Hearthpwn

I don't understand why they are changing any cards, the game is fine right now. Pretty disappointed. 

https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/212005-group-therapy-need-to-blow-off-steam-mega-salty

*Honestly though* yes can the totem just be called grace of air and do the same thing so theres a totem of each element

Quote from OverholtNA >>

It's fine, we just need more healing available to control decks other than Priest.

And the Trampling Rhino/hero power combo is a fairly boring mechanic for classes that don't have spell-based card draw. You essentially spend the entire game top-decking because you can't play low health minions to draw/generate, and eventually the hero power and burn from hand trumps whatever healing you manage to draw naturally.

 More healing options would nerf hunter indirectly, its fine the way it is

Quote from SpaceTimeDream >>

Quote from TheSpunYarn >>

Quote from SpaceTimeDream >>

 Most balanced? I don’t agree that a deck that its player can dump their hand as soon as they draw cards without much thought or consideration, is balanced.

I played the deck. 18 games, 72% win rate. I barely think twice before playing a card on curve. The average player shouldn’t be rewarded with a win for playing cards mindlessly. 

 That doesn't really have anything to do with Balance per se, that's just a function of aggressive decks.  Hunter is fair *because* it plays on curve.  It doesn't cheat mana.  It doesn't draw 4/5 cards a turn for no mana.  It plays minions on board and occasionally points spells face, all of which are efficient from a damage/stats standpoint, but don't cycle or generate advantage the way other aggro decks do.

Just because you think a deck doesn't require much thought to play, whether or not that's true, doesn't really have anything to do with balance.

 One player is thinking hard to come up with the most optimal play and think 5 turns ahead while his opponent turns on a fan that drops his card one by one. The former will lose despite the intense skill displaying he showed the latter wins by showing no clear skill or understanding of the game.

Ya, the level of effort required isn’t balanced. 

 The games go quicker as the hunter so the few choices you make have a bigger overall impact, mistakes made when you have few options or turns means bigger draw backs. Id argue face hunter is one of the harder decks to play, not grim patron hard but somewhat close

Quote from user-100026942 >>

Any reasonable human being see that Refreshing Spring Water doesn't need nerf. The restriction it has is enough of a drawback as it is.

Pretty much this, drawing 2 cards for 0 honestly isn't even that good (it's good just not really good). Memory jar draws 7 and and ancestral recall draws 3 in MTG. Classes like shaman and priest would play it if they had access since they lack card draw but I doubt most other classes would run the card themselves

Hey I like the deck but I'm missing and cannot craft Speaker Gidra. Can i substitute her with Lady Vashj and possibly consider running Bloodmage Thalnos over 1 Mana Tide Totem for spell damage. Was also looking to try to squeeze in Primordial Studies for spell count and flexibility (possibly use this over Lady Vashj).

Also with such little overload do you find it a problem to get Landslide to activate twice.

*EDIT* Also without Lightning Bolt, would you consider running bolt or Serpentshrine Portal over Dunk Tank

Making a deck and seeing how well it does against other decks, experimenting with different classes and archetypes, discovering a play style and cards that you enjoy is what makes TCG fun.

So what's the point in playing hearthstone then? I've been playing from open beta and every new meta I've tried to make my own decks, even if they were bad I tried to enjoy the building and experimenting part of the game to it's fullest. However, as more and more websites relating to HS sprouted and netdecking became more relevant, the huge aspect of experimenting and figuring stuff out on your own is completely dead. Playing against the exact same decks over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over... Just killed any point in me trying to make something.

Can someone please answer me - "Is it fun to just copy decks from a website?", "Is it fun not to put any thought in the cards that are in *your* deck?", "Is it fun to play the same exact deck for more than a couple of years?". It can't be, right? Well...

A good example is secret mage. Really wish they would stop printing cards that support the archetype. And if you say - "Well, uhm the deck changed over the years" or "There are stronger decks out there", then you are a moron. For how long secret mage remains as one of the most popular decks in wild? And as for the other part, the deck just replaced cards for better cards that do more or less the exact same thing.  What's the difference between 1 card that can draw 4-6 cards and has a cost of 6 mana, and 2 secrets that cost 0 or 3 mana and can draw you 6 cards? The funny thing is people don't even know why secret mage doesn't run the weapon or the minion anymore. And again, for those of you that say that the secrets are just better - go back to netdecking. The answer is tempo, reliability, disruption, counterplay and symbiosis with other cards. Hope I don't need to digest and explain every part further, since this thread will become too long.

Now back to the main topic. I just can't imagine that someone actually finds it fun to copy a deck and then play only that one deck for more than a year. What's the point in playing then? Why not let someone else play the game or let the computer play for you as well, since you already undermine half of the game already.

I know this is salty and all. And everyone finds pleasure in different things. But I'm just really tired of playing and seeing more or less the exact same decks and loosing to the exact same stuff for years. Every time I play against a unique deck I stop caring about winning or loosing. I just try to figure out what their deck is and what are they trying to do with it. Nowadays, I'll be lucky to play against even 1 unique deck in a week. And the most hilarious part is, that people copy the strongest decks and play casual as well. The only thought that crosses my mind in such situations is what kind of clown am I playing against?

Quote from Bengalaas >>

Quote from SinAscendant >>

 "Several times" Ah yeah sure, several times you went second or got Nature Studies and drew a specific series of 3 cards in the first 9 cards of your deck. Show me the match recordings. Just because 5% of the time you can get a combo off doesnt make it a good combo.

The second one is the hunter beast buff I assume. Conditioning can't be activated until t5, and the beast buff isnt active until t4 unless you go second and coin into a 3 drop to go super ham on it for some reason.

And Kodobane can whiff if you draw him later in the game and have already drawn into all your 1, 2, or 3 drop spells, it has nothing to do with cards available to the class.

 

Spring Water is OP because of the text of the card. It doesn't matter if there are decks that counter it, anything that provides free value with zero input or cost from the player is bad. 

 

Every other card you mentioned requires you to use resources to play it, and makes you more vulnerable; your turn 3 Glowfly Swarm for example leaves you open to Consecrate if youre second, Lightning Storm, School Spirits, etc. Nofin requires you to setup the board. Kodobane makes you play a garbage 5 drop for extra value.

 

Refreshing Spring Water has no downside in any deck that it's included in. Worst case scenario, you pay 4 mana to draw 2; best case scenario you get back 2 mana to draw 2. It isn't just good in 1 deck, it's a staple in all mage decks and will be until it rotates out.

 

If you can't understand that, then you don't know anything about how card games work whatsoever.

 I'll skip the odds of pulling off the Glowfly Swarm because it's leading the discussion astray, but they're not as bad as you think (drawing 9 cards is 30% of your deck plus mulligan after all).

You seem to consider running little to no minions as a negigible cost for refreshing spring water, but take that same card and put it in a class like Paladin or Demon Hunter and it would never see any amount of play.

If you believe that a 4 mana draw 2 is a passable potential downside in today's Hearthstone then you clearly have no grasp of the game. That is a straight up game losing scenario. As for the potential to gain mana from it, that requires not only the deckbuilding restrictions to be met, but also a setup (very much like the cards i brought up, for which you are still missing the point). It is obvious to me that if any card was a problem in this deck that would be Incanter's Flow, but i doubt that the deck actually needs nerfs.

 >take that same card and put it in a class like Pally or DH and it wouldn't see play

Uhm... so what? We're talking about the current scenario not some random what-if. If Tickatus was in Mage or Pally it probably wouldn't see play either. Same with, say, Liadrin in any non Libram deck. Or Y'shaarj in a non Corrupt deck. A card being bad outside of its archetype is totally irrelevant to its power level. 

Once again, the issue is not that Spring Water is a 4 mana draw 2, it is that in reality it will almost NEVER be a 4 mana draw 2. Without any other modifiers, it will always be a 0 mana draw 2 in spell mage, and will be a 2 mana draw 2 about 80% of the time in generic mage, and 90% of the time in spell damage or ping mage which only run 6-8 minions. That is exactly my point. If it were nerfed to 1 mana per spell drawn, then it WOULD be in the position that you're describing and would be balanced. It would be cheaper than AI in a spell mage deck, and would be a competitive amount of draw power in a regular mage deck.

Don't worry about control warrior, I think control warlock can easily put him into the bay, because of:

Tickatus

A lot of removals

Tickatus

Healing with soul fragments

Tickatus

Strong late game with new Jaraxxus

Did I mentioned Tickatus?

Quote from DeafKnight >>

Warlock removal and disruption is the whole point of the archetype and is supposed to be like that. 
Seriously, if your deck can't win if it loses one or two key cards then the problem is your deck, not the opponent. 

There's an old proverb about eggs and baskets that applies quite nicely here...

 You can literally make that argument for any deck at all, "Oh the RNG of Deck of Lunacy is the whole point of the archetype" the card is put in the deck for a reason so why you complaining when the reason its there actually works right?, People are'nt putting it in their decks for the lols of it they have build a deck purely around Deck of Lunacy, They avoid 5 drop spells because 8 drop spells are dreadful, They put in 3-4 7 drop spells because they want Nagrand Slam, They stack 3 and 4 drop spells because they give 6 and 7 drop spells which are largely mass card draw and mass AoE spells, The whole point of that archetype is built to get the most out of Deck of Lunacy, Its supposed to be like that.

Pen Flinger, Rogue and Paladin build their decks around that card, That is the pure archetype of that deck to take advantage of Pen Flinger as much as possible, Why people complaining about it, Its supposed to be like that.

You can literally make the "Its the archetype its supposed to be like that" for literally any deck in the game because they are built to a archetype so obviously that is how the deck is supposed to play that does'nt mean its not a problem, Look back at previous decks that have been dominant in the past, Machine gun priest, Quest rogue, All of them have had the archetype they will build to and all of them did what they were supposed to be doing the problem was they did it way too good and that is the same as Tickatus, It does what it does but it does it to a level that no other deck can even consider playing a control archetype.