogue will be strong (as it's tremednously strong against Control heavy meta, epsecially Taunt Druids). And maybe Shaman will become the new Miracle class (Reincarnate is better than Shadowstep now on Leeroy Jenkins)...
I think the gist of the comments perfectly points out the cancer that is killing Hearthstone.
People (the 99%) have no interest in theory crafting, or building new decks, they just want to copy whatever deck is dominating right, and mindlessly churn ladder games.
Obvious Troll is Troll, but let me get this straight for you.
Hunter nerf was needed, but NOT on the Buzzard. The Buzzard was fine as it was, the main problem with Hunter is its freezing trap, huge tempo loss for a control deck, and the hunters mark which is basically a free removal spell.
Then again, people whine and moan on pointless threads, like the one who wants a Flare nerf. Really? I mean i don't even play Hunter anymore, and climbed the ladder with a freakin ramp druid back in the days, because i simply enjoy control over aggro, but those changes are simply overkill. Let alone the Leeroy change, simply not needed. If you want to adjust the meta in some way, interfere with it, you simply add new cards. It's a simple as that. And you can bet, its also more constructive theorycraft-wise than mauling some random cards into the ground.
Those are not some op cards like the original Imp, Sylvanas, or Dark Iron Dwarf were.
Personally I think it's Scientist and Flare that are strong for Hunter... eitherway, Unleash is a fundamental core of any hunter, whether Face or Midrange and taking it out is just bad news.
Honestly, if they really did want to nerf Buzzard, one simple change such as draw card on beast death or draw at end of turn would have sufficed.
Also agree that Leeroy change was not needed... Miracle Is barely hovering around the 50% win rate against meta decks atm-Loatheb and Sludge has made sure of that. Tempo Rogue has never been good long enough in Meta to really do squat, and Leeroy nerf kills Backspace AND Miracle.
As for your comments Drenmi... keep in mind the size of the Hearthstone cardpool vs other TCGs.... theory crafting only goes SO far when the full amount of cards equals one one or two MTG blocks, changing 2 cards literally changes an entire deck and it's win ratios. Also with the low amount of cards, it's not that hard to "copy" any posted deck online. For example when I went to make an anti Hunter deck yesterday, I was surprised when my list was 3 cards off from the Dog Taunt Druid.... hell even in MTG with a shitload of cards, you usually see no more than 15-20 meta decks at any given time with half those in prime at any given time.
While leeroy is overused, with this nerf you are practicly saving 1 mana by giving your opponent 2 1/1 whelps. Maybe it should be 1 whelp aswell, paired with the increased mana cost.
As for starving buz, this will be quite a tactic chance for hunters. Giving it 3 more cost and giving it only 3/2 makes this card very hard to use. I think a 4 cost 2/2 would be better, it's just less over the top!
Allow me to reiterate the entirety of the comments section in one word:
Fuck.
Way to go Blizzard, way to go.
Now what about the Ragnaros nerf that Average Joe is whining about since closed beta? Let's make him a 1/1 9 mana creature.
My god those changes are so stupid. How a 5 mana 3/2 is "balance", its beyond me.
I don't get the point about Leeroy nerf. Miracle too strong after Nax? With all that Bellchers and Loathebs everywere I don't think so
That's the fun part: they are nerfing a card and a deck that has already been stopped by the meta and the new cards.
That's how you balance a tcg, by making new cards. That's how you add depth to the gameplay.
It's not just Miracle. You may wanna go back and read that section where they talk about Leeroy's insane damage potential again, and realize that five different classes all have ways to use Leeroy for the same (or more) damage of a Pyroblast at the same (or less) mana cost. They didn't even cover the entire spectrum of combinations.
Leeroy + Might + Blessed Champion (18 damage, 10 mana)
Leeroy + Rockbiter x 2 + Spirit + Reincarnate (that kills you in one turn from full with 10 mana)
Also notice that Leeroy, while being an aggressive card, goes in decks that have a control playstyle. Because the deck centers entirely around just one card to actually kill you. Everything else is just there to whittle you down low enough slowly. Essentially, the Leeroy nerf is for the same reasons they nerfed Pyroblast. One card shouldn't be the reason you won a game. One card should just be able to assist you.
As far as Buzzard goes, it's actually less about UTH and more about the nearly limitless other mass draw possibilities that it has for it's mana cost. How many times do you just see a hunter go Buzzard, Webspinner, wolf or what have you on a midgame turn when you're effectively playing around UTH and keeping your board to a minimum? UTH only works versus decks that need a high board pressence, but that's not every deck. Buzzard works versus every deck because it doesn't need UTH. That's why it's the problem, and that's why it's the nerf target.
My conclusion is that the Starving Buzzard has now died.
... because of starvation
Yea... I think rouges will just run arcane golem instead. Yea, it is 33% less damage, but it is also less mana, allowing you to play it earlier, combo into it better, and no pesky whelps to worry about.
There is also always mana addict.
1.) The Leeroy nerf seems thoroughly unnecessary - although I don't play Handlock or Miracle myself, I've always found them to be interesting matchups. The huge burst potential creates tension that's fun to play around and I don't think every single deck in the game necessarily needs to feature heavy minion trading (this homogenizing design focus seems a bit overzealous). It makes for healthy variety if a couple of decks play differently, and frankly, I've never once felt that a Leeroy was played against me was unfair. This one surprised me.
2.) So, is Buzzard the new Kidnapper? This poor guy is gonna go right on the scrap heap while hunters make the shift to Hyena, Cult Master, and Knife Thrower for their UTH value. I think the decks will still be viable, but it's the fact a card is going from amazing to utterly unplayable that gives me pause. Brode has said they're reluctant to do actual nerfs and instead prefer to balance by introducing new cards (case in point, Belcher reigning in Miracle and Zoo) so it's doubly surprising to witness such a heavy-handed nerf. I can't see the card being remotely playable - it's either going to sit in your hand as long as Ysera, or you gamble early and hope your 5 mana 3/2 survives long enough to be worth the investment (it won't). They said the numbers felt right, though, so who knows.
3. Finally, none of the decks affected by these changes are really that problematic, at least on the ladder. Miracle and Handlock definitely aren't, and I feel like the Hunter craze has largely subsided from the early days of Mad Scientist. Zoo, at least, was way more frustrating to play against during its heyday. In other words, both of these nerfs seem disproportionate to the perceived imbalance of the decks.
I agree with all your points, however, I'll be a bit more hard on the Buzzard. I don't think it will be played Turn 5 because of it's frailty, I think you'll have to wait until turn 8 or 9 and play it with two 2 mana beasts or some combination of the remaining 3 or 4 mana. Also, another play is a turn 6 Savannah Highmane and turn 7 Buzzard before you run the Highmane into something big. If you can't draw two cards off of it, how much better is it than Loot Hoarder? A 3/2 Loot Hoarder would probably be 3 mana.