Hearthpwn

Battletag: NOTNobody#1553
Region: Asia
Trade Only?: Yes, you first

Edit: Done with zags

Done!

Battletag: NOTNobody#1553

Region: Asia

Trade only: You go first.

Edit: Please check the rule on the first page! It has always been for the poster to prove quest first but the one responding go first. It has always been like this.

Give it attack restriction same as Icehowl. Making it just a huge body for board control.

Shaman portrait...

Quote from ambershee >>

Quote from NOTNobody>

Yea, you got the idea. Except the minions summon on opponent's board should ideally be 0 attack. Most of it are utility tokens, some of it can be annoying like Dreadsteed with effects that damages your opponent for 1 damage at the end of his turn.

No, they should always have an attack value, or otherwise something like taunt. If they don't, they are simply too hard to remove. Paladin as an example could only remove it with Hammer of Wrath at present in standard.

Quote from Schattenlord92 >>

Hearthstone rewards the result, not the way you get there. The result is loss or win. By the way that system is quite easy to abuse.

I'm control warrior with 40+ effective health and I have lethal in hand? Ah no better pass a turn and get 3 more gold.

Quote from DMaster2 >>

Quote from Blue_Banana_whotookthisname >>

Cure the problem, not the symptoms. The roots of that problem lie within the ranked system, not aggro.

 And how would you fix the ladder? Aggro is naturally overplayed due to the quick games it provides, i don't see any way this can change. Aggro decks should actually be weak just to compensate this factor. It has been proved that people prefer to play a 55% winrate aggro deck rather than a 65% control/fatigue deck to climb the ladder. I don't see any way to solve this issue other than making aggro bad enough that it doesn't go past 50% winrate. And even then i bet many people would still pick an aggro deck to climb up.

There are much more strategy that goes with a seemingly simple mechanics. I went consecutive 27 wins on NA server, 13 consecutive wins on EU server, 8 consecutive wins on Asia server.

For those having trouble winning, perhaps it would help to know that:

Rook counters Knight. Knight counters Bishop. Bishop counters Rook. Queen trumps all. 

Those are key pieces and you have to know their uses.

Rook is basically a better Pawn. They will eventually win over Pawn, and they might bait out opponent's Knight. It is a counter to Knight because it takes 1 Pawn + 1 Rook to take out a Knight and if opponent run their own Knight into your Rook, then all it takes is just 1 Pawn to take that damaged Knight out. However, Knight requires 2 Pawns or a Rook to kill enemy's Rook. It is also at the expense of it's own 2 Hp. Thus Rook actually threatens Knight even on opponent's turn.

A lot of the times, I see people using Knight to take on Rook. It seems justifiable, but it isn't actually a winning play simply because your Knight will easily gets traded by Pawn next turn. The only time Knight should take on Rook is when you have a Bishop on your board ready to heal your damaged Knight back up, or you have overwhelming board advantage that opponent can't get to your Knight next turn.

Rook is just a bait for some players to waste their Knight on. When opponent Rook is only damaging Pawns, you lose by sending your Knight to "protect" your Pawns and kill off their Rook. That is the trap as Knight (4 mana) is of higher value than Rook (3 mana). Knight threatens Queen. Knight can easily assist in killing Bishop. You should not waste Knight just to kill Rook (just a stronger Pawn).

Knight should be use as a removal and you should use it to kill Bishop or Queen, not opponent's Knight (even though it seems fair, but if you're only playing your Knight as a response to enemy's Knight that already done something, then you're losing value and tempo). You should also not use it to remove Rook as mentioned above, and last but not least, Knight shouldn't be play on curve just to kill Pawns. That is the worse play and the reason why you seems to keep losing your board.

Bishop is there for defensive play. A lot of the times, you want to utilize those double attacks. But that isn't always the case if you can have a turn to heal your pieces. It is a counter to Rook because it negates the damage that Rook dealt last turn.

I have a game where both our board was full. 

My board was 5 Pawns and 2 Bishops. Opponent's board was 2 Rooks, 1 Bishop, 4 Pawns. Most people might actually think opponent is ahead as his overall chess pieces are of higher value than mine. However, Bishops shines in defensive (no dual attack) play and is a direct counter to Rook. If you work out the math, I have a maximum heal of 8 and maximum damage of 5 per turn. Opponent have a maximum heal of 4 and a maximum of 8 damage per turn.

For that game, I am the only one that can break that stalemate, because I can kill his Bishop if I wanted to, or if I do want to kill other pieces, I can do it eventually since I am churning out damage while opponent's damage gets negated.

While most of the time, you want to use Bishop to heal other key pieces, but if you're not having the best of draw, then just adapt. Dual attack is good but Bishop doesn't have to require dual attack to benefit. So if you can force/trap your opponent into playing card only to lose their dual attack, then you've successfully utilize Bishop's main strategy of defensive play.

Likewise, if you have the best of draw, you don't just throw them on curve because you can. Chances are, you lose value by presenting your threats without establishing any control over the board. What good is a Knight that can only kill Pawns? What good is a Queen if it only kills 2 Pawns and die easily to enemy's Queen/Knight + Rook/Pawns?

Overall, I just want to say this is probably one of the better Brawl, but perhaps most people don't pay much attention to Brawl simply because of the little incentives to be good at it... If only Brawl have a winning Gold streak... Then perhaps people might actually be interested in some of the Brawl and learn to be good at it for the daily 100g.

Didn't know so many people hate this brawl. I find it one of the better one out there. Why hate something simply because you don't understand it?

Anyway, for those having some trouble, just know that:

Rook counters Knight

Knight counters Bishop

Bishop counters Rook

Queen trumps all

Pawn gives number and position advantage

Sometimes, you don't even need to play your chess piece on curve if it would make your minion loses their dual attack ability.

Quote from sparkisstuffEU >>

Those sound like some interesting ideas. They just don't sound like Hearthstone ideas. The game is build around the idea of simplicity and clarity. The way I see it, while some of your ideas might be interesting for a control-heavy game and one that requires more strategic thinking, I just don't see how it'd work in Hearthstone.

Though, having said that, kudos for the effort. That's a ton of detail you have there :)

Quote from ambershee >>

It's not that bad. I could easily see something like a reverse warleader; e.g 2 mana 1/1 that goes to the enemy side of the board and gives all 'friendly' minions -1 attack. A tool like that could really suck a lot of early game out of aggro decks.

Quote from Schukala >>

I think you have interesting ideas, but as you put them, they would change the game too much (and not necessarily for the best). Quick review:

1. 50 health is way too much, but I have already seen fan cards that increase the max health for both heroes at the start of the game and I love the idea. 5 or 10 (if Legendary) health max, though. Basically it's a free heal for 5 or 10, not game-breaking like your suggestion, but a bit more time for control to stabilize.

2. I may be wrong, but I think this change would actually help aggro. Nearly all their cards are playable early, whereas control would often sit on more unplayable cards. Having answers ready woudn't help that much if there are twice as many questions on the board ;) However, it's again a great idea for a Legendary card that would say something like 'at the start of the game, draw x additional cards'.

3. Nah. I don't want to play against 4 Mana Wyrms. It could also lead to uncontrollable situations (what could you do with 4 Sorcerer's Apprentices?)

4. Waaaay too complicated. Although it could be fun in Adventures fights (reminds me a bit of Netherspite) or maybe Tavern Brawls.

5 to 8. It's 4 parts of a same point, actually. It could be a good idea to shut down spaces for your opponent, but I like the 'summon minions for them route' better than the 'destroy the spot'. More elegant because it's already part of Hearthstone identity. I'm not sure I like the penalties generated by the minions you'd summon for your opponent, though. Can lead to very frustrating games, which is not my idea of fun.

Thanks for sharing anyway, hope Blizz will take the best and leave the rest ;)

1. Thanks for your feedback. I think it's fair enough to think 50 Hp is too much boost from the current 30 Hp. However, I believe the limitation Control player have is they do not always have the right answer or multiple answers for several turns. Mid Range player will outvalue Aggro if they stabilize on around turn 4 or 5. Combo players requires the stars to align with insane amount of card draw to get to their win conditions, if they do get it, they win but are simply too slow vs Aggro. Even a 20 Hp boost is merely a 2 turn clock making Aggro usual lethal turn at turn 7 (when unanswered) become at turn 9 (when unanswered).
2. Not necessary so. With more cards available, it means the Control, Combo, Mid Range player can now keep multiple answers during mulligan stage against different possible threats early game. Knowing you have an AoE on turn 4 means you can risk your turn 3 drawing rather than to spend your turn 3 using your resources to remove a single target. Whereas Aggro players can have multiple 1 drop, 2 drop and 3 drop on hand, but they don't have the mana to play them all. It only allows them to not run out of steam immediately after a board clear.
3. You know the 4x Sorcerer Apprentice into infinite Fireball with Archmage Antonaidas is actually the victory condition I hope Combo players would get. I got that idea from the recent Tavern Brawl with Top 3. 1 of the Mage deck was Sorcerer Apprentice, Arcane Intellect, Flaming Torch. To set up that win condition, you need to reach turn 6 to play 3x Sorcerer Apprentice into Torches into Arcane Intellect and hope you manage to draw all the 6 damage torches and not Sorcerer Apprentice during your Combo turn. To set that up, you need to make sure your opponent doesn't kill you first. It seems broken but it really isn't even if you do have players attempting to pull it off with a deck full of Sorcerer Apprentice into all the damage spells. You might not draw all those combo pieces.
4. The idea is simple. Imagine playing Pit Snake in Charge aura to remove a high value target. Play Ancient Watcher on Taunt to force trades early game. I can have Venture Co Mercenary on Silenced to become a power creep. I can play Sunwalker on Untargettable to definitely stall for a turn. Totem Golem on Divine Shield to trade efficiently. Gadgetzen on Stealth to use it again next turn. All the 7 positions each represent a buff with 1 of it being a wild effect. Each of them only grant 1 effect to the first minion being place on that position. Utility minions can become much more useful. Aggressive minions can be protected from removal early. The Aura mechanics simply grant a buff to your minion when place on that position. It can be use once only.

5 to 8 are indeed the same point attempting to describe the Occupy mechanics which does go along with the Aura mechanics that was in point 4. The idea is to have some new strategy where the victory condition isn't neccesary to bring opponent HP down to 0. I attempted to play with A.I before with a deck that aims to fill his hand with Bananas and Spare Parts. Now with the Occupy mechanics, the victory condition could be to fill your opponent's board with your tokens. Thus making their minion card unusable, but it takes time and luck to even set up that victory condition. It's also extremely weak to Mage, Warlock, Warrior.

Quote from ambershee >>

Quote from Schukala >>

 

5 to 8. It's 4 parts of a same point, actually. It could be a good idea to shut down spaces for your opponent, but I like the 'summon minions for them route' better than the 'destroy the spot'. More elegant because it's already part of Hearthstone identity. I'm not sure I like the penalties generated by the minions you'd summon for your opponent, though. Can lead to very frustrating games, which is not my idea of fun.

Thanks for sharing anyway, hope Blizz will take the best and leave the rest ;)

Not necessarily any worse than mill decks that fill your hand with crap and burn your decent cards, hehe. The trick I think, is to make sure they can be destroyed by either giving them taunt and / or an attack value. That way they either have to have the entire deck built around them, or otherwise will get traded away / into and void the effect. Another example could be something like a 2 mana 2/2 deathrattle on your opponents side of the board that heals you for 5.

Quote from gagan_dugan >>

With all due respect, I think most of those suggestion are pretty bad. The exception being new gameplay mechanics, which could be awesome in general, and potentially 1-2 extra cards in our starting hand. Potentially being a key word here, because you might be actually making aggro extremely strong (right now, almost no one is playing true aggro anymore, which is not ideal - but I am certainly not going to complain much about it). Other than that.... no bueno. With some of those ideas you'd make fatigue Warrior unkillable.

Quote from Statusphere >>

Increase player HP to 40.  50 would be too much.

Quote from ambershee >>

The only change I could get behind is an increase in hand size. I could also get behind putting minions on your opponent's side of the board for special effects and general space wasting, but not necessarily as a named mechanic.

The positives behind that:
A) It does give control orientated decks more options.
B) Aggro decks also get more options, but due to the nature of their construction, they don't really care.
C) Hand based effects become more prominent; cards like Goblin Sapper and Midnight Drake and decks that use it may become more viable.

The negatives:
A) Hyper-aggressive face decks will run out of steam later than they previously would.
B) You reach fatigue more quickly.

Let me blow off some steam first before I get onto my suggestions.

So after a break from Hearthstone, I return only to find the state of the game pretty disappointing right now. With my old collection only fit for Wild, doing terribly on ladder for Standard. I've come to realize the direction of the game is not so much about customer retention but on acquiring new customer.

I have miss out on WOTOG expansion (13 packs missing for me) and Kharazan adventure (got to save up gold again) during my break. The Wild and Standard format for ladder is a monetization method and I am perfectly fine with it. However, for a returning player, I do feel a little shortchange. I am probably not the biggest spender and definitely not an above average player. Just a casual player that don't mind crafting bad legendary (had I know those legendary will be cycled out, I wouldn't waste my dusts) just to test out certain fun mechanics of the game.

So now after returning, I notice the game play is still stagnant. Everybody is still gonna complain about aggro and I can totally understand. It's not so much about making Hearthstone P2W, or about giving F2P player a fighting chance (hence aggro playstyle fits F2P). It's simply a matter of not being able to play those cards you get when the game always end before you even draw the card and manage to play it (winning is a bonus).

Thus I am proposing a few changes and do hope the developers may take notice and probably implement some of it.

1. Boost player HP to 50. We need to know that ladder and arena are 2 different aspects altogether. Just because on arena, minion trading takes priority doesn't mean the ladder follows that same principles. On ladder, players deck are much more refined and 30 HP is simply not enough. 30 HP = Just 10 instances of attack from a single 3-attack minion. With spells to accelerate those instances of attack from 10 to just 5? Quickshot, Kill Command, Eaglehorn Bow, Ping, Rockbitter, Lava Burst, Frostbolt, Fireball. They are all extremely versatile to either use as a removal to keep your minions alive for more instances of attack or simply put opponent low enough to kill off. It's a lot easier for aggro players to draw their minions than it is for defending player to draw the right Removal / Taunt / Heal.
2. Double our starting handsize. At least give Control, Combo, Midrange players the option to actually plan ahead. This is much better than simply having only 3 cards to mulligan for while Aggro players have all the advantage of being able to vomit out their hand relatively easily.
3. Make Legendary only a 1 of, Epic a 2 of maximum, Rare a 3 of maximum, Common and Class specific a 4 of maximum in the deck. I am uncertain how this is going to change the game, but I do believe it would make for a wider variety of deck out there. Some would prefer to include 4 of Common and Class specific cards that are individually strong and might be predicably reliable. While others are hard to play against with all kinds of cards being stuff in.
4. Introduce new mechanics to the game. We are able to play 7 minions maximum on the board. What if the first minion to be play on each numbered position would gain an effect? We can simply term this as an Aura. For example; Position 1 = Charge (attack minions only). Position 2 = Taunt. Position 3 = Divine Shield. Position = Untargettable. Position 4 = Stealth. Position 5 = Silenced (can be utilized as a buff). Position 6 = Spell Damage. Position 7 = Random Buff or Debuff (freezed, transform, windfury, overload, enrage). It can be randomized at the beginning of each match.
5. Another new mechanics could be Occupy mechanics. So far, only Leeroy Jenkins, Hungry Dragon, The Beast, Deathlord and Ancestral Call that summons minion for your opponent. What if there is a playstyle that would limit the number of minions your opponent can play? A playstyle (in conjunction with the Aura) to steal aura and Occupy a space on your opponent's board.
6. There is the Secret mechanics and it's limited only to 3 classes (Mage, Hunter, Paladin). There's the Weapon mechanics that's use in 6 classes (Warrior, Paladin, Hunter, Rogue, Shaman and even Warlock). Perhaps the Occupy mechanics is to give Priest & Druid player a class specific mechanics? Perhaps even Rogue can have it since the Combo mechanics is not as good and their Weapons now is below average with Blade Flury nerf. While Druid player did have the Choose One mechanics which was relatively strong but made stronger now with .
7. I do feel like the potential of summoning minions that have 0 attack and 3 health on your opponent board with passive that either heals you for 2, or decrease adjacent minions attack by 1, or draw a card when killed, or deal 1 damage to adjacent minions could open up newer strategy that doesn't revolve only killing your opponent. I love alternative winning strategy such as Mill / Fatigue decks that either aggressively mill cards or defensively remove threats consistently until opponent run out of threats. If Priest can have a more pacifist approach of simply outhealing the damages their opponent dishes out per turn. If enough minions occupy opponent's board, so that the opponent would not be able to play any more minions and hence reaching a win without killing?
8. In the same aspects, Rogue can summon minions on opponent's board that increase the cost of playing minions, cost of playing spells, minion that deal it's attack to opponent's face at the beginning of opponent's turn, return a minion to opponent's hand when killed, opponent draw a card when killed etc... These fits the playstyle of Rogue player to have tempo or to aggressively mill.

Simply put, those are burn spells without even taking into account aggro players will be playing minions. With the increasing stickiness (deathrattle) of minions since Naxx and GvG, along with the possibility of flooding the board (Murloc Knight, Muster For Battle, Tuskarr Totemic, Living Roots, Dreadsteed), those minions will be doing damage. Those burn spells are there to get through the limited answers a Control player have against Aggro.

Taunt is not that difficult to get through since they can be silenced, killed off with spells or minions, or simply end the game with your reach/burn... In the first 4 turns, it's already over if you don't draw your answer as the Control player. And even if you draw your answer, it might not be enough since you're stuck with only 2 board wipes most of the time and insufficient heals.

I've explain how heals aren't that efficient because you need to clear the board first before you heal in order to heal efficiently. Otherwise, 8 points of heal is easily negated by what's on your opponent's board. Tournament Medic/Antique Healbots are great only if you can clear the board first.

Unlike in Arena, we're limited to how many board wipes we can have. For most classes, it's limited to 2 unless you're building a very specific deck such as Freeze Mage. I've personally tried building a Warlock that focus more on board clear with 2x Shadowflame, 1x Demonwrath, 1x Explosive Sheep, 1x Twisting Nether, 1x Deathwing, 1x Hellfire, 1x Doomsayer, and no matter how many times I can clear the board, it won't be enough. Although when I build that deck, Patron Warrior was all the rage so it was build to hard counter Patron Warrior but it is weak to most Aggro as they have sticky minions be it Nerubian Egg or Haunted Creeper or minions with Charge (Wolf Rider/Arcane Golem/Southsea Deckhand) or weapons (which also have "Charge"). Board wipe is a damn if you do, damn if you don't solution to Aggro. Patron is slow enough for that deck to shine as most of my minions are 3 attack or more except a specific few which I won't play against Patron.

I've tested Tournament Medic on my Priest deck, just having Tournament Medic isn't going to help, but I've play Maiden of Lake and Defender of Argus to taunt them up. That deck works very well against T7 Hunter but weak to a lot of other Aggro. Holy Nova doesn't kill most of what's on the meta right now as they are at 3 or 4 hp. Auchenai Soulpriest + CoH is awkward when you have 1 piece of it only. Lightbomb on turn 6, it's great against other Control but weak against Aggro (6 turns of taking damage before you can recover?). For Control players, small starting hand is super devastating as the damage done earlier will be tough to recover from. Mulligan phase, you have to decide if you're going to keep your Circle of Healing and hope to draw your Auchenai, or mulligan 1 piece of it away and hope you draw your Zombie Chow.

I strongly advocate to playing on both sides before drawing conclusion. I also advocate trying new decks or building your own to know the struggle for new players. I play on all 3 servers, truth be told it's not difficult to get to rank 5 for a FTP player who have at least unlock Naxx and some wings on BRM playing an aggro deck. All you need is for your opponent to not draw their answer or you know how to trade more favorably. I even manage to get my Priest on EU to rank 4 without Naxx playing with Double Mindblast with Prophet Velen that I got from my free pack earlier.

Instead of coming up with new cards hoping to change the game, I think it's about time to look at the mechanics of Hearthstone at it's core.

A few things that is apparent for most is how unrewarding losing a game is. In other games, you still get rewarded albeit lesser than the winning player. In Hearthstone, you get nothing (experience bar means nothing seriously) for losing a game regardless of how close the game was or how long the match duration is. You literally get zilch from losing.

So most players naturally gravitates to a single direction of playing to win even if it takes the fun away. Thus a flood of aggros swarming ladder, simply because it's cheaper than control and it works to end a match in the shortest amount of time possible. Unlike in other card games, where a Rock-Paper-Scissor situation can be form. Aggro beats Combo, Combo beats Control, Control beats Aggro. In Hearthstone, it has become a point where Aggro beats everything if you don't draw the answer in the first 4 turns.

I have been advocating to an increase in life total, 30 HP is ridiculously small to work with. Looking at the burns available in the game, even without minions, you can already almost kill your opponent.
For Mage, 2x Fireball (12 dmg) + 2x Frost Bolt (6 dmg) are 4 auto include cards that deals 18 damage.
For Rogue, 2x Eviserate (8 dmg) + Blade Flurry (varies) that has been boosted by Spell Damage/Death Poison/Tinker's Sharpsword Oil.
For Hunter, 2x Kill Command (10 dmg most of the time) + 2x Quickshot (6 dmg) + 2x Explosive Trap (4 dmg) + Eaglehorn Bow (6 dmg) = 26 damage.
For Paladin, Ashbringer (15 dmg over 3 turns) + 2x Truesilver Champion (16 dmg over 4 turns) + 2x Consecrate (4 dmg) + 2x Muster For Battle (4 dmg per turn if opponent didn't draw AoE, I won't worry about Ooze or Harrison Jones).
For Druid, 2x Force of Nature (12 dmg on it's own) + 2x Savage Roar (damage increased in multiples of 2) + 2x Swipes (at least 2 damage to face).

These are just burns alone, without counting the minion damage. Every minion can deal damage with the exception of a few but not every minion can heal or have taunt.

It's also time to look at the situation differently for Arena and Ladder. People hate boardwipes in Arena simply because there's no limit to how many your opponent may draft. Thus the need for sticky minions to exist happen to somewhat make Arena less frustrating. Yet sticky minions possesses too much pressure for control players to deal with on Ladder simply because your boardwipes are limited. With only 3 cards to choose from as the player going first, you'll be damned if you get stuck with cards that can't be play. As aggro, you have little of such problem. And if you don't draw one of your few boardwipes in the first 4 turns, you're in lethal range pretty much all the time. Even with the introduction of healbot in GvG and various heal options in TgT, healing only negate portion of damage that has been done on previous turns. If the board shows Knife Juggler + Leper Gnome + Shredder, your 8 points of heal on turn 5 does nothing.

Perhaps, it's time to start looking at a different approach rather than developing cards and hope meta slows down.

People hate Hunter in Constructed because of how easy it is to lose to them when you don't draw an answer in your first few turns. In Arena, Hunter is pretty bad as the game is more about fighting for board control so that you can have constant damage once you seize the board.

Mage excel in this with Flame Cannon trading up... Killing just about any 2 mana cost minion except Spectral Spiders, Nerubian Egg, Ancient Watcher and Lightwell. Frost Bolt killing or at least shutting down a minion for a turn. It's basically Dark Bomb with freeze that is efficient even in the late game. Fire Ball is straight up good for the extra reach to kill your opponent or simply kill off their bigger minions to protect your own. Cone of Cold, Blizzard and Flamestrike controls the board for your own board advancement. Hunters only have Explosive Traps and Explosive Shots for some form of AoE and it's not quite as good as other classes.

Sure, Kill Command is great in constructed with the conditional 5 damage for 3 mana. One could argue that Eviserate is much easier to achieve as it requires a card to be play and not just a specific number of cards as it is with Kill Command. Don't get me wrong, Kill Command in the hand of an aggro class like Hunter is definitely nothing to scoff at, but in Arena, you don't get a chance to become Aggro automatically given the free reign of Mages with their AoEs.