Hearthpwn

Quote from Shadowrisen >>

Wow, the first page of this thread manages to pack 100 pages of salt thread vitriol into a neat little package.

Marvel Snap is an amazing first offering in a business sense.  Regardless of longevity, I imagine the development costs have already been dwarfed by the returns, and introducing Second Dinner as a competent concern is more important than it has ever been in a world where a fairly high percentage of game launches don't begin to deliver as promised (to say nothing of the prominence of early access campaigns which fold without ever offering anything).

That being said, I would love to hear objective justification for the claims made regarding the "mediocre" track record of Hearthstone.  Someone made the incredibly cringe "point" of suggesting that Hearthstone's relative obscurity compared to the Metal Gear franchise somehow proves . . . something.  I hope that point wasn't doubled down too often in the subsequent pages.  For anyone clinging to that brilliance as evidence, allow me to suggest that Hideo Kojima is a bum by your standards, and the real genius is the man/woman/wolfkin/etc behind Candy Crush (name recognition is your metric, not mine).

All this being said, I'm glad the "look out [established game], [month old game] is going to replace you" crowd is still hale and hearty.  I've been enjoying those predictions since Aion was to kill World of Warcraft.

 

 I think that you are expressing very confusing ideas. The man/woman who made Candy Crush is a genius, yes, because he/she made the perfect money grab able to stay the first app in revenue still today. Anyway, Candy Crush is not art, but a simple game for money grab. I posted the games with the highest reviews for the people, so what you think or what I think it is not very relevant, this list is based on thousands of comments and Metal Gear is inside the list multiple times. 

I defined HS "mediocre" because as I already explained, there is no way that you can consider it art. You are talking about revenue, I am talking about art and the games with the highest reviews score from people (so what is worldwide accepted as amazing). I also would like to notice that none of these games are F2P with an in-game shop. In fact, I also don't like this business model at all.

Yes. Sure. The game is new. On Steam the vote is anyway similar. 

This is off-topic. We are talking about generally accepted masterpieces. HS is not in any list. Here is a list, for example, ranked for user rating (so people's opinion). There is no way, HS has not designed the history of games (it is only a good card game, nothing more) and Metal Gear has not designed only the stealth action but the whole industry.

https://www.imdb.com/search/title/?title_type=game&sort=user_rating,desc

Curiosity: Marvel Snap is even ranked by the people more than HS like now. 

For me, makes sense. I agree with their definition. It is a company started in the garage that received money in funding so, it is an indie company still in startup. I am not interested in defining precisely at the cent what define indie by what it not indie, and we are out of topic. 

You know how much I care about winning an argument? 0. I have my thinking if you agree ok, if you don't agree, it is still ok, I care 0. I indeed don't want to lose more time in this post. Furthermore, I think it is stupid. 

If you don't agree with their definition, write to Second Dinner or open another post. 

It is not a personal attack, I have respect for you. But you are totally out of topic. This is not the post with the title "Is Second Dinner an indie company?" I have used their definition. So, we don't have anything to argue. If you don't agree with their definition, write to Second Dinner or open another post. 

Sherman for me is funnier because you are an amateur that designed a guy that jumps over a cloud, and now you believe that you can correct a company's website about what is indie and what it is not indie. 

Quote from Joshbuckler >>

Shipmen, you're comparing interest, today, in a game that's released this week with one in its eighth year. Either you can see how silly that is or there's not much point engaging with you. 

And $30 million isn't "2 cents." And no one else agrees with your definition of indie company, for reasons that are obvious. 

Come on dude I know you're angry about the excess coins thing and they wouldn't refund you for those packs you opened but this is ridiculous. 

I thought you'd stopped playing anyway?

 It seems out of topic. I am not so hungry for myself any more, PayPal refunded me :). I am not playing HS yes. Furthermore, I stopped during the expansion of the colossus (I don't remember the name). I am checking the data. I like it. And yes, I will never play another Blizzard's game because I consider it a terrible company. You have not to agree or disagree, the definition is not mine, it is in their website. You have to agree or disagree with Brode. 

@Sherman. 30M is not the development cost, but the funding cost. Huge difference. Inside you have to pay rent, food, materials, etc... real development cost is much, much lower. Anyway. It is stupid and arrogant, your approach. I mean, I provided their definition, then it is correct. So, it is pointless that you say that for you, it is not indie, tell it to Brode. Anyway, it started in the garage, and it received the money, so I agree with their definition. https://venturebeat.com/business/ben-brode-hamilton-chu-second-dinner-raises-30-million-from-netease-partner-marvel/

Yes, indeed Sherman. Is it a Triple A? I think that you are confusing amateur and Indie company. Anyway. I have taken their definition. If you don't like it, ask to Brode why is using it. 

Maybe, I didn't even try it. What anyway astonished me is the result, that for sure it is inflated by the recent release and the Marvel franchise. I think that it is anyway an incredible accomplishment for an indie company with 2 cents without history to generate now more interest than 2 Blizzard games combined. These 2 games are well established games, one out for many years and another very recent and part of one of the most known franchises in the gaming history. So, Brode did an impressive job and Blizzard is doing a terrible job. 

Quote from Sherman1986 >>

Quote from Shipmen>>

But it is made by an indie company without a history.

Calling Second Dinner an indie company is so wrong. As an indie developer myself, I find such statement incredible offensive. Having said that, don't worry, I'm not here to make a fuss about it, just wanted to point that out, that's all. :P

 https://seconddinner.com/press-release/ 

Their definition: "Second Dinner is a small indie game development company based in Irvine, California. It hasn’t published anything yet, but is pretty sure that it will someday."

Now, we can agree or disagree with this definition. It is anyway, definitely, not wrong. 30M company in gaming is minimal. Indie companies are not only 3 guys inside the garage that tries to change the world with the grandmother's bonus. 

Quote from Sherman1986 >>

Quote from Shipmen >>

Are you joking? Hideo Kojima is a terrible example. He designed the history of the games. Brode is a random guy who managed a card game with an overall mediocre success. 

Wait, what?

 Yes. It has been a good card game, but it is very far to be a pillar in the games like Metal Gear :). I mean, if you write a list with the most important games in the history, I am quite certain that you would not include HS. Metal Gear instead will be inside the list, definitely. 

Anyway, this is off-topic. 

Are you joking? Hideo Kojima is a terrible example. He designed the history of the games. Brode is a random guy who managed a card game with an overall mediocre success. 

No. It is not. If you like games when you feel in a supermarket of scams, good for you. In my opinion, inside the definition of quality game, in-game shop is not even contemplated. 

Quote from Sherman1986 >>

Quote from Shipmen>>

Because if Second Dinner announce a new game, very few people will care, when Activision Blizzard announces a new game all newspaper in the world will talk about it. So, if an unknown company without history can generate more interest with a game than two big titles coming from the biggest gaming company in the world, it is astonishing. It is astonishing how Activision Blizzard is doing a poor work. 

So, if Hideo Kojima decides to start a new company right now, would you call it "an unknown company without history" as well? I don't think so, because Kojima alone is enough to generate an insane amount of interest. Ben Brode is not as famous as him, but he is pretty well known in the world of digital card games, don't forget that.

 Well, yes, Hideo Kojima is a recognized genius, Brode is a person. So, I doubt that this is relevant. Probably it was relevant to receive the funds, but I doubt that it is very relevant Brode to generate interest, maybe something but very little. Anyway, my point is not only that Marvel Snap is generating more interest that HS + Diablo Immortal, which is crazy. But also, that this game was created with 2 cents compared to HS + Diablo Immortal. So, it is crazy that a company with very few resources (money and capability to attract talented people) is doing better than HS + Diablo. 

Quote from Sherman1986 >>

Quote from Shipmen>>

But it is made by an indie company without a history.

Calling Second Dinner an indie company is so wrong. As an indie developer myself, I find such statement incredible offensive. Having said that, don't worry, I'm not here to make a fuss about it, just wanted to point that out, that's all. :P

 Well, you cannot like the word indie. It is for sure a very small company. A spit compared to Blizzard.