So, most of us use the tier list on hsreplay to decide which deck is best right now. Fair enough, as that's based on good data.
However, for some bizarre reason, the hsreplay calculations for the overall winrate of zoolock are WAAAAY off. They have the average winrate at 52% or so, when almost all of the decks are averaging more than 60% winrate, with the most popular deck currently above 65% with more than 70k games played.
And one of zoolock's best matchups is token druid. Just sayin.
Edit: We started this expac with "OMG warrior is the cancer!" Currently we are in the "OMG token druid is the cancer!" I give it a week at most before it's "OMG Zoolock is the cancer!" ... Which actually means the meta is just fine, basically.
the front page of Hs replay is misleading as like you told me yesterday, it's mixing old data with the new. when you actually go in and lok at the stats properly, carpet zoo has the best winrates by a decent margin.
It's not only capitalizing on an advantage Vs. the most popular deck, token druid. it's also doing pretty well across the board as well.
I think it's actually my favourite deck at the moment as well. have always been a sucker for zoo.
and yeah dude. meta is actually really healthy. something strong pops up, it gets countered. nothing has proven too powerful yet.
I'm really happy with the state of the game right now.
totally is right now. it had close to 70% winrate yesterday. you have to go right into HS replay to see the real stats. at a glance things appear one way, but it's not how they actually are when you go in and look at the data.
I was thinking zoo was bottom of tier 2 till yesterday when really it should be top of tier one as it has a much higher winrate across all decks than even token druid at this point.
of course nothing is set in stone yet and it's just a case of decks coming through to counter what is popular and strong
tempo rogue is actually higher than druid as well with a winrate over 60% token druid is around 55/59% now as it;s getting hard countered by warlock.
the next step will be the control meta as zoo is weakest to control warrior. after everyone starts playing carpet zoo and murloc shaman to counter druid, the control decks will come in to mop up the aggro.
"I was thinking zoo was bottom of tier 2 till yesterday when really it should be top of tier one as it has a much higher winrate across all decks than even token druid at this point."
That's because it beats the two most popular decks. Token Druid and has decent chances against most slow Warrior decks. Rogue has no healing in the tempo lists so as soon as you get ahead one minion, you win. Mage is better at board wipes than killing a steady stream of minions. So until Warrior or Paladin becomes aggressive, Zoo should be pretty good on average.
"I was thinking zoo was bottom of tier 2 till yesterday when really it should be top of tier one as it has a much higher winrate across all decks than even token druid at this point."
That's because it beats the two most popular decks. Token Druid and has decent chances against most slow Warrior decks. Rogue has no healing in the tempo lists so as soon as you get ahead one minions, you win. Mage is better at board wipes than killing a steady stream of minions. So until Warrior or Palafin becomes aggressive, Zoo should be pretty good on average.
yeah that's what I was thinking. it does very well against druid so it's cleaning up there, but also seems to be doing well elsewhere as well. once this deck becomes more popular, people will start to counter it.
totally is right now. it had close to 70% winrate yesterday. you have to go right into HS replay to see the real stats. at a glance things appear one way, but it's not how they actually are when you go in and look at the data.
I was thinking zoo was bottom of tier 2 till yesterday when really it should be top of tier one as it has a much higher winrate across all decks than even token druid at this point.
of course nothing is set in stone yet and it's just a case of decks coming through to counter what is popular and strong
tempo rogue is actually higher than druid as well with a winrate over 60% token druid is around 55/59% now as it;s getting hard countered by warlock.
the next step will be the control meta as zoo is weakest to control warrior. after everyone starts playing carpet zoo and murloc shaman to counter druid, the control decks will come in to mop up the aggro.
Its winrate against all warrior decks is abysmal AND it's unfavored against tempo rogue.
I highly doubt it.
but it eats token druid and most people are playing that. seriously go and look at the winrates. most popular deck has a 67% winrate at the minute.
I could be wrong, but it seems to be doing really well. it could just be mostly feeding on druid, but the fact remains it's killing it.
It IS mostly feeding on token druid. And more people play warrior decks (1.8 mil bomb warrior versus 1.5 mil token druid, and that's without control warrior) than token druid.
Yeah, I see that. And yet the deck's winrate is 65%. Logic does not trump hard data. (If you were linking a page that has a detailed list of matchups, I don't have premium access, so I can't see it.)
Edit: I'm interpreting your argument as "but it has x,y,z bad matchups, so it can't be good." Except that it IS good anyways. The data doesn't lie.
Its winrate against all warrior decks is abysmal AND it's unfavored against tempo rogue.
I highly doubt it.
but it eats token druid and most people are playing that. seriously go and look at the winrates. most popular deck has a 67% winrate at the minute.
I could be wrong, but it seems to be doing really well. it could just be mostly feeding on druid, but the fact remains it's killing it.
It IS mostly feeding on token druid. And more people play warrior decks (1.8 mil bomb warrior versus 1.5 mil token druid, and that's without control warrior) than token druid.
maybe, I don't know for sure. I mean I know control warrior is zoo's worst match up, but you're only gonna see them at legend and high rank which I never get to as I don't play enough. so zoo should do just fine in the cheap seats where I am. ha ha. (also if zoo starts to fail I'll just change decks. I will start playing espionage rogue in control meta I think, or my new infinite deck I'm working on)
I forget that my gameplan is different as I don't have to consider all the control decks. you rarely see them bellow rank ten I think.
I think one day I might actually try and get to legend, just to do it once, but really it doesn't interest me that much, I prefer just trying lots of decks and maybe playing about 30 games a week or something like that.
OK so I played a bunch of zoo today because I want to finish golden warlock and its not grea. It’s ok at best. This was rank 3-5. The only real reason to play it is golden Rafraam. Mage, rogue, and warrior all destroy it. It simply doesn’t have any staying power like murloc or druid. Unfortunately warlock did not get the best stuff this time around which is ok because they had their glory for a while.
Its winrate against all warrior decks is abysmal AND it's unfavored against tempo rogue.
I highly doubt it.
but it eats token druid and most people are playing that. seriously go and look at the winrates. most popular deck has a 67% winrate at the minute.
I could be wrong, but it seems to be doing really well. it could just be mostly feeding on druid, but the fact remains it's killing it.
I've only faced 1 token druid in the last 40 something games I've played, and I easily trounced it with a control deck. Not sure where people are seeing this high token druid played, but my friends at all of the different zones (20-15, 15-10, 10-5, 5-legend) haven't been seeing much token druid either.
Its winrate against all warrior decks is abysmal AND it's unfavored against tempo rogue.
I highly doubt it.
but it eats token druid and most people are playing that. seriously go and look at the winrates. most popular deck has a 67% winrate at the minute.
I could be wrong, but it seems to be doing really well. it could just be mostly feeding on druid, but the fact remains it's killing it.
I've only faced 1 token druid in the last 40 something games I've played, and I easily trounced it with a control deck. Not sure where people are seeing this high token druid played, but my friends at all of the different zones (20-15, 15-10, 10-5, 5-legend) haven't been seeing much token druid either.
Yeah, I see that. And yet the deck's winrate is 65%. Logic does not trump hard data. (If you were linking a page that has a detailed list of matchups, I don't have premium access, so I can't see it.)
Edit: I'm interpreting your argument as "but it has x,y,z bad matchups, so it can't be good." Except that it IS good anyways. The data doesn't lie.
My logic is that it's not the best deck (which you claim in your title) when it beats only one of the three most prevalent decks and loses against the other two. Especially when it loses hard against the most popular class, which is warrior.
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So, most of us use the tier list on hsreplay to decide which deck is best right now. Fair enough, as that's based on good data.
However, for some bizarre reason, the hsreplay calculations for the overall winrate of zoolock are WAAAAY off. They have the average winrate at 52% or so, when almost all of the decks are averaging more than 60% winrate, with the most popular deck currently above 65% with more than 70k games played.
And one of zoolock's best matchups is token druid. Just sayin.
Edit: We started this expac with "OMG warrior is the cancer!" Currently we are in the "OMG token druid is the cancer!" I give it a week at most before it's "OMG Zoolock is the cancer!" ... Which actually means the meta is just fine, basically.
Edit #2: Because people seem to think I'm making this up, here's the page with the list of zoolock decks and winrates: https://hsreplay.net/decks/#playerClasses=WARLOCK&gameType=RANKED_STANDARD&archetypes=134
I agree. it's the best right now at least.
the front page of Hs replay is misleading as like you told me yesterday, it's mixing old data with the new. when you actually go in and lok at the stats properly, carpet zoo has the best winrates by a decent margin.
It's not only capitalizing on an advantage Vs. the most popular deck, token druid. it's also doing pretty well across the board as well.
I think it's actually my favourite deck at the moment as well. have always been a sucker for zoo.
and yeah dude. meta is actually really healthy. something strong pops up, it gets countered. nothing has proven too powerful yet.
I'm really happy with the state of the game right now.
It's not.
totally is right now. it had close to 70% winrate yesterday. you have to go right into HS replay to see the real stats. at a glance things appear one way, but it's not how they actually are when you go in and look at the data.
I was thinking zoo was bottom of tier 2 till yesterday when really it should be top of tier one as it has a much higher winrate across all decks than even token druid at this point.
of course nothing is set in stone yet and it's just a case of decks coming through to counter what is popular and strong
tempo rogue is actually higher than druid as well with a winrate over 60% token druid is around 55/59% now as it;s getting hard countered by warlock.
the next step will be the control meta as zoo is weakest to control warrior. after everyone starts playing carpet zoo and murloc shaman to counter druid, the control decks will come in to mop up the aggro.
then the combo decks will surface and so on.
Its winrate against all warrior decks is abysmal AND it's unfavored against tempo rogue.
I highly doubt it.
but it eats token druid and most people are playing that. seriously go and look at the winrates. most popular deck has a 67% winrate at the minute.
I could be wrong, but it seems to be doing really well. it could just be mostly feeding on druid, but the fact remains it's killing it.
Nope.
Release the Kraken!
"I was thinking zoo was bottom of tier 2 till yesterday when really it should be top of tier one as it has a much higher winrate across all decks than even token druid at this point."
That's because it beats the two most popular decks. Token Druid and has decent chances against most slow Warrior decks. Rogue has no healing in the tempo lists so as soon as you get ahead one minion, you win. Mage is better at board wipes than killing a steady stream of minions. So until Warrior or Paladin becomes aggressive, Zoo should be pretty good on average.
This space is intentionally blank.
yeah that's what I was thinking. it does very well against druid so it's cleaning up there, but also seems to be doing well elsewhere as well. once this deck becomes more popular, people will start to counter it.
It's still not.
Have a look down the list here: https://hsreplay.net/decks/#playerClasses=WARLOCK&gameType=RANKED_STANDARD&archetypes=134
I did? Now would you have a look at this? https://hsreplay.net/archetypes/134/zoo-warlock#tab=matchups
It IS mostly feeding on token druid. And more people play warrior decks (1.8 mil bomb warrior versus 1.5 mil token druid, and that's without control warrior) than token druid.
Yeah, I see that. And yet the deck's winrate is 65%. Logic does not trump hard data. (If you were linking a page that has a detailed list of matchups, I don't have premium access, so I can't see it.)
Edit: I'm interpreting your argument as "but it has x,y,z bad matchups, so it can't be good." Except that it IS good anyways. The data doesn't lie.
maybe, I don't know for sure. I mean I know control warrior is zoo's worst match up, but you're only gonna see them at legend and high rank which I never get to as I don't play enough. so zoo should do just fine in the cheap seats where I am. ha ha. (also if zoo starts to fail I'll just change decks. I will start playing espionage rogue in control meta I think, or my new infinite deck I'm working on)
I forget that my gameplan is different as I don't have to consider all the control decks. you rarely see them bellow rank ten I think.
I think one day I might actually try and get to legend, just to do it once, but really it doesn't interest me that much, I prefer just trying lots of decks and maybe playing about 30 games a week or something like that.
everyone is different though, right.
yeah it's only warrior decks and tempo rogue though. they aren't the only decks. also you can't be strong against everything.
it has it's counters, but it's still a very strong deck.
OK so I played a bunch of zoo today because I want to finish golden warlock and its not grea. It’s ok at best. This was rank 3-5. The only real reason to play it is golden Rafraam. Mage, rogue, and warrior all destroy it. It simply doesn’t have any staying power like murloc or druid. Unfortunately warlock did not get the best stuff this time around which is ok because they had their glory for a while.
I've only faced 1 token druid in the last 40 something games I've played, and I easily trounced it with a control deck. Not sure where people are seeing this high token druid played, but my friends at all of the different zones (20-15, 15-10, 10-5, 5-legend) haven't been seeing much token druid either.
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what server you on? I'm an EU player.
My logic is that it's not the best deck (which you claim in your title) when it beats only one of the three most prevalent decks and loses against the other two. Especially when it loses hard against the most popular class, which is warrior.