Hearthpwn

Quote from RealMaddMaxx >>

@Geoff I'm not sure why all the hostility towards your question but the coin is an imperfect answer to try and make up for a fundamental flaw in the way hearthstone is designed. The devs did the best they could and played around with many different versions of how to try to make up for how much worse it was to go second including at one point play testing giving a free 0 Mana 1/1 instead, but the winrate for going first was still way too high. Thus coin and the extra card was the best solution they could come up with that got the closest to 50/50 winrate as they could.

Even in rouge if you really look at and break down win rates, especially at higher ranks, it's still better to go first as a rogue because rogue is a tempo class and the tempo and Mana advantage of going first is still better for rogue than having access to the coin. It simply hurts less to go second as a rogue than it does with the other classes but it is always better in every class to go first. The only exception to this rule (in standard) is perhaps in druid simply because coining out overgrowth a turn earlier can make up for the Mana disadvantage of going second and the coin can be used with kel' but those interactions won't be in standard forever.

Also when to use the coin introduces a lot of skill testing plays that you would miss out on. From Mana cheating in classes that can't usually cant do that such as saving a coin the entire game for a double battle cry shutter (usually a mistake), to the simple interactions it has with triggering secrets, and everything in between are reasons I wouldn't want to lose it.

 Geoff, you can't just make a new account, agree with yourself, and suddenly not seem ridiculous... It's quite easy to check when an account was made, and how many posts they have... I sincerely doubt someone was so moved by your insight on The Coin, that they just had to create a new account to reply.

I agree, that would be a problem... But, there's probably 50 clicks a game... So for it to be 20/100,000 it would need to happen every 100 games... which I REALLY doubt is the case. Not even close.

I've never had this problem. Computer or mobile... The thing with compilations are that something only has to happen 20 times to make a big comp... That's 20 clicks of the tens of millions of clicks that happen on Hearthstone every day. You can go ahead and correct me, saying there have been 200 clicks, but that's still 200/8,000,000,000.

This is actually really surprising... I swear i had a very similar situation before, and got the Mass Dispel... But, I think my opponent Priest might have had Khartut Defender out... I was looking for a Hex... I haven't been playing much singleton n the last month or so, but I've noticed Zephyrs has been giving more "unexpected" options.

I'm not even sure if this is allowed... It's originally from the Destiny Reddit 3.5 months ago, and more recently became a top post in the Hearthstone Reddit... It's hilarious how you can change a few nouns and it becomes Hearthstone... I'm sure lots of you have read it (heh), but I'm sure just as many haven't.

ORIGINALLY BY: Pwadigy On Reddit (Jan/20)

I have played dozens of competitive games over dozens of genres (not just video-games) and I have learned many things about people who play competitive games

     Discussion

Quote from bigbrotherandsister >>

Quote from Weikorrr >>

Quote from bigbrotherandsister >>

Quote from Bl0odFilPro >>

One class has to be at the top! 

 Pretty much this. Seriously OP, this is how Hearthstone has always been: one class who's king of the hill and the others who try to bring it down. Sometimes they succeed, most of the times they don't.

But hey, if you're willing to pop your blood vessels and put your health in danger in order for Blizzard to make profits out of you, then be my guest.

 thats just an excuse for bad balancing. There have definitely times where the meta hasnt been this opressive with Super face decks at the bottom, or res priest on the opposite side.

Its particularly garbage at the moment

 

 Well I'm afraid it's not Blizzard's concern if you like it or not. They sold the expansion, no need to care what players do afterwards.

 Yeah, they've been a popular game for 6 years, because they don't care what happens after an expansion... Do people even bother thinking before they post things anymore? You guys do realize, that 99% of the millions of Hearthstone players around the world enjoy the game every expansion, and continue playing, right? You understand Blizzard does this by keeping their fanbase happy and engaged, right? That's how product and service sales work... Sure, you can release crap, and promote the hell out of it, and make one batch of money, but to release a product that remains a top seller for years, requires a good product. 

Do people really think the majority of players hate this game? There will ALWAYS be a sad sack of people who have nothing else in their life, who NEED to cry about something. Honestly, I could buy a preorder, and have Hearthstone mail me a fart in a bag... I would say. "Hm. That sucks.", and move on with my life.... 

The problem is you get like 200 of the 10,000,000 players who are these sad people, and obviously they run to the nearest internet forum, because their entitled voice must be heard!!! And these 200 people just lip service eachother back and forth constantly, to the point where they think they're having a real discussion... Meanwhile the other 9,999,800 people either just enjoy themselves, or move on...

Your complaining doesn't change anything. Sure... Your complaining will represent a shadow of an existing problem, and hearthstone will nerf/adapt/fix it, but they would have done that without your whining... 

Heathstone is Hearthstone, and it will continue to be Hearthstone if you play it or not... Do you really need that sycophantic pat on the back? It's not me!!! It's the game!!! Listen to me!!! Agree with me!!!!! PLEASE!

There's seriously nothing on this board except crying and whining. Nothing funny, or constructive, literally just  barrage of entitled crybabies looking for someone to stroke them. And, like a normal person, instead of creating 300 posts to that regard, I will simply visit less, and less, until I find no value in this site.

Here it comes: "good riddance! If you don't agree with my you're interfering with my back patting, and group hugs, we're better off with out you!!!" *** as the entitled ftp player continues to toss toxic sludge about what Blizzard owes them for using their valuable time to play the game for free.

Okay, if priestess only hit minions, it would NOT be a buff... That's one of the silliest things I've ever heard... Right now, DH generally clears your board with other resources when they get her out, so you take 6 to the face. If you cant clear her, she does 6 attack damage to the face, and 6 more to the face.... Right now, if you need the turn after her for setup... You're finished. 18 guaranteed face damage...If she only hit minions, you have 2 turns to take care of her, only taking 12.

If you don't take care of her the turn she is played, and get some minions out, DH is usually going to kill those minions, so that her after turn affect goes all face... Same scenario with her only hitting minions, your minions get cleared, you don't take that 6 face damage and you get another turn to deal with her... At least this way DH has to work to get your minions down to 6 health through their turn to make her most effective.

Look through past cards... One's that always hit minions have lower mana value than ones that can hit face... There's a reason for that.

Zep... Best tempo.

I don't really like it as an archetype personally, but Murloc Paladin is a T2 deck, between Face Hunter, and Egg Warrior, so saying Paladin is worthless right now is just... Inaccurate. It's actually one of the most annoying decks to play against...

So, I mean, saying there's no worthwhile Paladin deck, or being "only" able to play an under performing Libram build is kind of silly.

How did they know!!??

I've been climbing with a pretty constant winrate with a deck similar to the Control Galakrond Shaman listed on this site...

Quote from Deception5 >>

Quote from TyrantrumRex >>

There are 6 lackeys and 44 dragons in standard... So, the odds of generating Draconic Lackey, and then Dragonqueen Alex is 1 in 264. Then it's dead in your hand if you're not running Highlander until you play out duplicates. 

 Sorry just to clarify - dragon lackey lets you discover 1 of 3 unique choices so it's a better chance.  Been a while since I've taken statistics but if I remember, it's 1-(% chance to draw):

1 - (43/44 * 42/43 * 41/42) = ~7%

 Whoops... Damn discover mechanic. Yeah, you got the option decay right. Thanks for the reminder!

I can get what you're saying, but there's only one AoE freeze card... Mage can generate a few extra copies, but that's the idea of control... Freezing quite literally controls aggro decks... I don't see too many Mages out there (I have a freeze highlander deck that does okay, but don't play it often), 

If it's that big of an issue, drop a couple Living Dragonbreaths in your deck... Generally Mage uses half their resources on freezing, and being able to "undo" the freeze will basically unravel their whole game.

I think we're stuck with the current DH form, but I have a feeling next expansion will see everything else power creep much heavier that what is released for DH... I also expect some heavy tech.

Quote from Kwakdizzle >>

Quote from TyrantrumRex >>

There are 6 lackeys and 44 dragons in standard... So, the odds of generating Draconic Lackey, and then Dragonqueen Alex is 1 in 264. Then it's dead in your hand if you're not running Highlander until you play out duplicates.

Lackeys work in combo decks.

This is like saying Mecha'Thun is unfair, because you can be winning by a landslide, and then lose.

That's the point of combo decks. You need to save the right cards, and be lucky in draw, order and survivability to win.

Should the game just be whoever is winning, should always win? Player who hits the opponent first wins? 

People have such a hard time understanding the whole aggro < control < combo loop, and that you need all 3 to have a viable meta.

If you didn't have control decks, you you would ONLY see Face Hunter

If you didn't have aggro decks, you would ONLY see Tempo Rogue 

If you didn't have combo decks, you would ONLY see Rez Priest.

The meta NEEDS these archetypes, or it simply wouldn't work... Take away Rogue, and the meta will be mirror Ressurect Priest games non-stop.

 

 I don't think lackeys should be nerfed, but I just wanted to correct you: Galakrond rogue is NOT a combo deck. What is the combo? Rogue aims to draw a bunch of zero cost cards and play a high tempo turn to overwhelm the opponents, but that's not a combo. That's like saying Galakrond warlock is a combo deck for needing to invoke into a fully upgraded Galakrond for a high tempo turn. These high tempo turns from Galakrond rogue and warlock make the deck powerful, but they are not combos in the sense that mechathun, raza priest, tog druid, and other combo decks are; combo decks outright win the game through a specific condition, not through a one-turn big board. The only exception may be Nomi decks because that one-turn big board is basically the only thing the deck aims to achieve.

Galakrond rogue is a tempo deck that plays for board, but ends up having way more value than a tempo deck should get away with having. 

You can disagree with me but ask any person on this forum and I'm sure you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks Galakrond rogue is a combo deck. Combo beats control in the tactical wheel, but here, tempo beats control, and that's due to the crazy value endless lackeys provide, and that's why people complain about lackeys. 

 Sorry you're absolutely correct. I meant that Tempo decks tend to fall in with combo decks in the rock<paper<scissors threshold, in that they are supposed to out tempo control, but tend to get run down by aggro.