Hearthpwn

Can't believe they didn't nerf Libram of Hope. Wttttffff

Quote from TheSpunYarn >>

Quote from ShadowAldrius >>

Also typically inspire is not a good keyword. It's often either way too weak or it's busted. But also, Inspire is VERY specific in terms of flavour to Grand Tournament. The Flag UI, the fact that it's called "inspire".

 In my opinion, "Inspire" is vague enough of a word to not really have it assigned to just TGT.  I would venture to say that the people fighting on skyships against evil dragons could use some "Inspiration", wouldn't you?  If the Alliance had a card who was like, a super famous Alliance general speaking to rally the troops, and his text was functionally Inspire, wouldn't that make sense?  All I'm saying it that Keyword flavor can be tuned to individual cards.

Besides, Discover, the League of Explorer's Keyword is and always has been flavored to them.  Discover, like finding something in an old tomb.  Heck, the animation to this day still has gold coins flying everywhere with the clinking sound effect.

 True but then I would have wanted to see more inspire cards, but I think in that case the purpose was more just them toying with giving the hunter hero power some tempo-style effects.

 Not gonna neg on all the effort this obviously took but I strongly disagree with a lot of takes here.

Primordial protector for example is a cycle card that cycles into a high impact spell and summons a ton of stats onto the board. And the only deckbuilding requirement is that your deck have expensive spells. It always pulls the most expensive one.

It keeps things consistent and tell us that they care about the development of their game and its own rules and peculiarities. 

If only two cards in a 500+ card format use the keyword, I don't really... get that? I don't see how that means they don't care about the game's "rules" and such.

It makes more sense in Wild I suppose to reuse keywords, but I don't even really think keywords are for Wild Players anyway.

Also typically inspire is not a good keyword. It's often either way too weak or it's busted. But also, Inspire is VERY specific in terms of flavour to Grand Tournament. The Flag UI, the fact that it's called "inspire".

Charge, Taunt, Discover, Rush, Lifesteal are all extremely common keywords, I think they exist in every single expansion. So A) Knowing what they do is extremely important. And B) You're going to see them a lot.

Have they ever addressed specifically why they won't reuse keywords? Like, is it because it would be complicated for people just getting into the game?

Because it's just pointless if only one or two cards in the whole format use a keyword. Like is the extra line of text on a card that distressing?

Also a lot of the keywords are pretty flavourful and tied to the expansion they come from.

Objectively there's no... real reason to even have keyword honestly. 

Quote from mariners24 >>

One area where they kind of blew this in my opinion is printing a pure Paladin legendary that is not on the same year as the other pure Paladin cards. So now the only current payoff for pure Paladin decks after rotation is the 7/5 legendary. It shows how printing a theme or keyword (sort of) can really weaken some cards because they rotate from standard at different times. 

now it’s basically a guarantee no one will run pure Paladin for that single card unless they print more pure Paladin cards this year.. which again will rotate after the legendary will..

 Eh... Yrel is a  pretty damn good card, and making sure your deck has only class cards isn't like... THAT strict a requirement.

He's just an overall solid card. I wouldn't say he's been power-crept out, just that the meta is so removal heavy. The reason he kinda works in classic, is that he has a chance to stick around and/or throw off your opponent's curve to remove him.

I mean if by they "fizzle out" you mean they were designed for that one expansion and were not to be reused multiple times through out the game. The only reason keywords resurfaced in Galakrond's Awakening and Darkmoon Races was because it was kind of a "victory lap" set. Recapping the year. Which I think worked really well.

Frenzy will be back in the Wailing Caverns set, and likely the last bonus set of the year as well.

I get why they don't reuse keywords, even when they apply (like Inspire and Recruit). If you only have like... one recruit card, I think it's weirder to use the keyword than it is to just have that one set card (one standard card even) use that keyword. Not only is it confusing for new players it just feels kinda... pointless?

If they were going to reuse a key word like Inspire. I'd rather they do like... I dunno, return to the Grand Tournament or something. or "Stormwind Faire Grounds" or something. Bring back the mechanic in earnest and have a lot of cards use the keyword.

The main mechanics I'd like to see back are magnetic (just a good flavour for mechs), I wouldn't mind them taking another shot at the Worgen flipping mechanic, I wouldn't mind them bringing back twinspell, just because I think that was a really good mechanic.

But inspire, recruit, adapt, overkill... meh. I don't think those mechanics were that worth it, I wouldn't be that keen on seeing them return.

New Priest stuff, Dragon Aspects, new warrior stuff, mill Warlock, tempo secret mage, Control Paladin, Celestial Alignment Druid.

Insight is good card, definitelly. But thriwe is nerfed version of 4 years old card - shadow vision. Shadow vision would make sense, as it would offer you another copy of card, but you dont want to pay 2 mana tax in miracle deck for a card, which is having comparable effect to palm reading and renew (limited pool of spells), while not doing something extra (discount, cheap heal)? 

Copying vs. Drawing isn't that like... massive a difference. Copying was cool back in the day because you could copy something like Mind Blast and get a 15 damage burst into your hand. Or get extra copies of removal for control match ups. But otherwise the card is primarily a tutor, you pick something you want or need now. Need Soul Mirror? Have a good chance to grab it. Shadow Word Death? Get it. Tutors are just useful, and 2 mana, draw a card is just a fair cycle.

Plus you can discount it with Palm Reading which you couldn't with Shadow Visions.

I mean it is dramatic but ultimately any random generation in the meta reduces the resource management aspect of the game which is what I enjoy. I like to know what cards my opponent has in their deck so I can properly play mine basically. The higher the cost of the card the less I’m inclined to be bothered by it though as the rippling effect they have on the game is nowhere near as much as something like Babbling Book or Sethek.

But see, to an extent there still is a resource management element because you need to track what cards came from what. Renew is bound to give your opponent healing, a tutor or removal most likely and then a small minority of priest cards summon a minion. Palm Reading uses the same pool. So even if you don't know, say, how many Soul Mirrors he has, you know he got a random card off of renew, and that, that could be another Soul Mirror or Shadow Word: Ruin.

Mage pool is getting limited a lot more too. There's gonna be generation effects (draw, other effects), AoE, burn, freeze and then I think the sole card that actually summons minions is Grand Finale? I also don't think any of the current generation effects for mage are particularly undercosted or unfair?

Like I know all this is more difficult and it's more about maximizing odds than it is making sure-fire plays, but it's still possible to more or less track what your opponent has. At least to a certain degree. 

Sethekk's held back by the fact that he has to play a targeted spell, and they cut down on the number of cheap targeted spells hugely in the new set. No more getting silence randomly, no more penance, no more power word: shield, no more lazul's scheme. Which honestly, as someone who really likes Sethekk Veilweaver, is just cool. Less chance of getting stuck because your hand is too full.

Having watched the preview streams yesterday (mostly Kibler -- who did play spell priest) I DID notice there was a lot less greedy huge value generation. Where people just cycle through 8 cards and fill their hand up. The lack of Overflow, Mana Cyclone, Galakrond, and so forth WAS noticable. As someone who's not a fan of huge volume card generation, I appreciated that.

Quote from Kinkyjohnfowler >>

Please explain to me how it is nonsense to want the mechanic removed? (And I'm talking about competitively viable cards here, not literally every random generation removed). And how it "always being a part of the game" (it hasn't outside of cards like Ysera) has any relevancy on the mechanic being stupid to me?

You're massively underplaying just how much of an effect random generation has on the game if you think me wanting it removed is 'stupid'. Even a small amount of random gen completely changes the game across the board. Even a seemingly small card like Babbling Book has a HUGE effect on the game. If you enjoy it then fair enough, if the recourse management side of the game is of no interest to you, and you just want to play each game as it comes and enjoy the roller-coaster ride from the start to the finish, taking the bumps along the way, then great. I don't though, and the only answer to that is for Blizzard to stop printing competitively viable random generation (or you know, me 'playing another game' which I have no desire to do).

 I mean every card game has an element of randomness. Maybe not generation, but Tinkmaster Overspark, Ysera, Arcane Missiles, etc. etc. all decided games despite being completely random. Drawing cards from your deck is random.

My tone was probably too harsh, but I'm just saying, if you don't like the mechanics allowed by a digital card game, then there are a fair few games that don't have that. And saying "I don't want ANY random generation" or even "I don't want random generation to be competitively viable" is pretty dramatic. Random mechanics aren't necessarily non-competitive.

Ahhh, I kinda forgot they didn't put Naralex into the Forged in the Barrens set.

That'll probably be the mini-set legendary.

Quote from Kinkyjohnfowler >>

Errr, I don’t want to go and play a physical card game though. That is an absolutely absurd reaction to me wishing random generation was removed (at least from powerful cards).  

 I mean it isn't. Wanting random generation removed is... nonsense. It's always been a part of the game, it always will be. That's one of the benefits of having it be a digital card game. They've severely toned it down over the last year, and it's almost non-existant in the new set.

Quote from DNsingbanana >>

It's pretty funny how priest got a lot of cards supporting a "have a lot of spells in hand" archetype, yet no real card draw to support it. And Refreshing Spring Water got released.. as a mage card! While this would have been a pretty good card to support such archetype. 

Also, "no card draw" is like the worst class identity design ever. It's a card game, if you say a class can't just put card  draw to play the cards it put in its deck, you're not setting the class to be a particularly fun one.

Also, the whole heal/lifesteal cards priest got this expansion come right as the heal quest is rotating out, which would have given the archetype atleast a way to win the game. Whatever priest deck comes out of this expansion, it's not going to be anything new. Priest got some tools this expansion, but no new archetype supporting cards. Self-mill warlock or hero power mage might not turn out to be amazing, but atleast it's something new or supported in different ways than it was in the past.

 There are tons of new decks. You don't need dramatically new mechanics to make new decks. Spell Priest doesn't need card draw, it has Sethekk, Renew, Palm Reading. There're lots of tools to keep your hand size up.

Again, totally premature and ridiculously overdramatic.

Play one day of the meta before doomsaying.

Probably get one in April if the meta shift doesn't shake things up and the same decks with pen flinger are still on top.

Quote from Kinkyjohnfowler >>

I would gladly see random generation removed from the game entirely tbh.

 Then... go play a physical card game? Generating spells has been a part of the classes' identity since Un'goro. They should change Sethekk and Renew to give a specific range to the cost of the spells they generate, but otherwise pretty much all the problem generation is not in the new year.

Quote from Bigboi >>

Looking at all the cards of priest I assume in the next expansion this class Will focus on control.

The class should not get any card draw because of the many card generation the class has.

So if the class wants card draw the the card generation cards needs to be toned down.

Its one or the other not Both.

 This is clearly not true, though. Mage has both. Warrior has both. Rogue has had both (with Lackeys). Priest has card draw ultimately, but it's very limited, and they are clearly supposed to rely more on consistent card generation effects; but it's still not accurate to say that they can't have both.

Sethekk Veilweaver makes up for the lack of card draw to a degree, and Priest has other options for gaining value and cycling through the deck (Alura, Raise Dead, G'huun, Thrive in the Shadows, Insight). And then there's card draw/value generation every class has access to (Voracious Reader and Malygos and Ysera). But not every deck can afford to put the whole Sethekk package in.

I think everyone is completely overreacting to what Priest was given this coming year, and are far too concerned with traditional "win conditions" and "card draw". It looks great to me, especially since Dragon is rotating and a lot of the incredibly strong board clears and removal tools are rotating. As are the endless value and randomness which was contributed by A LOT of the Dragon cards (looking at mage here). Ysera and Malygos will provide relevant value, those are win conditions.

It sucks that Shadow Form is so much more boring than Wildfire mage, and that Wildfire is so much better designed than Shadowform is. But Shadow Form is still a good card in priest, and it does have it's advantages (Thrive in the Shadows, Palm Reading to discover and reduce it's cost). 

The main thing I'm seeing priest gain in the new expac is something they've kinda slowly been gaining over time. Pressure. Their boards clears are no longer full board clears, you can build up a board while destroying your opponent's. Xyrella is insanely good at this. There are lots of options for priest decks anyway. And finishers in the form of Alexstrasza, Shadowy Spirit and Shadow Form.

Dragon Priest, Outpost Priest, Spell Priest, Tempo Priest, Heal Priest, Corrupt Priest, maybe N'zoth priest -- there are lots of options.  I dunno what's going to stick. But saying there are no options for decks when it's a whole new year and everything's been turned on it's head is premature and overdramatic.