Hearthpwn

What you needed to do was play the shark for 4 mana to combo Evis face for 4 damage using 2 mana, Trade off a minion into Lich King to make space on the board, Then play Zephyrs for 0 with 4 mana remaining and hope it gives you Mass Dispell, There is still a chance it doesnt since it might not interact that way with Caverns but you would increase your odds atleast if you limited your mana to 4 rather than 10.

Why would anyone want to play a card that draws cards for hunters rogues paladins and other demon hunters who are all very aggro decks that generally dont have 4 cards in hand that often to begin with, The card simply does'nt suit the meta if the meta was more control it would be a lot stronger, If the meta was warriors and priests sitting on 8-9 cards constantly mostly consisting of removal then it would be alot more useful than a meta which is largely aggro based when its 4 mana help your opponent.

If the meta was largely control with people sitting on 7-9 cards alot of the time you could make the arguement that Voracious Reader is a bad card because its extremely rare you're on less than 3 cards and in a control game alot of the time you dont want to draw cards......That does'nt mean the card is bad as we have seen in a aggro meta it is insane but in a different meta just like Glide is now Voracious Reader would be rendered largely useless.

Quote from PainkillerJM >>

Quote from Artimex723 >>

Priest is a difficult class to judge. It has always been a control class, and it's hated, becuase the majority of people prefer fast games with Aggro decks. However, there are many players who enjoy long control matchups (including me), so that's why it's a difficult matter. I think, every class has it's own advantages and disadvantages, while we can say that Priests biggest advantage is that it counters Aggro. Obviously deleteing the class is not an option, just like you wrote, but it would also be fun to see other archetypes than control for Priest. I still don't understand why they HoFd Northshire Cleric and literally destroyed the only other possible playstyle - Inner Fire combo.

 I think that advantage you mention is what it SHOULD be, right now slower decks are loosing to priest thanks to galakrond and other cards. I know it sounds super salty but what I feel when I match against priest is f**k this class. So going by the heart #ReworkPriest

 You'll find alot of priest players including myself completely agree priest is in a bad place right now it has one style of play and that is pure survival, Its not aggro, Its not midrange, Its not even control it is purely survival, You win the game by surviving, Did you survive against a aggro player then you won, Did you survive against a midrange deck then you won, Did you survive against a control player then you won, Priest is a class with no win condition, Its only win condition is to literally survive against the win condition of every other deck type and then they finally win, You're not salty at all because alot of priest players feel the same way, We're not happy being the class with no direction at all but its what we have so we make the most of it.

I would love to beable to play a early game priest deck but does the class have the cards to support that, Hell no. I would love to play a midrange deck with priest but again it does'nt have the cards to support that neither, All it has is control and its not even regular control because it has no win condition other than just surviving everything your opponent does and beat them with stolen cards and RNG from Galakrond.

Look at the dual class cards and you will see 8 cards and 7 of them are 100% designed for the other class and not priest and the one that is actually better in priest is only better because once again it allows you to steal your opponents stuff, Warlock/Priest you have Raise Dead, Flesh Giant, Disciplinarian Gandling and Brittlebone Destroyer all of which are better in warlock than priest so much so only one is used in priest at all and lets be honest priest does'nt exactly need Brittlebone Destroyer removal is'nt something priest lacks. Then in Paladin/Priest you have Gift of Luminance, Devout Pupil and High Abbess Alura all better in paladin than priest and then you have Wave of Apathy which is the only card that fits into the current style of priest and that is because it allows you to steal from your opponent.

Priest is in a place right now where it does'nt fit in any of the normal styles of play, It cannot do aggro, It cannot do midrange, It cannot do combo anymore and it cannot do control, Priest is in place all on its own called survival mode and it is extremely frustrating to play against but its also not exactly fun to play neither, I would like to say Blizzard will give priest a direction but after seeing those dual class cards i honestly dont see it happening anytime soon they printed 4 warlock cards 3 paladin cards and 1 priest card and called them dual class cards but hey priests are used to relying on other classes cards to actually be playable so i guess in that sense it fits the style of priest to just say "Hey heres 4 warlock cards and 3 paladin cards you dont have to steal you can just put in your deck........Only they will completely suck for class so you might aswell not bother".

I mean it depends on how you look at it, You had him at 1 HP on turn 6 and then he hit the mega combo and came back to win, Is that balanced probably not, On the other hand you put him to 1 HP by on turn 6 and if he had'nt played overgrowth you would have literally killed your opponent without him playing a single card from his deck and not a AFK player or someone who disconnected but someone playing one of the best decks in the meta right now, Is it balanced that decks can kill you before you play a single card from your deck, Again probably not.

Swings and roundabouts, You can kill a player before they are able to play a single card from their deck or they can combo you, Neither are fun to play against, Neither are enjoyable for the opponent who loses to either outcome, You draw the nuts and kill someone by turn 6 not fun for that player and some players would say not balanced, They hit a combo like that and its not fun for the other player and again some would say not balanced.

Quote from Likafoss >>

A win condition against priest should be run them out of 'stuff' but right now with Galakrond and other steal/Mind Control effects it becomes a game of you vs. yourself with some of the best control cards sprinkled in to take any advantage away you may have had. Even if you play Archivist Elysiana there's a chance they can steal it with Thoughtsteal or something and ruin a large portion of your win condition.

Additionally, they have extreme importance in killing their minions due to the amount of buffs and win-more cards they have when ahead at all, just like Divine Spirit Inner Fire days, but less power spiky. Either give other classes more tools on the same power level or tone Priest down a little bit.

 You want to give other classes the tools to go late game with a priest when that is literally all that priest has, The worst class if you want to play the aggro game, A subpar paladin if you want to play the buff midrange game, As a priest main i actually hate the way priest is right now where your win condition is to literally steal your opponents cards or out value them purely with Galakrond, The class seems to have one indetity right now and that is to just frustrate every opponent and nothing else, It is'nt a aggro class, It is'nt a midrange class, Hell its not even a late game class it is literally a steal class with a RNG Galakrond thrown in to make sure you win the value game.

Even the dual class cards printed show that perfectly, Warlock/Priest......No its Warlock cards that priests can play it just feels like cards stolen from a warlock they were not designed for both classes they were designed for Warlocks, Paladin/Priest again no not at all they are Paladin cards that priest just happens to have access to but cards that are clearly designed to fit into paladin decks and not priests, Even when not stealing cards it feels like just using cards stolen from warlocks and paladins.

As a priest player when i'm making a deck i always find myself wondering "What is my win condition" its a easy question for all other classes/decks but when it comes to priest each and every time the answer remains the same........Survive, That is all priest can do is survive to win its not fun to play and its not fun to play against but that is where priest is right now but as a priest main i still play it because thats my class.

That being said priest Galakronds infinite value game is a mistake you would have thought Blizzard would have learned their lesson from Rexxar and Dr Boom but they went and did the exact same thing again, Hopefully its the last time we Blizzard make that same stupid mistake but i would'nt bet on it.

Hard to say if its skillful or not i've played alot of aggro rogues and literally there is zero skill involved in it since their hand is generally running dry on a regular basis they will throw it out whenever they just need stuff to play, Not seen enough of other rogues decks to say if it can be used more skillfully i would have to face rogues other than aggro rogues and i dont see that happening anytime soon.

I would say Mindrender Illucia is the best designed card and when given the chance can be a very skillful card, I would say a card that requires you to be willing to give up X ammount of your own cards, Knowing if you can afford to lose those cards for the possible benefit of discarding X of your opponents cards requires alot more skill than "When would i like to draw 5 cards". Illucia requires you to have a idea of what your opponent is playing, When it hits its power level and be willing to sacrifice your own hand and your next top deck to use it, Play it too early and the impact it has on your opponent might not weaken them as much as they weaken you by playing your cards, Play it too late and its likely going to be a upside for your opponent and not you and even if you play it at the right time but have'nt drawn your Galakrond even if you discard your opponents best cards they could still topdeck your Galakrond on their turn and you've just given them the value game which is pretty much all priest has.

Secret passage requires you to know your own deck, Illucia requires you to know your own deck and your opponents and comes with a risk vs reward whenever you play it, Unless your hand is empty then its only rewards but thats exactly the same with secret passage, Also the mana cost of secret passage alone is just stupid there is literally no downside to a 1 mana draw 5 at no point are you ever going to be in a worse position on your following turn when you play it at worse you're going to be in the exact same position you would be if you did'nt play it, Now if it had a downside it would be a much more skillful card........For example if you discarded any cards you generated if you did'nt play them that turn then it would be more skillful and have a risk vs reward aspect but as it is now secret passage is just play the card and either you're in the exact same position the following turn or you're in a better position there is no worse position.

But thats just my opinion and maybe how the card is used in aggro decks makes it seem alot more brainless than it actually is but thats just the nature of aggro decks,  I would love to see how its used in other rogue decks but alas i've yet to face a single rogue that was'nt a full on aggro deck and when that is all you see i fail to see how anyone who sees this card played by a aggro rogue thinks "Damn thats a skillful card right there".

Quote from Shadowrisen >>

Quote from Fyrfytr998 >>

Quote from TouchedSage >>

As somone who has played almost exclusively Priest for the last year I can tell you it has nothing to do with ‘screwing other players’. It is that as Hearthstone has morphed into Swingstone with tons of swingy OP cards, Priest is the only class that has a chance against a wide variety of decks. The win rate is not so great but at least there is a chance of pulling out a victory instead of auto conceding against 50% of classes. It is clear that Scholomance is going to turn the swingy up to 11 which some people are going to love but I think it is going to be a total s*itshow.

 As a player who loves farming the large number of Priest players in Wild casual with OTK combo.....Mindrender Illucia was very much a screw you. I guess it’s back to Standard as Wild casual will be a Priest stomping ground now.

I’m not saying Priest isn’t good enough to beat OTK combo, it’s just most players don’t focus or tech their decks against it. Now all they need is a single card to obliterate it.

 I have to agree; people tend to forget the function that combo decks perform in a healthy meta.  I remember a brief period where Shudderwock was the ONLY reason that Odd Warrior and its empowered hero power wasn't the only viable deck out there.  Frequently, you'll see one combo or another arise to beat back those decks that suck the life out of gameplay by just assembling 29 answers and one win condition in a deck and winning 5 - 8 draws into fatigue every game.  In the case of Shudderwock, we had pre-nerf Archivist Elysiana getting brewmaster'ed back into hand to extend a deck to 50 or 60 cards in the most boring of mirror matchups possible.

Mindrender Illucia is 100% effective at shutting down combos.  In the case of any sort of mecha'thun deck, you will always have a turn where the opponent is approaching the final draw of his deck, and if you know the opponent's win condition, you can wait to play Mindrender until it is an absolute guarantee that at least one of the single-copy, necessary tools of the combo is in the opponent's hand.  Just hard cast cataclysm or Kael'thas or whatever the case may be, and the opponent cannot win.

There is absolutely no chance that this card doesn't get massively abused in wild.  In addition, it is unfortunate to know that none of the traditional OTK setups will be available in standard for some time as well.  This saddens me greatly,.  A meta without combo is begging for the slowest of slow control metas to emerge.

 Mindrender Illucia is going to counter combo decks for sure but its more than just that its the pure disruption it can cause for anyone playing against it, Yes they also get to mess with the priests hand too but priest is one of those classes that does'nt really run a win condition it the deck they are just a grindy class that will eventually wear you down and exhaust your cards until you lose, Being able to dump win conditions from any deck is huge and theres very few cards in priest that the opponent can dump that you would consider a win condition, Unless they draw the priests Galakrond ofcourse but if they dont the Galakrond alone means you will struggle to out value the priest.

And then there Galakrond himself, Whats worse than one Mindrender Illucia.......Multiple Mindrender Illucias, Everyone can see its potential to be a combo breaking card it will be interesting to see how disruptive it can be against the other types of decks, It has the potential to disrupt them all if used at the right time but when it is played is going to be much tougher to judge against other decks, Personally i would rather see more cards like that where there is a optimal time to play it rather than what we see generally and that is cards you just slam down whenever you want without care, Cards that make the player and the opponent think about their next turns are a rarity sadly and Mindrender Illucia has that potential.

I would much rather lose to someone playing a card like Mindrender Illucia who kept the card in hand and waited for the optimal turn to play it either knowing it was when my deck was at its strongest or knowing their own hand would limit the opponent regardless next turn than lose to someone who just spews out cards onto the board and goes face.

Quote from eLsir >>

Yeah. There are different ways you can enjoy it, but the most obvious one is winning. You can’t really have fun loosing. So why not build some metabreaker decks and win a bunch with them? I got to rank 1/legend for two seasons in a row so far and I really recommend doing the same thing if you get bored of just copying other people’s decks!

 I would'nt say you cant have fun losing its more a case of you cant have fun losing to aggro decks since the game is over by turn 8 or something if it even lasts that long. I have fun losing aslong as i get to play my deck and most of the decks i play are probably under 30% win rate but i still have a ton of fun with them when i play against none aggro decks, Against aggro decks sure it is'nt as much fun but thats just Hearthstone you're always going to have aggro decks and if you're playing for fun they are generally going to be the least fun matches for you.

Dont get me wrong i have more fun when i play someone else who isnt playing a netdecked deck, Playing against the same decks over and over again is just as boring as playing the same decks over and over again for me which is why i only play a few games a day. It is harder to have fun though in the game with so many tools out there that are so anti fun, Meta guides, Mulligan guides, Drafting addons for arena, Everything has a tier list, Everything has a win rate and the past few expansions the meta has been decided before the expansion even hits, You used to get a couple of week atleast of people experimenting with decks and just having fun, This expansion that was done after the first day.

The game is what you make of it, I dont play a single meta deck and i probably never will, I dont care about rank in the slightest and failing that i can fall back on arena or battlegrounds, I would be bored out of my mind if i had to play netdecks or the same deck day in day out and i only play a few games a day, God knows how people manage to do a single deck for hours on end i guess people find fun in different aspects of the game, Some like winning and climbing ranks, Some like myself would rather play decks they enjoy that decks that are just good.

Personally i'm a highlander addict, Not the usual highlander rogue, Mage and hunters although i do really like the rogue deck, My current favorite is a highlander beast druid.......Its complete trash and has a win rate probably under 30% at this point but i enjoy playing it, Highlander dragon decks and highlander mech decks are also favorites but they are complete trash, Why play highlander dragon mage and have a decent win rate when you can play highlander mech mage and lose.......But when you do win and you manage to win against meta decks with just meme decks its alot of fun, Oddly enough though i get more salty friend requests when i win with a meme deck than i ever did playing regular decks, You would think losing to the same decks over and over would annoy people more than losing to someone just playing for fun but it seems that is not the case, Its more a case of "My broken netdeck lost to a meme deck, Must add this person and insult them for not taking a game serious!".

Quote from Artimex723 >>

I was playing a lot of Galakrong Shaman and I have the same feeling as you. It was a powerful deck in the beggining of DoD and it still is, but there are also many decks that counter it heavily. I also see that Galakrond Shaman has a very significant disadvantage. It's very depending on what cards you draw, since farsight is the only card draw in your whole deck. Sometimes I just get a starting hand consisting of cards like Kronx, Galakrond, Dragon Pack etc. In a situation like this I always get smashed by people playing Face Hunter, Zoolock, Treant Druid, as I do not hava a response to their fast plays.

 While you may indeed get smashed by aggro decks if your starting hand is 5/6/7 mana cards, The same can be said of pretty much any other deck, Not just any midrange or control deck, Literally any deck at all going against a pure aggro deck if they draw well ofcourse is going to be completely smashed if they have 5/6/7 in hand and draw terrible, That is'nt a shaman issue that is just how this game works, A aggro deck given 3-5 turns where the other player does nothing.......Shocker it smashes that player.

Alot of decks run limited card draw, Alot of decks with a terrible opening hand and draw get rolled over by aggro decks because thats just what aggro decks are designed to do, When the only argument you make is one that affects multiple other classes/decks its not a good argument really, Shamans only run far sight for card draw is'nt exactly true though, You might but in general that really is'nt the case.Alot of shaman decks also run Mana Tide Totem, Questing Explorer if they run the quest or Novice Engineer so there is more than just Far Sight for draw in most shaman decks.

When the only disadvantage of the deck you can list is that it dies to aggro decks if you have a poor opening hand and draw a issue that every single deck in the game would face, Very questionable reasoning for it not being slightly in need of nerfs.

New hero.

New stupidly broken hero power.

30 minute plus matches.

Games largely decided by the RNG of said new hero power.

This is not a custom game mode you've literally just described control warrior vs control warrior.

IQuote from parishbishop >>

Quote from noobito123 >>

You played against a priest whos only source of healing his minions is his HP and Holy Nova and two Waterbearers who did nothing until turn 6 when he coined out a random Velen, You had Dr Boom on curve and since he had no healing from Circle or Hymn even when he had a board and optimal trading which he had a few times he could'nt even trade and then heal his board to complete his quest because he did'nt run any group healing apart from Nova........And yes you're going to have board control against a wall priest who is running zero copies off plague of death, You managed to beat a budget wall priest that ran zero plagues of death, Zero Hymns and zero Psychopomps, Control warrior is unfavored against that type of priest but then that type of priest cuts the cards that priest cut its hard to say that is a real wall priest.

 LOL  wow your sure determined to disagree with me. LOL  anyways, the point is, the stratedgy is legit. It works. Ive done it more thatn once,against both Wall Priest, Wall quest Priest, and Quest Priest. 

YOur just incorrect about his healing, he had ZilliaxKhartut DefenderRadianceHoly NovaSandhoof Waterbearer!!!!! 

I though I would share with you all, cuz I figured it out on the fly based on theorizing I do. 

Try it out , it works!  

oh, by the way, I also had dead cards in my deck and still won handily,  Hungry CrabThe Black KnightChief InspectorMossy Horror

so take that and smoke it!! LOL 

thx for your thoughts dude. 

p.s.  Anytime you want a game, as Quest Priest vs my Warrior, let me know, and I will show you just how NOOB you really are!!!!  lol

Explain where i was incorrect about his healing, I said his only source of healing his minions are his hero power, Nova and Waterbearer.........You named Zilliax, Radiance and Khartut Defender, You do realise they only heal his hero right?, So i named the only ways of healing his minions and you say i'm incorrect on that and go on to name 3 cards that........Only heal his hero as your argument on that?......Yeah not sure i would be calling someone else a noob when you dont seem to know the difference between cards that heal your hero and cards that heal your minions.

You played against a priest whos only source of healing his minions is his HP and Holy Nova and two Waterbearers who did nothing until turn 6 when he coined out a random Velen, You had Dr Boom on curve and since he had no healing from Circle or Hymn even when he had a board and optimal trading which he had a few times he could'nt even trade and then heal his board to complete his quest because he did'nt run any group healing apart from Nova........And yes you're going to have board control against a wall priest who is running zero copies off plague of death, You managed to beat a budget wall priest that ran zero plagues of death, Zero Hymns and zero Psychopomps, Control warrior is unfavored against that type of priest but then that type of priest cuts the cards that priest cut its hard to say that is a real wall priest.

Never come up against the warrior or warlock quest probably a reason for that, Only seen the mage quest one and playing rogue quest it never even got completed, Hunter quest i've seen once and again it never got completed, Priest quest i've seen 4 times and never seen in completed once infact every time i've played against it the priest has conceded by turn 7 because they played a buff version it seems and wasted most their buffs early, Those so far atleast would be my bottom 5, Cant say i've played any of them as i'm in no hurry to craft cards until things are settled.

Played a fair few times against paladin and its been very hit and miss but theres potential there and it can snowball very hard, Played less against the druid quest but everytime i've come up against it its been a very tough game probably the next quest i craft if any, Shaman seems very strong but not unbeatable by any stretch not a quest i personally fancy playing but its the one that i've struggled against the most, Rogue is the only one i've played personally and currently 27-8 which is decent but it depends how quick i get the quest done every time i've lost i've just not got online until turn 8+ or its been against another quest rogue who got online a few turns earlier.

Overall i would say the OP got the list pretty spot on, Might swap the rogue and shaman quest around and drop the warrior one down with warlock but thats because i've just not played against them, In terms of ones i've actually played against i would say priest is the worst at the moment it just seems so slow.

Priest generally starts off a new rotation in poor or just straight up bad position then they will get some stupidly powerful AoE or something that pushes res priest or something to top tier and everyone and their mother will complain about them thats just how priest tends to go, It is very rarely a good class its either very bad or very strong and when priest is wrong its probably the most complained about class, Same thing is likely to happen this year too its just when Blizzard decide to give priest that card or cards that put it back on that level.