Ok, i get it: blizzard thinks random = fun, but, keeping that in mind, please show me a player, even the most casual one, that thinks it's fun getting your opponent low on life, having board control, and several minions on your side, and then he plays ragnaros and manages to hit you and kill you...You might say that I should have prevented him from bringing me to only 8 hp, ok...
So let's say we both are at 20, my opponent plays ragnaros and kills one of my mionions. A good play, and a lucky one since he could have just damaged me, and then, maybe my minion could have done something useful, maybe even trade with ragnaros 1 for 1, but let's ignore that for now. On my turn, I play ragnaros myself and, out of sheer luck, no skill involved, I manage to kill his. From then on I get such a huge advantage that the game is almost won and that was just PURE LUCK.
Was that fun? No, I really don't think so. I made only two examples, but there are countless, involving also common, cheap minions, like knife juggler, and spells, like lightning storm. They are not fun at all, they don't make the game more casual friendly, in fact I'd bet that casuals get angry as much as pro-players when they lose this way. But that's only part of the problem, because even when you win, the sheer amount of randomness sometimes takes away the pleasure of your victory. You didn't win because you are good, but just because you are lucky.
I know every card game involves a certain amount of luck, but I also feel there's a point where it becomes TOO MUCH LUCK, and hearthstone is getting past that line.
Feel free to disagree, but please keep it civil :)
I disagree, I personally think that luck makes the game more exciting in certain areas.
Most of the time it will still be skill carrying a player to a dominating position where luck can do its final work. There are exceptions to this for sure, but in my experience it is not an often (Keyword) happening that luck alone will throw off the entire balance of the game. When it does it sucks, and can be very frustrating. However I still think the benefits of luck making the game more novel outweighs the negative that may arise from it.
EDIT:
Just for funsies, this is what I mean with one of the absolute bullshit circumstances. XD It REALLY sucks if this happens, but even after watching this I stand by what I said before:
Someone posts a thread topic saying "(X) is ruining the game", then calls for civility. Bad show, that. A personal opinion repackaged as a hyperbolic statement of absolute fact; that's no way to start off a supposedly civil discussion.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you see a post that you find objectionable, report it, it helps keep the forum clean. But be aware people are allowed a lot of latitude.
If you find my posts to be rude, objectionable, or whatever, well, I got tired of writing polite TL; DR (Too Long, Didn't Read) posts at crybaby whiners. So now I just make it short and nasty.
If you find that funny, well and good. If you find that sad, that's even better.
Yup, RNG does make changes to the events of a game, and can determine the outcome. When it is in your favor its amazing, when it is not, then it sucks. It is just that way. hopefully your are on the positive side of chance, but it is all that, chance. It does make it fun, you have to agree RNG does because RNG is involved in every aspect of every card game that is electronically based. If not, everything would be stacked in perfect order and situation and their would be zero variation from that. Yup getting devilsaur when you need critter sucks, but when you need devilsaur and you get it, it rocks and your opponent is pissed. It has to be that way, every one has to be butt hurt from time to time, or the game would be boring as hell.
I enjoy RNG. FTL is one of my favorite games. I've been playing it almost a year straight at this point. It is all about managing RNG. RNG is always a risk and always will be in Hearthstone. You have to take calculated risks. That being said you can minimize your RNG by avoiding cards with RNG effects. If you're going to run Rag then you can't turn around and complain that if he'd just hit the right target you would have won. Sorry you played a card that has a powerful effect because it has RNG. If you want something without RNG you'll notice that the power level goes way down. As it should.
You only drop Ragneros when you don't mind if he hits face or a big minion, you're not dropping it to take out a 1/1 ... so there is 'some' thought to using it. I'd rather be facing ragneros than a ruddy Pyroblast.
I personally think rng within minor plays in the game is fun, like knife juggler, but game determining cards such as rag, should have less luck involved, so the better player is more confident about playing it instead of always have ur heart racing for the 50/50
I agree that a card game will always have rng but I rather leave the rng in the draws and keep them off the actual cards. Rng could make the game a bit more interesting but it always could make competitive plays more frustrating
See when your heart races that's a sign of drama and excitement. Yes it can be as random as a river card in a poker coinflip but that's the point -- those are the most memorable moments.
A single game of hearthstone might be 50% skill or less In a best of 7 though, 50% becomes over 90%. Again the poker analogy, in one hand any player has almost even odds of beating the best poker player in the world. That's why they play dozens and hundreds of hands.
{analysis based on 100% luck = 50% chance for either player (flipping coins) and 0% luck = better player always wins (chess and co aren't exactly 0% but close). So 50% luck gives 25% odds of weaker player winning.}
Ok, i get it: blizzard thinks random = fun, but, keeping that in mind, please show me a player, even the most casual one, that thinks it's fun getting your opponent low on life, having board control, and several minions on your side, and then he plays ragnaros and manages to hit you and kill you...You might say that I should have prevented him from bringing me to only 8 hp, ok...
So let's say we both are at 20, my opponent plays ragnaros and kills one of my mionions. A good play, and a lucky one since he could have just damaged me, and then, maybe my minion could have done something useful, maybe even trade with ragnaros 1 for 1, but let's ignore that for now. On my turn, I play ragnaros myself and, out of sheer luck, no skill involved, I manage to kill his. From then on I get such a huge advantage that the game is almost won and that was just PURE LUCK.
Was that fun? No, I really don't think so.
I made only two examples, but there are countless, involving also common, cheap minions, like knife juggler, and spells, like lightning storm. They are not fun at all, they don't make the game more casual friendly, in fact I'd bet that casuals get angry as much as pro-players when they lose this way. But that's only part of the problem, because even when you win, the sheer amount of randomness sometimes takes away the pleasure of your victory. You didn't win because you are good, but just because you are lucky.
I know every card game involves a certain amount of luck, but I also feel there's a point where it becomes TOO MUCH LUCK, and hearthstone is getting past that line.
Feel free to disagree, but please keep it civil :)
the shuffler sometimes secretly hates you.
I disagree, I personally think that luck makes the game more exciting in certain areas.
Most of the time it will still be skill carrying a player to a dominating position where luck can do its final work. There are exceptions to this for sure, but in my experience it is not an often (Keyword) happening that luck alone will throw off the entire balance of the game. When it does it sucks, and can be very frustrating. However I still think the benefits of luck making the game more novel outweighs the negative that may arise from it.
EDIT:
Just for funsies, this is what I mean with one of the absolute bullshit circumstances. XD It REALLY sucks if this happens, but even after watching this I stand by what I said before:
Kreek's Fast/Control Zoo [GUIDE] [ASIA Server High Ranking Deck, Highest Rank 1 with 3 Stars]
Someone posts a thread topic saying "(X) is ruining the game", then calls for civility. Bad show, that. A personal opinion repackaged as a hyperbolic statement of absolute fact; that's no way to start off a supposedly civil discussion.
If you see a post that you find objectionable, report it, it helps keep the forum clean. But be aware people are allowed a lot of latitude.
If you find my posts to be rude, objectionable, or whatever, well, I got tired of writing polite TL; DR (Too Long, Didn't Read) posts at crybaby whiners. So now I just make it short and nasty.
If you find that funny, well and good. If you find that sad, that's even better.
Yup, RNG does make changes to the events of a game, and can determine the outcome. When it is in your favor its amazing, when it is not, then it sucks. It is just that way. hopefully your are on the positive side of chance, but it is all that, chance.
It does make it fun, you have to agree RNG does because RNG is involved in every aspect of every card game that is electronically based. If not, everything would be stacked in perfect order and situation and their would be zero variation from that. Yup getting devilsaur when you need critter sucks, but when you need devilsaur and you get it, it rocks and your opponent is pissed. It has to be that way, every one has to be butt hurt from time to time, or the game would be boring as hell.
Randomness is part of the fun. Pain is part of the fun too.
Skill is at least partially about reducing the influence of randomness in your outcomes. You can’t remove it though. I wouldn’t want to anyway.
Crybabies ruin the game. If you don't like RNG, I'd recommend staying away from card games in general and HS especially.
RNG is the only reason the OP exists. Eliminate RNG and you were never born.
I enjoy RNG. FTL is one of my favorite games. I've been playing it almost a year straight at this point. It is all about managing RNG. RNG is always a risk and always will be in Hearthstone. You have to take calculated risks. That being said you can minimize your RNG by avoiding cards with RNG effects. If you're going to run Rag then you can't turn around and complain that if he'd just hit the right target you would have won. Sorry you played a card that has a powerful effect because it has RNG. If you want something without RNG you'll notice that the power level goes way down. As it should.
You only drop Ragneros when you don't mind if he hits face or a big minion, you're not dropping it to take out a 1/1 ... so there is 'some' thought to using it. I'd rather be facing ragneros than a ruddy Pyroblast.
I personally think rng within minor plays in the game is fun, like knife juggler, but game determining cards such as rag, should have less luck involved, so the better player is more confident about playing it instead of always have ur heart racing for the 50/50
I agree that a card game will always have rng but I rather leave the rng in the draws and keep them off the actual cards. Rng could make the game a bit more interesting but it always could make competitive plays more frustrating
All card games have RNG, many card games have coin flips, Hearthstone has less RNG cards than many other card games,
Although it is frustrating when your Nat Pagle doesn't draw any cards and the enemys draws one every turn.
But realistically nobody can expect a card game not to be based on luck.
Hearthstone is 99% Luck 1% Skill.
Soulbound Deckbuilding Team Owner
Hearthstone Freelance Writer
See when your heart races that's a sign of drama and excitement. Yes it can be as random as a river card in a poker coinflip but that's the point -- those are the most memorable moments.
Hearthstone is 90% Skill 10% Luck.
A single game of hearthstone might be 50% skill or less In a best of 7 though, 50% becomes over 90%. Again the poker analogy, in one hand any player has almost even odds of beating the best poker player in the world. That's why they play dozens and hundreds of hands.
{analysis based on 100% luck = 50% chance for either player (flipping coins) and 0% luck = better player always wins (chess and co aren't exactly 0% but close). So 50% luck gives 25% odds of weaker player winning.}