Hearthpwn

Quote from dzquetzal >>

Quote from Breakfast1 >>

Quote from YellowDisease >>

Quote from GentilleMouche >>

Whirlwind that hits face and has synergy will all the self damage cards in warlock?

Poeple will sleep in this card. 

 I have studied the English language for many years. Yet, even after reading your post multiple times over, I still am unable to decipher what you were trying to say.

Don't be so melodramatic there's only two typos. Will = with, poeple = people.

 And "sleeping in this card" means what exactly? :)

There's the phrase "sleep on x", but even that wouldn't apply here.

Sleep on. It's a piece of vernacular that means to underrate or ignore, which is primarily used for things like T/CCGs. Presumably derived from describing a card as a sleeper.

Quote from B0n3d4ddy >>

Can we please get rid of Murlocs or revert the buff? Everyone and their mom is trying to get the same stuff and if you went for another route you might as well concede just because of how easy it is to stack them with loads of stats, poisonous etc.

Okay, it might be because of how little diversity this game mode offers. But it's very annoying that you're basically forced to buy specific minions to keep up with your opponents or kiss your ass goodbye. I stopped counting the number of games where I've been offered few to zero Murlocs early on only to get annihilated by everyone else who went for them.

 At 5500-5600ish (I seem to have capped out, hopefully temporarily, though a lot of the losses are just being offered two bad heroes so hopefully better when I get some packs), I see little murlocs, and they're not too strong. They die very easily in the mid-early lategame, before they can get multiple adapts, and are deathly weak to kaboom bots and other mech strategies (cobalt's DS, for example, usually kills multiple), as well as cleave, until ultra lategame. Also, the buffs are generally sold and rotated back into the pool, so others can and will hit them. Menagerie strats are just OP if you can get a lightfang, and even without it, crowd favourite and cycling buffs works best in a menagerie, too.

Should be doable with hatedrafting the adapters, had that happen to me before. Primary way to handle it is to knock them out before they hit the many adapts, I find (at ~5500) - T4/5 is a bit weak for murlocs, particularly 5, with just Brann (who is popular), whilst 4 mainly has the discover and poison murlocs, both of whom get thrown back into the pool after most pick them. Zap+big cleave and a bunch of divine shields can work, but you're probably struggling regardless. Hopefully you can survive one or two hits, and they're low enough that one good hit kills 'em, then try and get lucky on orders.

A ghoul minion could be interesting, if it, like ghoul, hit your own shields too (that'd differentiate from Nef, and Nef would have the extra space anyway by not running it). Just make sure you can't poisonous it, otherwise it's bonkers :P Also provides interesting early counterplay to tokens.

Quote from Echtvad >>

Im at about 6700 and I see synergy all the time, but Menagerie is just better - Something I have notice is how hard it have gotten to discover Lightfang through a triple - I did it so much in the start, but now I play like 50 games and not a single Lightfang discovered with an average 2 triple at tier 4. 
Tinfoil hat intensifies. 

 Interestingly, at ~5500, I see relatively little synergy until T5ish, by which point changing strategy is risky. Tends to be utter jank into muddling along, then at 4 a rough menagerie strategy with buff cycling unless you start seeing the good stuff (beasts are always too heavily taken, murlocs always die out when people are at T4 [can't seem to survive to get the T6 adapt, and the one time I was George and so managed to, they were hatedrafted], mechs in the midgame needs cobalt and (magnetic deathrattle or rover) to do much beyond just be a bunch of mechs, maybe with a few leapers, and demons... they're weak, and overreliant on T5 for good taunts, Mal'ganis [particularly major with the weaver, else you end up being unable to play anything], and the big backside demon - though the juggler can push them past that point if you're lucky enough to see some), or you're ahead on tiers, in which case push tiers and hope for lightfang. Also seem to see few triples, particularly compared to you - two at T4 seems high to me; I often push to 5 quickly, maybe that's not a great strategy. Probably around 3-4 turns at 4, depending on what's on offer and everyone else's tier. Usually get one or two triples before the lategame when people start dropping out and freeing stuff up (because almost nobody dies until late most games, at most one before most are T5/6). Heavy synergy exchanged for lighter synergy, maybe half in on a couple of different tribes, buffed cleave, tokens, and lots of buff cycling seems to work for me (after the Junkbot to 5, ofc, before which I found beasts open a lot). I do find that I'm light on actual hero damage, and everyone else at my rating tends to be, before lategame 20ish HP hits. Possibly should be focussing more on damage than defence when looking at placement, trying to knock people out and thus get more good stuff freed up?

Quote from -troY- >>

This is gonna be fixed they said. Also you're not supposed to face the same player multiple times a game, which happens currently.

 Any clue when this is planned for? Or sources? Being near the bottom and still getting smacked by double lightfang people at the top is a pain in the backside, and grows old early. Of course my mediocre AFKay list can handle a couple of massive 30/30s from your lightfangs every other match, whilst I avoid other opponents entirely! Also irksome how, by that point, it takes two losses to go from top few to out at 7/8th, but that's how a format with such low health pools, such low damage early, and high damage lategame goes.

Quote from Kwakdizzle >>

After a strong midgame just ignore your hero power and play normally. Think about AFK. Her hero power is just giving her a great midgame. How come she still has a great winrate by beating the late-game even though she has no hero power anymore? She just plays normally. The whole point is capitalizing on an early advantage. Don't jump through hoops to make sure you're using the hero power when really you should just to cycling buffs, looking for Branns/Lightfangs, and reinforcing your synergies.

 Cool, thanks, will go for that next time. 

I'm having some issues with lategame Darryl. Early, I'm fine, Midgame, i'm making 10+/10+ DS/taunt, cleave, or similar value every other turn or so. But I'm then losing to multiple 30/30 poisonous, or similar - you can't get much poison as Darryl, I find, and two or three lategame hits is usually lethal. What should I be doing to maximize Darryl late? Do I just need to see amalgam more than once in a blue moon? Ignoring HP and cycling buffs feels weak. Should I be freezing stuff for multiple turns of dancing, and resigning myself to a few weaker turns? Hitting 5th as Darryl with a strong midgame just feels bad.

Quote from LW187 >>

No idea why Queen fucking wagtoggle is a mid tier here and Infinite Toki(50% of my victories are from her post nerf) is a low tier......Toki all the way. And that Dancing Deryl is probably among the top 3 most powerful heroes is no secret. He is a guaranteed top 4 spot if you just boost the shit out of any taunt+d-shield minion(can even be righteous protector, psycho-tron would be a top target). Playing among 5500 MMR EU btw.

 I wouldn't go that far - he's certainly top three, but just boosting the flip out of a couple of taunt/DS can still get you knocked out early, I find, if people are lucky. Oh, a token and a poison, that's one 11/11 DS gone... he's clearly lower on here due to being a bit more skill intensive, but is very good even in my mediocre hands. Also doesn't help that you do actually run out of time dancing sometimes, even on desktop - though that's usually up at T5+, happens lower sometimes, depending on opp's build - and there's no guarantee people are actually knocked out by then. Had a lot of squeaking into 4th somehow lately (was sure I was 6th last run, but didn't get hit quite as hard as the other 2 getting knocked out), then the odd abysmal run so I'm struggling to maintain 5.4K :) 

Quote from Gameoverman >>

Not immediately. It becomes hard to chase all those branns, yoggs, sindras and rats, who got buffed minions and you got toxifin and zerus from your cards. In most cases its cognitive bias when you face AFK with guardian and rover on turn 3 screaming "damn, she's op af" but when she got crap and starts losestreak - noone notices. So almost everyone thinks that she needs to be nerfed.

 Never had any issues with bad discovers, myself - but if you do, yeah, you're in trouble. In my experience, you can usually pull off a hydra, rover, bolvar, or similar. I'd say, on average, very strong but not OP, and certainly not in need of another nerf - as the nerf to junkbot did weaken her a bit already. Can just imagine that discover pile - toxfin, defender, and lookout would just give no chance. Bleh!

Apologies if I seemed overly harsh in the previous post, I've seen a few people grumbling about being behind on taverns when using her, and... you're not. 

Quote from Gameoverman >>

AFK can give you 2 buffers with her cards and then you are almost dead, so its +- balanced

Your Aka is too complicated (as for me) in mechanic

Patches definitely needs complete rework or even ban in release

Not sure why you say AFK is almost dead immediately. Pretty much everyone upgrades on two, picking tokens on 1 if possible. So, you take 1+2=3 on the first turn, 2+2=4 on the second, for a whopping seven damage, usually 6, as not everyone gets offered tokens. Then you upgrade, get your T3/T4, if there's a token producer grab that before upgrading. Turn four, 6 mana, buy two 2s. Turn five, sell a minion or token presuming you didn't get great picks, upgrade to TT3 at the same time as everyone else, picking up a minion. You're not behind on tiers, unless people are pushing hard and losing a lot of health (mainly just bartender and Patchwerk who can pull this off). Nor are you behind on board, given that Tier 4 gives you a lot of powerful, defining options for your draft direction, and three has some very strong ones, too. If you can't get something together with AFKay, your RNG is bad enough that you probably wouldn't be able to do well regardless of who you picked.

Patches is just bad, but then so are, say, pyramid or wagtoggle, and the numbers seem to support those being half-decent. Maybe they're more picked against weaker players, giving a boost. Really can't compare with the actually very good picks, though, and that's clear even in this rating-less list.

Quote from T0ys0ldier13 >>

As you play the mode more you would be able to make your plays in your head 3 turns in advance, and therefore get faster at using the time allotted to you, and as you said the timer alludes part of the entrigue of the game and skill/apm testing. With that said I do agree some of the animations have to be tweaked especially for the tavern section.

 For a start - the time you have depends on your and your previous opponent's build. People in here literally have their turns skipped, and I've started just before the rope before. If you think you can manage to buy three minions, sell one, play and sell two, buy one, play and sell five, then buy the last huge one for good Darryl in even 45sec, then you should be fine - but you often don't have that. I just ran out of time mid-Darryl, and I'd have won that combat with a successful dance on the previous recruit phase, which would have put me top three at least instead of dead at fourth. just start the timer from the end of the last combat to finish, and even shorten it a bit - and it'd be fine, IMO. The random inequality in time is a pain in the backside.

Even ignoring Darryl - who is a big issue with time - it's still possible to run out of time with multiple goldens after facing a many rover deck. And that sucks.

Quote from bvonderh >>

I'm really curious myself. I've been sitting around 5.7k and I have no clue whether that's reasonable or not, but I think it's decent.

 Nice, better than me! I'm at around 5-5.1k without preorder, though not been there long, and had a steady rise since stabilizing post-change (as the meta suddenly shifted to 'you're unlikely to get synergy, as everyone's fighting over pieces of it. Go menagerie and if you see non-beasts are open, or you can manage murlocs somehow...' [Managed murlocs once with George, got hatedrafted out of the adapters so couldn't break past second - usually I see them far too fragile, as no hyena/junky, and crashing out early lategame (so 6th-8th, turn 10ish) more often than other strats]). Had a few issues the other day after the changes and dropped 400 or so rating, and I know I'm not that great. Like with MTG drafts, I'm weak at reading signals, so will probably never be top-tier! Hard to tell what's open in the smallish window sometimes, and swapping plans more than once is... risky (counting the transition from early jank to synergy as a change). Looks like top 200 EU is 8.5k-6.5k or so? Would love to see a rough ranking, like 'in the top 1000/2000/3000' etc.. Presuming that there's a lot more in 6-6.5k than 6.5k+ :)

Just a question; what kind of rating is viewed as good, mediocre, very good, and the like? I know I'm certainly not the best, but it's good to know rough benchmarks [though I'm still increasing, now I handled yesterday's huge slump] :) One issue with just the MMR visible, not any kind of actual ranking :P

The fact that the timer stars at the start of combat sucks, and makes it unequal. Ran out of time a few times, but not often. 

Quote from Sillyraptor >>

Quote from fusilli >>

Quote from 1xbenx1 >>

Quote from fusilli >>

 Triples give you your tier+1, don't they? So at tavern Tier 3, that gives tavern tier four reward. Not tier six. Just heavily affects her viability if she can get higher tier stuff.

 

As for her being a tempo loss, she isn't directly, though the early pushes can cause a loss of tempo. Particularly with the early maps, no guarantee of anything even vaguely synergistic, though, so 3 mana, get something bad feels.... bad. People seem to do well with her, though, so I'm probably out of the loop :P

 But if you save a, for example, a TT2 map, you can use it later in the game (Like when you are in TT5) to combine with other TT2 on the board or offered in the shop, since the shop offers a variety of tiered minions.

 Yeah, that makes sense for good uses for her; I'll have to try her again at some point. My question about having a T6 minion at tavern tier 3 stands, though, if she can do that with her maps, then she's OP.

 Most likely got it off of Shifter Zerus which is T3. He's a slept on card and can give tier 6 minions early.

 Ooh, thanks. Completely forgot about Zerus!