Hearthpwn

I don't understand why they are changing any cards, the game is fine right now. Pretty disappointed. 

Quote from yepapapepeap >>

Quote from Tycon >>

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Quote from FossyMox >>

I like Zeddy's idea of changing the Elemental condition from  "if you played an elemental last turn" to "If you're holding an elemental". It makes more sense to me and is an easier condition to meet, which is clearly necessary to bring shaman up a little bit. 

I also think a card that negates the effect of overload would be nice. Maybe a legendary because it might be OP, but a 0 mana "your crystals will not be overloaded next turn" could lead to some interesting plays if Shaman is able to go off without punishment during a single turn.

Mainly though, just give them card draw. My idea is to Print a 2 mana Draw 3 (overload 1 for each spell drawn).

If my ideas seem OP, it's because they are. Give shaman love Blizz, I'm sick of mages and paladins.

 

 making elemental into dragon I dont consider a good idea, just let shaman have draw so we can reasonably use the elemental effect

 I agree that stealing from dragon's is kind of unthematic, giving shaman card draw isn't the answer either. Lack of card draw is part of shamans identity, you have discover mechanics but far sight was removed for a reason. What a class can't do is just as important as what it can do and shaman along with priest shouldn't have card draw. Rogues, druids, paladins and mages excel in card draw.

 you really argue that being 9 cards behind other classes in draw is the shaman class design? lol

 It's not really 9 cards, outside of maybe rogue classes only have so much draw. Shaman has neutral draw like loot horder and bloodmage thalnos. But yes card draw isn't that strong (compared to other abilities you get with the class), shaman's identity weakness is lack of card draw balanced. You get mana ramp with overload and direct damage, shaman definitely shouldn't have any class card draw.

Quote from Unthahorsten >>

I don't know why they didn't add Ancestral Knowledge to the core and buff it to draw three. Would it be even OP today?

Also: 1 mana legendary 2/2 Elemental - Battlecry: You always played elemental last turn this game (or something like this)?

 This is just a class shifted arcane intellect with 2 overload instead of 1 mana so it's not unique and it steps on mages toes. Also, it goes against shamans class design weakness of not drawing cards. I'm surprised they even let mana tide totem in the core set as that's something shaman isn't supposed to do

Quote from yepapapepeap >>

Quote from FossyMox >>

I like Zeddy's idea of changing the Elemental condition from  "if you played an elemental last turn" to "If you're holding an elemental". It makes more sense to me and is an easier condition to meet, which is clearly necessary to bring shaman up a little bit. 

I also think a card that negates the effect of overload would be nice. Maybe a legendary because it might be OP, but a 0 mana "your crystals will not be overloaded next turn" could lead to some interesting plays if Shaman is able to go off without punishment during a single turn.

Mainly though, just give them card draw. My idea is to Print a 2 mana Draw 3 (overload 1 for each spell drawn).

If my ideas seem OP, it's because they are. Give shaman love Blizz, I'm sick of mages and paladins.

 

 making elemental into dragon I dont consider a good idea, just let shaman have draw so we can reasonably use the elemental effect

 I agree that stealing from dragon's is kind of unthematic, giving shaman card draw isn't the answer either. Lack of card draw is part of shamans identity, you have discover mechanics but far sight was removed for a reason. What a class can't do is just as important as what it can do and shaman along with priest shouldn't have card draw. Rogues, druids, paladins and mages excel in card draw.

Way too many nerfs, no deck is overpowered or that strong atm at least compared to everything else. Maybe after the Meta has settled for a good couple months it might be time to consider nerfs. Games like starcraft or fighters go years without patches and sport competitive communities. Maybe 1 patch a year for balance would be acceptable

*edit* Buffs are indicrect nerfs to strong cards which they may power creep them or surpass them so no buffs eithers. Buffs are nerfs in disguise

Quote from westlakers >>

Quote from Bengalaas >>

Unlike what a lot of people think, Shaman is not trash tier. It's not great, but not terrible.

It is however not fun to play. It's boring, predictable, stuck in 2014 playstyle.

 Huh? its hot garbage right now. You have no card draw barely any finish unless its a combo you've held onto from turn one, and its full of conditional cards that cripple it. Worst its been in a while actually. 

 For all we know, shaman could be one of the classes to get the upcoming 5 class nerfs. Shaman is exceptional atm, pizza got top 50 with his face shaman deck. Doom hammer might see a nerf since it's in basically every shaman deck.

Cool deck, any replacement for The Lurker Below?
Also is there a variant that runs the Cagematch custodian + weapon package for tempo. Sad that grounds keeper is 4 mana other wise it combos well with tidal wave but kazakus kind of blocks her off

https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/212005-group-therapy-need-to-blow-off-steam-mega-salty

*Honestly though* yes can the totem just be called grace of air and do the same thing so theres a totem of each element

Cards in your deck don't matter, this is akin to that 8/8 golem from years past that milled you for 3 if your opponent plays a card. Games should be fast enough even if tickatus milled your entire deck it wouldn't see play

Quote from Bengalaas >>

The card was nerfed because it was extremely unfun to play against. Currently it has been dropped by the "good" mage lists, as it's playrate and winrate at 4 mana are very low, but some people still like running it.

Spell mage (without DoL) continues to be a very strong deck, but it depends on the shape of the metagame as it does have counters.

 I understand it being unfun and why it was nerfed due to this reason that makes more sense. 

Spell mage is not that strong though, never was even close.

Quote from yepapapepeap >>

as a guy who has gotten legend with shaman only many times including this season and is currently at 6k wins with shaman these are the changes I would make to shaman at its current state

make floated mana reduce overloaded crystals
make it so the cast last turn with elementals and spells can also be done on the current turn to activate 

and maybe give some draw... like cmon

 This would break shaman bringing them over the top. Lack of card draw, planning turns ahead of time and over load being actually penalizing is part of its class identity and keeping shaman from overshowing the other classes.

I don't know why it was nerfed in the first place, it wasn't even that strong to begin with. Paladin had a higher win rate and Paladin even isnt that good. Lunacy/spell mage also loses to aggro. Nerfing it again is so unnecessary

Quote from b1ak1ce >>

no class is bad, just some are more inconsistent than others.

 Well said, every class is viable and equal in power. No class needs nerfs or buffs currently

Quote from OverholtNA >>

It's fine, we just need more healing available to control decks other than Priest.

And the Trampling Rhino/hero power combo is a fairly boring mechanic for classes that don't have spell-based card draw. You essentially spend the entire game top-decking because you can't play low health minions to draw/generate, and eventually the hero power and burn from hand trumps whatever healing you manage to draw naturally.

 More healing options would nerf hunter indirectly, its fine the way it is

Quote from SpaceTimeDream >>

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Quote from SpaceTimeDream >>

 Most balanced? I don’t agree that a deck that its player can dump their hand as soon as they draw cards without much thought or consideration, is balanced.

I played the deck. 18 games, 72% win rate. I barely think twice before playing a card on curve. The average player shouldn’t be rewarded with a win for playing cards mindlessly. 

 That doesn't really have anything to do with Balance per se, that's just a function of aggressive decks.  Hunter is fair *because* it plays on curve.  It doesn't cheat mana.  It doesn't draw 4/5 cards a turn for no mana.  It plays minions on board and occasionally points spells face, all of which are efficient from a damage/stats standpoint, but don't cycle or generate advantage the way other aggro decks do.

Just because you think a deck doesn't require much thought to play, whether or not that's true, doesn't really have anything to do with balance.

 One player is thinking hard to come up with the most optimal play and think 5 turns ahead while his opponent turns on a fan that drops his card one by one. The former will lose despite the intense skill displaying he showed the latter wins by showing no clear skill or understanding of the game.

Ya, the level of effort required isn’t balanced. 

 The games go quicker as the hunter so the few choices you make have a bigger overall impact, mistakes made when you have few options or turns means bigger draw backs. Id argue face hunter is one of the harder decks to play, not grim patron hard but somewhat close

Nerfing any of paladins card would destroy the class after the sword nerfs, they kind of designed themselves in a corner so there isn't much to be done. Paladin needs draw, librams and secrets to function.