Hearthpwn

Thanks for the correction @Bengalaas and @HorarceWalpol that explains how people hit 11-12k on average despite it seemingly being a horrific grind post 50. I guess it made sense to me that the XP would remain at 5k, but also post level 100 in the new track the XP was, well, 1300-1500 which I thought was halved and more from what it used to be, like other levels were.

I will edit my calculation soon.

Oof, hard to say. So many great cards over the years. Some in style, some in power, some in plain genius design.

If I had to pick one I will pick Open the Waygate as it was such a unique card that allowed for a very powerful (though not so easy to pull off) effect that was never seen before at the time. It also allowed for what is perhaps my all time favourite deck, the "Exodia" Mage with Antonidas and infinite fireballs.

Quote from SneezyDwarf_18710 >>

Well I can attest to the casual portion. I have the most gold going into an expansion that I have ever had.  I also bought the darkmoon races mini set for 2k gold in the middle of this expansion cycle and still am at 9500g. I typically play only 2-3 bgs games a day, and rarely any constructed (just enough to clear our my quest log every few days. I missed a few weekly quests here and there, but overall got a majority completed. I’m all on board with the new system. 

 Thanks for the input m8. So with the 2k you spent on the mini-set you made 11,5k this expansion cycle correct? None of that gold was from before and none was spent elsewhere (arenas, packs, etc)?

Quote from tomastefan >>

I used to think the same. I haven't made a gold calculus, but you didn't took into account the free extra guaranteed legendary. How much you value a legendary from a set, that's the question. 400 dust, 1600? I'd say about 700-800 dust, if I had to choose between a 8 packs and a random legendary, I'd take the legendary no question asked. (also, the statistics say that a pack contains ~98 dust in average if you were to disenchant everything. So in avg 1g=1dust and 1 pack=100dust=100g). If you see it this way, the new system is slightly better for even the mid and top tier. Also the mid and top tier would like a random legendary even more considering the duplicate protection. Also, add in the arena thickets (another 120g in value).

For me, I'd say I'm mid, lvl ~175, played a lot less then any other expansion. Got the 2k miniset, 2 heroes (3k g), and i'm still at ~7k profit this expansion. The best I ever had was 10k before and I used to play a lot more. Conclusion: another 10% xp for lvlup nerf would settle this discussion once and for all.

 I did take into account the non-gold material benefits of the reward track, packs, tickets, rares, epics and legends all. I estimated their value at 2,2k g. Now we can disagree on the estimate ofc (note the estimate is for FitB, the DF one is about half that). One thing for sure is that people value things differently, an old player probably doesn't value Phoenix packs much since they already have about all the cards they'd want. Given the popularity of the thread where a player says they won't buy FitB packs much it seems even they are not so hot right now. A player who intends to buy 40 or so packs has little need for the rares we are being given, etc. Again depends on the player but ultimately all would prefer the pure gold equivalent since that lets them do whatever it is they like most.

Another thing to consider is that before we got a few packs to celebrate the launch of new expansions, sometimes legends too (I recall C'thun at the very least) but now these have been rolled into the reward track. It is more sure but we did lose a bit in other areas.

Nonetheless I am glad you posted and shared your thoughts. Seems they are in line with what others have been saying, that they made about 11k without too much effort and that it is markedly better than before.

Quote from Kayel >>

I usually only play to do daily missions, before reward tracking I could get 6K gold, and now I’m with 10K, could be more but I spent 2K in packs after Darkmoon Races

 This player seems to corroborate it as well.

I need to grind XP like crazy to reach as deep into the track as I can before I run out of time. So knowing when the expansion is likely to hit will help me lots.

Will it hit 00:01 Tuesday or sometime during the day? When do expansions generally arrive?

Thanks for the answers in advance

The track resets Tuesday, your XP is very unlikely to carry over but it could happen given that this is the first time this is happening. Not sure if the expansion will launch Tuesday 00:01 or sometime during the day, been too long since I played too, I will ask in another thread.

Anyway ideally you want to hit Tuesday with just having completed a level, as little excess XP as possible. But if possible you want to finish as many levels on the current track as you can. It is just the optimal thing to do. Now that you are active again you will finish the next track easily in about two months but what you miss on this track is lost forever. Given how inefficient post lvl 50 questing is there is absolutely no benefit to leaving unclaimed stuff on this track to get very deep into the next one. Since again you are pretty much guaranteed to hit level 50 on the next track just from quests.

Quote from VladIvan >>

I'm not sure if this is a bug or if it's how it's intended to be, but when I did my daily quests (play 3 games using druid, rogue, hunter), my quest did not count when I did not win my casual matches and only when I won? Kinda strange because it was never like this before...

 If you scroll down a bit you will see insta-conceding does not count for the quest anymore. Infact it seems any kind of high health concedeing does not work, some guy said he conceded with 25ish HP after a minutes long sluggfest where his aggro deck ran out of juice and it did not count. So if you want it done quickly by losing consider making a self-harm deck, or (less ideally) just AFK until they kill you. Wild is probably best for this.

Sounds like some really weird bug, wish I had something more useful to say but I do not. Some points though, you may not know that duplicate protection has been implemented making it impossible to get duplicates unless you have already filled up that rarity (this also counts cards you pulled or crafted but DE). You are not crazy you know you got dupes though. Another, slim, possibility is that you saw Golden cards being awarded to you but not seeing them after, those are erroneously showing Core cards that will not be available until FitB launches. But you speak of opening packs so doesn't sound like that either. 

It is probably none of this however and some weird bug instead, hope you solve it. Good luck.

@HoraceStapleton from your review I got the feeling you think Frenzy warrior will be a tier 3 or at best tier 2 deck.

I am disappointed you think Frenzy archetype is so shit in its own expansion. Fortunately I have hope for it this year (and the next). Because next expansion is Stormwind, Evelyn Forrest or Lakeshire. As we had Alliance cards in Barrens for sake of parity and to avoid angering the fanboys I expect some Horde in those places, and so more Frenzy.

The expansion after that will be a clash of Alliance and Horde, probably in Alterac Valley, more Frenzy. Minisets will also hopefully add even more Frenzy.

I have hope this deck, and mage hero power, will come into their own. Such a massive waste of effort if they don't.

I just want the XP. Plus I get the feeling most achievements are either trivial but grindy. Or just punishingly hard, where you need to build specifically to hit the achievement, probably after a lot of failed tries too. Maybe I will appreciate them more in FitB when I am less desperate for XP.

Saw this notion questioned in another thread. I am a recently returned player and I was told that it is.

But doing some back of the envelope math I estimate that in the past you got 50g per quest (I last played just before Frozen Throne) if you used them properly, so for 120 days of play a typical expansion would allow you would make 6000g. But ofc you also had 10g per 3 wins, I am going to assume the player is moderately active and so has 9 wins a day, 30g a day, giving them 3600g more for a total of 9600g estimate for the old system.

Now IIRC Reward Track is 5650g or something like that. And you should get there (in my experience) after two months of the kind of play discussed for this hypothetical player. Leaving you another two months to get that bonus gold. Since the total XP of the reward track is 155k and it took two months it means you will earn about as much in the next two months. Since it is roughly 50g for 1,5k XP this player will earn above 5000 gold in that time, lets say 5350g to make the calculation cleaner later. Putting them at a 11000g total. You do get a few cards and cardpacks along the way however and some other material perks, I estimate these at 2200g for the more generous FitB track, the current one would be about half that, maybe a bit more. Giving a final estimate for the new system of 13200g of which 11000g is pure flexible gold which I imagine most players prefer.

So counting all things it seems the new system does win.

Final consideration is players who play less or more than this proposed "midrange" player. Those who play less would do better under the new system since the reward track moves quickly in the first half. A player who barely finishes all their quests would probably still do better under the new track system but it would be closer. Players who play a lot don't win as much but still win I think. This is because the rate of return on time played after lvl 50 is poor and flat out caps out at lvl 350. Meanwhile those same high investment players could be hitting their 100g from 3win cap every day. I feel I roughly get 100xp from a ranked win, but not all are wins nor are all games ranked so the average is probably closer to 70, counting a win-loss pair I will estimate 120XP for two games, again a win and a loss. Since to get 100g from 3wins is 30 wins, again we will say you lose one game for each win, 60 games, 30 pairs. So an equivalent amount of play in reward  track times is 3600XP lets say that's 120g a day equivalent. Now not all XP will be exchanged at the atrocious post lvl 50 exchange rate but most will so fair math I'd say. If you want you can add 10g to that estimate to account for this.

Final conclusion seems everybody wins under the new system.

What do you guys think? What have others calculated?

EDIT: I was under the erroneous belief that post 50 levels are also 5k XP but they are 1,3-1,5k XP. I did not hit 50 this track so I didn't know. This led to me severely lowball how much gold will be earned in the later half of the reward track. With this correction I estimate an average player to earn 11k pure gold and hit something like level 160 which seems to be the case for most posting in this thread. Given all this it seems there is no debate, reward track is superior for all.

Quote from PayToWinGame >>

is there any different about classic ranked ladder rewards? we are still getting one chest per month right??

 Correct, you will get one chest based on your best rank from Classic, Wild or Standard ladder.

I also think they should reuse old keywords where they fit. The words are explained on each card, the new players need to learn somewere and this is the best way. They will run into such cards in Brawls and elsewhere inevitably.

However they also need to stop printing overly specific keywords, I think the prime example here is Adapt which is just so heavily tied to the Un'goro aesthetic but even so I can see it being reused sometimes for some beasts without too much dissonance.

Quote from Tykaine_J >>

Quote from Neko_Tamo >>

That said I think people saying this will be a dead mode in a month are also exaggerating.

People tend to over-dramatize new modes in games like this, as they are afraid their chosen mode will leak players.

I don't think anyone is expecting Classic to keep a playerbase as large as Standard or Battlegrounds, but as long as there is a community that enjoys it, let it be.

The work has been done, Blizzard does not need to do anything else to maintain it.

 You could be right. I think people are just too pessimistic coupled with wanting to jump on the "duels are a failure" bandwagon.

That said I think Classic will have more appeal than people think, being less RNG, lower power level, slower, more tactical etc appeals to people beyond mere nostalgia. Now being forever static will probably cancel that out for most people. However if Classic were to receive mini-sets of its own that follow this spirit of lower power, less RNG, etc I could see this Mode absolutely thriving. I suppose time will tell ;)

I think the prebuild part will always be a sore point, players without old collections will feel outmatched and probably avoid the mode. I mean we have here Standard only players noping out in this very thread. I wonder how disadvantaged a Standard only player is % wise if that is even calculable. And ofc even big Standard collections are not a rule among most F2Ps. They should have made your whole deck built from card buckets or pre-built by Blizzard, or at least from the same pool available to all. Then you would see a lot more players.