Silence is fun and prevents too many "I Win" button situations. However, it'd be nice if even the Silence players had some doubt in their mind when they played their Silence effects. A Restore card or a card with a Restore effect would create that dynamic.
Restore would operate to reverse the effect of a Silence. It could be a spell (though might then be limited in the classes that could utilize it) or the battlecry of a particular minion (making the effect more widely available). Some consideration would have to be made as to how Restore worked. I'd favor something akin to the Shaman Reincarnate but without triggering the Deathrattle, if any, of the card. Thus, any effects present prior to the Silence would not be restored similar to the Reincarnate effect. For example, if you play a Shade of Naxxramas and it builds to a 7/7 and is then silenced the Restore effect would only return it to a 2/2 with its +1/+1 gain ability intact. A further question would be should it be given Stealth when Restore is cast upon it? I would say it should if it was silenced as a result of Mass Silence and had been stealthed at the time that spell was cast. However, I'm not certain the HS engine can track such situations to determine how Restore should operate. I could probably go either way on the point. While Reincarnate is more powerful than the Restore I am proposing I'd still favor Restore as a 2 mana cost ability when budgeting for card costs as a battlecry of a minion.
Immune would be a pre-emptive ability that operates similar to a Divine Shield but for Silence. A minion with Immune cast upon it would be immune to the first Silence effect but thereafter the Immune effect would be exhausted and the minion would be vulnerable to further Silence effects. Hand of Protection implies a 1 mana cost for granting Divine Shield. I'd favor a 1-2 mana cost for Immune and again have it as a minion battlecry to make it available across all classes.
I do like the idea of adding new abilities, making the game deeper and a little more complex. But simplicity is something this game prides itself on. The designers have stated that they don't want it to become like magic where there is a large learning curve and it scares people away.
There's merits to both keeping it simple, and adding more complexity. Myself, I would like to see 1-2 new effects. And the 'Immune' idea kinda do like, maybe if it was something like a mages Ice Block instead.
All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible. - T. E. Lawrence
I think the concept of "if it was stealthed before it was silenced, restore stealth, otherwise unstealth" is a bad one. I think it overcomplicates things and makes for a corner case that isn't intuitive. However it works the first time you restore a stealthed minion (i.e. if it regains stealth because it was mass silenced, or if it doesn't regain stealth) most people will assume it always works like that. Better to have a consistent outcome, even if it makes for a slightly weaker effect.
I think the idea in general is a good one, although the effect is so situational I think it would struggle to be a stand alone ability (I think "Restore" as a card in and of itself would struggle to be worth it, as it relies on your opponent playing silence in general and silencing something worth burning that restore card on, and that thing surviving long enough for you to cast your restore.
On the other hand, making restore too cheap (tagging it onto otherwise reasonably efficient creatures like existing cards with healing effects) would overly devalue silence as a mechanic. There is a very fine balance to be struck with the concept between making it attractive enough to be played, but keeping is situational enough that only the people who really need to protect their bomb(s) from silence effects.
When I first started playing, I though it was odd that there was no real way to 'un-silence' a creature. But after having been playing for quite a while... It really makes sense why its like this.
If we had a way to circumvent every counter, there would be nothing to 'play around'. What I mean is that if I can just cancel all the alignments you cause to my board, there's no real reason for you to play it in the first place and people would stop using these cards. As it is now, if your going to play your big minion, you have to worried about a silence, so you play your second best to 'check' first. Which adds so much more complexity than if I could just add some 'counter-silences' to my deck and drop whatever I want.
On the other hand as Angry Chicken stated, it's very situational, having to make space in an already crammed 30 card deck, for something that may or may not get silenced, I don't see many people wanting to use it. Of course the META does change, maybe in this GvG people start running 4-6 silences and that could be very useful.
None the less, its a good idea that could end up being very useful, I just don't see it being currently.
All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible. - T. E. Lawrence
On the other hand, making restore too cheap (tagging it onto otherwise reasonably efficient creatures like existing cards with healing effects) would overly devalue silence as a mechanic. There is a very fine balance to be struck with the concept between making it attractive enough to be played, but keeping is situational enough that only the people who really need to protect their bomb(s) from silence effects.
I should have caveated that if Restore or Immune are implemented as battlecry effects of minions that it should be limited to only a single minion having the ability so that, at max, a player can only use the effect twice in a single game. I agree that if as player could use either effect numerous times in a game that it could degrade gameplay.
Immune is already in the game: The Hunter's Gladiator Longbow gives you immune while attacking and bestial wrath gives a beast +2 attack and immune. Also, Iceblock functions similarly and uses the same mechanic. I don't think it would be a good idea to add this unless the card said: Give Immune to another minion for x turns and it worked just like in bestial wrath.
Immune is already in the game: The Hunter's Gladiator Longbow gives you immune while attacking and bestial wrath gives a beast +2 attack and immune. Also, Iceblock functions similarly and uses the same mechanic. I don't think it would be a good idea to add this unless the card said: Give Immune to another minion for x turns and it worked just like in bestial wrath.
If you read my description of Immune I am describing a different effect. Perhaps I should rename it as "Silence Shield" or something to avoid confusion and reinforce its effect.
Immune is already in the game: The Hunter's Gladiator Longbow gives you immune while attacking and bestial wrath gives a beast +2 attack and immune. Also, Iceblock functions similarly and uses the same mechanic. I don't think it would be a good idea to add this unless the card said: Give Immune to another minion for x turns and it worked just like in bestial wrath.
If you read my description of Immune I am describing a different effect. Perhaps I should rename it as "Silence Shield" or something to avoid confusion and reinforce its effect.
Yes I realize that, and I don't think it should be called immune because there already is an effect called that and it would lead to confusion. Honestly, I don't think we need something called silence shield because there is only two (technically 3 if you include wailing soul) neutral silence cards in hearthstone and bliz said they don't want to add to many since it would ruin the game by providing the answer to everything.
I think silences are fine. There aren't even that many in the game. If you have trouble with silence, you can return the card to your hand with a Brewmaster or something and play it again if you like. This works for most things not named Void Terror.
But personally, I don't know why everyone plays afraid of silence. Most decks only carry around couple. Exceptions to this are fairly rare. So most of the time, your opponent can generally only silence so many things. So chances are you can play more things than can be silenced by them and come out fine. By being afraid to play creatures that are vulnerable to silence, people often unknowingly play into their opponent's hands by limiting the number of things their opponents have to silence. This is why I don't like Chillwind Yeti. It's a minion for players who play afraid of silence.
Yes I realize that, and I don't think it should be called immune because there already is an effect called that and it would lead to confusion. Honestly, I don't think we need something called silence shield because there is only two (technically 3 if you include wailing soul) neutral silence cards in hearthstone and bliz said they don't want to add to many since it would ruin the game by providing the answer to everything.
There are three neutral Silence effect cards in the game thus a deck could have six Silence effects at minimum. Also, they could provide more if they provide counters to it. The less certainty a player has when taking an action the better. Adding counters to Silence can enrich gameplay.
On the other hand, making restore too cheap (tagging it onto otherwise reasonably efficient creatures like existing cards with healing effects) would overly devalue silence as a mechanic. There is a very fine balance to be struck with the concept between making it attractive enough to be played, but keeping is situational enough that only the people who really need to protect their bomb(s) from silence effects.
I should have caveated that if Restore or Immune are implemented as battlecry effects of minions that it should be limited to only a single minion having the ability so that, at max, a player can only use the effect twice in a single game. I agree that if as player could use either effect numerous times in a game that it could degrade gameplay.
we already have such a tool: Bounce. Youthful brewmaster, along with other cards, can pull a card back to the hand, efectively bringing it back to its original form. Yes, that means you need to spend a card THEN repay the mana for the original card, but that's the 'cost' of such a powerful effect. Shadowstep is also a similar feature. I mean, if the entire purpose is to bring the minion back to it's original form then that's exactly what these cards do.
Normally, when I hear about 'unsilance' it' to restore buff effects. I make a minion 20/20. They silence it. They want to be able to just 'poof' and get the 20/20 back. That tends to be why people dislike 'unsilence' ideas as THAT nullifying a counter. Your idea is smaller in scale and, as said, is already in game. Now a minion that, say, auto'reverts' itself every turn is something else that can be added and would be interesting, but it would have a similar matter of 'cost'. The effect is POWERFUL and will require a lot to pay for it.
Immune is simply put: WAYYY too powerful. Make a Big Boy, make it immune. The end. Note that divine shield has workarounds via silence, many classes's hero power, and transforming spells. What would be the workaround for immune? I'd say, perhaps, similar to divine shield: 1 damage removes the effect. Thus if you can hit the target, the immunity goes away and you can silence it again. Thus you can't mindlessly play a 20/20 buffed minion, immune it,then laugh to the bank. Even then, thoug, I wouldn't make it just 1 mana. Immune is far FAR more dangerous than divine shield potentially. Also note that hand of protection is class locked. There's no neutral way to add divine shield easily. Thus asking for a neutral immune that works like hand of protection is even more crazy.
I CAN see a minion that grants silence immunity as an aura. A legendary, sort of like a silence version of KT: All other minions cannot be silenced or transformed. Then just cost it appropriately.
Yes I realize that, and I don't think it should be called immune because there already is an effect called that and it would lead to confusion. Honestly, I don't think we need something called silence shield because there is only two (technically 3 if you include wailing soul) neutral silence cards in hearthstone and bliz said they don't want to add to many since it would ruin the game by providing the answer to everything.
There are three neutral Silence effect cards in the game thus a deck could have six Silence effects at minimum. Also, they could provide more if they provide counters to it. The less certainty a player has when taking an action the better. Adding counters to Silence can enrich gameplay.
There's really more two, Ironbeak Owl and Spellbreaker, as Wailing Soul can only silence your own minions.
we already have such a tool: Bounce. Youthful brewmaster, along with other cards, can pull a card back to the hand, efectively bringing it back to its original form. Yes, that means you need to spend a card THEN repay the mana for the original card, but that's the 'cost' of such a powerful effect. Shadowstep is also a similar feature. I mean, if the entire purpose is to bring the minion back to it's original form then that's exactly what these cards do.
As you've noted yourself, these aren't the same effects I'm describing.
Normally, when I hear about 'unsilance' it' to restore buff effects. I make a minion 20/20. They silence it. They want to be able to just 'poof' and get the 20/20 back. That tends to be why people dislike 'unsilence' ideas as THAT nullifying a counter. Your idea is smaller in scale and, as said, is already in game. Now a minion that, say, auto'reverts' itself every turn is something else that can be added and would be interesting, but it would have a similar matter of 'cost'. The effect is POWERFUL and will require a lot to pay for it.
If you read my original post you'll note I'm fine not returning the Shade to 20/20 but rather to 2/2. I agree the effect you describe is powerful but that's not the effect I proposed. Straw men are annoying.
Immune is simply put: WAYYY too powerful. Make a Big Boy, make it immune. The end. Note that divine shield has workarounds via silence, many classes's hero power, and transforming spells. What would be the workaround for immune? I'd say, perhaps, similar to divine shield: 1 damage removes the effect. Thus if you can hit the target, the immunity goes away and you can silence it again. Thus you can't mindlessly play a 20/20 buffed minion, immune it,then laugh to the bank. Even then, thoug, I wouldn't make it just 1 mana. Immune is far FAR more dangerous than divine shield potentially. Also note that hand of protection is class locked. There's no neutral way to add divine shield easily. Thus asking for a neutral immune that works like hand of protection is even more crazy.
I can play a "big boy" and make it stealthed, I can Divine Shield it, I can counterspell to render some silences unavailable. The workaround for Immune is multiple Silences. The first Silence exhausts the Immune effect and the second Silence achieves the desired result. Its hardly "crazy" or "WAYY too powerful."
I like the idea of resetting a minion as if it was just summoned. It would counter silence, but it wouldn't be so OP.
A Shade of Naxxramas, in this situation, would return to it's stealth mode, without any bonus, just as it was summoned. Also, it wouldn't be that complex IMO.
Regarding immunity: it already exists as a keyword. There are very few cards that can use that, and only in certain conditions. It's meant to be a powerful ability, on the borderline of being OP.
I wish we could have more immunity cards to play with. We already have cards that grant Divine Shield to minions without breaking the game. Immunity could go the same way.
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Silence is fun and prevents too many "I Win" button situations. However, it'd be nice if even the Silence players had some doubt in their mind when they played their Silence effects. A Restore card or a card with a Restore effect would create that dynamic.
Restore would operate to reverse the effect of a Silence. It could be a spell (though might then be limited in the classes that could utilize it) or the battlecry of a particular minion (making the effect more widely available). Some consideration would have to be made as to how Restore worked. I'd favor something akin to the Shaman Reincarnate but without triggering the Deathrattle, if any, of the card. Thus, any effects present prior to the Silence would not be restored similar to the Reincarnate effect. For example, if you play a Shade of Naxxramas and it builds to a 7/7 and is then silenced the Restore effect would only return it to a 2/2 with its +1/+1 gain ability intact. A further question would be should it be given Stealth when Restore is cast upon it? I would say it should if it was silenced as a result of Mass Silence and had been stealthed at the time that spell was cast. However, I'm not certain the HS engine can track such situations to determine how Restore should operate. I could probably go either way on the point. While Reincarnate is more powerful than the Restore I am proposing I'd still favor Restore as a 2 mana cost ability when budgeting for card costs as a battlecry of a minion.
Immune would be a pre-emptive ability that operates similar to a Divine Shield but for Silence. A minion with Immune cast upon it would be immune to the first Silence effect but thereafter the Immune effect would be exhausted and the minion would be vulnerable to further Silence effects. Hand of Protection implies a 1 mana cost for granting Divine Shield. I'd favor a 1-2 mana cost for Immune and again have it as a minion battlecry to make it available across all classes.
I do like the idea of adding new abilities, making the game deeper and a little more complex. But simplicity is something this game prides itself on. The designers have stated that they don't want it to become like magic where there is a large learning curve and it scares people away.
There's merits to both keeping it simple, and adding more complexity. Myself, I would like to see 1-2 new effects. And the 'Immune' idea kinda do like, maybe if it was something like a mages Ice Block instead.
All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible. - T. E. Lawrence
I think the concept of "if it was stealthed before it was silenced, restore stealth, otherwise unstealth" is a bad one. I think it overcomplicates things and makes for a corner case that isn't intuitive. However it works the first time you restore a stealthed minion (i.e. if it regains stealth because it was mass silenced, or if it doesn't regain stealth) most people will assume it always works like that. Better to have a consistent outcome, even if it makes for a slightly weaker effect.
I think the idea in general is a good one, although the effect is so situational I think it would struggle to be a stand alone ability (I think "Restore" as a card in and of itself would struggle to be worth it, as it relies on your opponent playing silence in general and silencing something worth burning that restore card on, and that thing surviving long enough for you to cast your restore.
On the other hand, making restore too cheap (tagging it onto otherwise reasonably efficient creatures like existing cards with healing effects) would overly devalue silence as a mechanic. There is a very fine balance to be struck with the concept between making it attractive enough to be played, but keeping is situational enough that only the people who really need to protect their bomb(s) from silence effects.
When I first started playing, I though it was odd that there was no real way to 'un-silence' a creature. But after having been playing for quite a while... It really makes sense why its like this.
If we had a way to circumvent every counter, there would be nothing to 'play around'. What I mean is that if I can just cancel all the alignments you cause to my board, there's no real reason for you to play it in the first place and people would stop using these cards. As it is now, if your going to play your big minion, you have to worried about a silence, so you play your second best to 'check' first. Which adds so much more complexity than if I could just add some 'counter-silences' to my deck and drop whatever I want.
On the other hand as Angry Chicken stated, it's very situational, having to make space in an already crammed 30 card deck, for something that may or may not get silenced, I don't see many people wanting to use it. Of course the META does change, maybe in this GvG people start running 4-6 silences and that could be very useful.
None the less, its a good idea that could end up being very useful, I just don't see it being currently.
All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible. - T. E. Lawrence
I should have caveated that if Restore or Immune are implemented as battlecry effects of minions that it should be limited to only a single minion having the ability so that, at max, a player can only use the effect twice in a single game. I agree that if as player could use either effect numerous times in a game that it could degrade gameplay.
Immune is already in the game: The Hunter's Gladiator Longbow gives you immune while attacking and bestial wrath gives a beast +2 attack and immune. Also, Iceblock functions similarly and uses the same mechanic. I don't think it would be a good idea to add this unless the card said: Give Immune to another minion for x turns and it worked just like in bestial wrath.
Don't Complain, Use Your Brain!
If you read my description of Immune I am describing a different effect. Perhaps I should rename it as "Silence Shield" or something to avoid confusion and reinforce its effect.
Yes I realize that, and I don't think it should be called immune because there already is an effect called that and it would lead to confusion. Honestly, I don't think we need something called silence shield because there is only two (technically 3 if you include wailing soul) neutral silence cards in hearthstone and bliz said they don't want to add to many since it would ruin the game by providing the answer to everything.
Don't Complain, Use Your Brain!
I think silences are fine. There aren't even that many in the game. If you have trouble with silence, you can return the card to your hand with a Brewmaster or something and play it again if you like. This works for most things not named Void Terror.
But personally, I don't know why everyone plays afraid of silence. Most decks only carry around couple. Exceptions to this are fairly rare. So most of the time, your opponent can generally only silence so many things. So chances are you can play more things than can be silenced by them and come out fine. By being afraid to play creatures that are vulnerable to silence, people often unknowingly play into their opponent's hands by limiting the number of things their opponents have to silence. This is why I don't like Chillwind Yeti. It's a minion for players who play afraid of silence.
There are three neutral Silence effect cards in the game thus a deck could have six Silence effects at minimum. Also, they could provide more if they provide counters to it. The less certainty a player has when taking an action the better. Adding counters to Silence can enrich gameplay.
we already have such a tool: Bounce. Youthful brewmaster, along with other cards, can pull a card back to the hand, efectively bringing it back to its original form. Yes, that means you need to spend a card THEN repay the mana for the original card, but that's the 'cost' of such a powerful effect. Shadowstep is also a similar feature. I mean, if the entire purpose is to bring the minion back to it's original form then that's exactly what these cards do.
Normally, when I hear about 'unsilance' it' to restore buff effects. I make a minion 20/20. They silence it. They want to be able to just 'poof' and get the 20/20 back. That tends to be why people dislike 'unsilence' ideas as THAT nullifying a counter. Your idea is smaller in scale and, as said, is already in game. Now a minion that, say, auto'reverts' itself every turn is something else that can be added and would be interesting, but it would have a similar matter of 'cost'. The effect is POWERFUL and will require a lot to pay for it.
Immune is simply put: WAYYY too powerful. Make a Big Boy, make it immune. The end. Note that divine shield has workarounds via silence, many classes's hero power, and transforming spells. What would be the workaround for immune? I'd say, perhaps, similar to divine shield: 1 damage removes the effect. Thus if you can hit the target, the immunity goes away and you can silence it again. Thus you can't mindlessly play a 20/20 buffed minion, immune it,then laugh to the bank. Even then, thoug, I wouldn't make it just 1 mana. Immune is far FAR more dangerous than divine shield potentially. Also note that hand of protection is class locked. There's no neutral way to add divine shield easily. Thus asking for a neutral immune that works like hand of protection is even more crazy.
I CAN see a minion that grants silence immunity as an aura. A legendary, sort of like a silence version of KT: All other minions cannot be silenced or transformed. Then just cost it appropriately.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
There's really more two, Ironbeak Owl and Spellbreaker, as Wailing Soul can only silence your own minions.
As you've noted yourself, these aren't the same effects I'm describing.
If you read my original post you'll note I'm fine not returning the Shade to 20/20 but rather to 2/2. I agree the effect you describe is powerful but that's not the effect I proposed. Straw men are annoying.
I can play a "big boy" and make it stealthed, I can Divine Shield it, I can counterspell to render some silences unavailable. The workaround for Immune is multiple Silences. The first Silence exhausts the Immune effect and the second Silence achieves the desired result. Its hardly "crazy" or "WAYY too powerful."
Awesome legendary: Battlecry: Give target creature "Immune"
I like the idea of resetting a minion as if it was just summoned. It would counter silence, but it wouldn't be so OP.
A Shade of Naxxramas, in this situation, would return to it's stealth mode, without any bonus, just as it was summoned. Also, it wouldn't be that complex IMO.
Regarding immunity: it already exists as a keyword. There are very few cards that can use that, and only in certain conditions. It's meant to be a powerful ability, on the borderline of being OP.
I wish we could have more immunity cards to play with. We already have cards that grant Divine Shield to minions without breaking the game. Immunity could go the same way.