so I just tried a week long experiment. To preface, I am drawn to HS for the rush it provides from winning in crazy or unique ways. I found I've been getting increasingly salty with more and more losses to the same handful of meta decks and decided to go with the if-you-can't-beat-em -join-em approach for a bit.
I used a combination of zoo, midrange hunter, 2 warrior builds, beast Druid, token Druid, and freeze Mage. I gained 8 ranks in 2 days and continued to climb steadily the rest of the week despite never playing any of these decks prior.
Conclusion: is this actually fun for anyone? Winning is nice but soooooo easy with these tools. Does no one else get anything from the deck building experience? Or are you all content letting someone else do all the thinking and just piloting a mindless robot to legend every month?
Blizzard: Will non-meta builds ever be viable, or must those of us who prefer to actually think and tinker simply accept sub-40% win rates to the same handful of copycats week in and week out? Community: If winning with the same decks everyone else is using is fun for you, more power to ya, and may you continue to find such enjoyment in all facets of your dull existence.
yeah I started at rank 15 but this only gets more and more bland above rank 8 when literally no non-meta decks are seen in any capacity. Skill variation is practily imperceptable up to this point as well.
No, because any viable build will soon be a meta build.
Must those of us who prefer to actually think and tinker simply accept sub-40% win rates?
That depends on how good you are at deckbuilding. AND you'll have to accept that some of the decks you come up with after lots of thinking and tinkering look surprisingly alike some decks that have already been posted ;) By the way, what's the problem with 35...40% winrates with a deck you built yourself and have fun playing with?
What your describing isn't competitive hearthstone and a lot of people have fun deck building if that's what you want to know. This site alone is filled with decks and that's why people go crazy when new cards are first shown.
Life's too short to play ranked with bad or gimmicky decks. If you like that sort of thing, that's what casual is for.
I enjoy finding and building good decks, whether common (dragon paladin, aggro shaman) or uncommon (secret shield pally, barnes secret hunter). My decks usually improve when I implement ideas from pro players and community feedback.
To play ranked, you need a good deck, so you will see a lot of optimized decks with the same tried and true core.
Maybe you will find an undiscovered deck that wins the meta, especially after the release of new cards. But for the most part, the effective decks are known, and you either use them or you don't.
"Competitive" doesn't even start before rank 5. Of course you play something quick to get past all the rabble (like OP). Current high rank/legend meta is fun as hell and very, VERY varied. Just look at some streams.
Yeah look even when I played HS the most ( And by that I mean that I nejoyed the game more and had a lot more time to dedicate to it ) I didn't have enough time to go beyond rank 4 ( At which point I was still ranking up fairly consistently ), so, in this state of the game, I'm never in hell gonna spend 90% of my play time grinding ( 'Cause unless I use an aggro deck, which I don't want to, because, again, I'd basically spend 90% of my time doing something I don't like, it IS a grind ) an awful meta to get to the supposedly "fun as hell and very, VERY varied" high rank meta.
This is a speech that might hold for people who can spend 1-2 hours a day playing Hearthstone and get out of the sh*thole that are the early rank quite early in the month, but for the rest of us, this is a pitiful excuse for a pitiful meta.
In my opinion though, being good doesn't mean that you can copy a deck that a pro player made and use it to climb the ranks. This isn't proving that you are good, it just proves that you can mindlessly play a deck. To truly be good at Hearhtstone, one must know how to make their own deck and work with it, not just take a deck from someone else and climb with it.
In my opinion though, being good doesn't mean that you can copy a deck that a pro player made and use it to climb the ranks. This isn't proving that you are good, it just proves that you can mindlessly play a deck. To truly be good at Hearhtstone, one must know how to make their own deck and work with it, not just take a deck from someone else and climb with it.
Playing and deck building are 2 different things. If you can make a good deck, but can't play it properly - then you are only a good deck builder, but not the player. So which is thing better and more useful and more important? Making a deck or actually playing a deck and winning at the highest percentage?
Why do you think so many people fail while playing pro decks? it's surely not because they suck at deck building, it's because they take bad decisions in-game, when they need to make those.
Deckbuilding is,nt that hard if u know what you wanna play. I have the experience you can suprise yourself and other players if u play something they don,t expect. There is always a way to counter the meta. Grim patron for example is,nt a deck u see that much,but with armorsmith u can counter the agressive decks in combination with patron. Last deck i made without netdecking brought me to rank 4 this month. Maybe u like. it.
Sheesh, there is a whole lot of smirky comments going on here >_>
I would've less of a problem with the meta if it only was a bit broader. The best matches is those when the opponent throws something completely unexpected against you and it works.
I constantly build weird decks, I generally build a deck or two a day, most suck orjust don't outperform anything, but sometimes I find something that could get to legend if you grind but I normally don't cus I get bored, I currently am playing mill-C'thun Rogue and evolve shaman.
And both are doing pretty OK, I could definitely get legend with the evolve shaman, despite the fact that it does not even run doom hammer, flame wreathed, bloodlust, or any burst damage, which are generally shamans strong points.
The Rogue is more marginal it would work in a Meta that was any slower but as it stands it is just barely 45 percent this week.
Non meta decks are viable just not as easy to ladder with
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Just fill your deck with one drops, that is creative deck design, right?
I constantly build weird decks, I generally build a deck or two a day, most suck orjust don't outperform anything, but sometimes I find something that could get to legend if you grind but I normally don't cus I get bored, I currently am playing mill-C'thun Rogue and evolve shaman.
And both are doing pretty OK, I could definitely get legend with the evolve shaman, despite the fact that it does not even run doom hammer, flame wreathed, bloodlust, or any burst damage, which are generally shamans strong points.
The Rogue is more marginal it would work in a Meta that was any slower but as it stands it is just barely 45 percent this week.
Non meta decks are viable just not as easy to ladder with
A c,thun mill roque. Sounds really weird. Do u mind showing your deck?
"Competitive" doesn't even start before rank 5. Of course you play something quick to get past all the rabble (like OP). Current high rank/legend meta is fun as hell and very, VERY varied. Just look at some streams.
Yeah look even when I played HS the most ( And by that I mean that I nejoyed the game more and had a lot more time to dedicate to it ) I didn't have enough time to go beyond rank 4 ( At which point I was still ranking up fairly consistently ), so, in this state of the game, I'm never in hell gonna spend 90% of my play time grinding ( 'Cause unless I use an aggro deck, which I don't want to, because, again, I'd basically spend 90% of my time doing something I don't like, it IS a grind ) an awful meta to get to the supposedly "fun as hell and very, VERY varied" high rank meta.
This is a speech that might hold for people who can spend 1-2 hours a day playing Hearthstone and get out of the sh*thole that are the early rank quite early in the month, but for the rest of us, this is a pitiful excuse for a pitiful meta.
Actually, the point to that statment is that if you aren't actually pushing for at least rank 5 (I'd say beyond that really, at least rank 3 to show that you CAN make leend, even if you don't have the time) then you aren't competitive. You are in my zone: the casual zone. You are playing with casual players and people who THINK they are competitive but can't beat casual players to even get into the race.
It's similar to complaining about the horrible state of competitive football due to backyard football games . If you aren't rank 5 (3 really) you are playing with random Joes at the park, no matter ho wmuch you want to feel otherwise. You can't even GUESS what real competitive play feels like until you've been up there.
As far as competitive vs unique play.. they sort of contradict each other. COMPETITIVE play focuses on seeking out the best plays and the most efficient actions. While people love the thought of the surprise move that outsmarts the majority, those situations are rare since the best players have already looked into those possibilities: those that are considered worthwhile enough to trick people are incorporated and become the meta while the rest are dropped because they aren't even worth it as a surprise move. Are there decks/skills/whatever that the pros miss? of course. But chances are, a person who hasn't even reached the competitive ranks probably hasn't put in enough effort to find such tactics adn, thus, their "unique decks" are probably decks that have already been tried and failed (or tried, succeeded and already sit in tempostorm's list).
Short of it is, Competitive play isn't the place for 'unique decks' since anything unique quickly becomes the decks foloks who complain about such things complain about.
If you are a johnny/spike (a person who loves to win but with STYLE) then you have probably the hardest mindset in a game. Not impossible, but you're going to require the most effort to gai what you want. You benefit the best from such a mindset.. IF you put the effort in. But that means not playing for a few games a day then running to the forums fussing because your needs aren't met automatically. Otherwise, you'll have to alternative between your Spike tendency and winning with decks others who build better have made and your Johnny tendency and making unique decks that don't work as well. Or take the harder, but best, route and learningwhat the pros learned, putting the work the pros do, and becoming the pro you want to be that beats the the rest. They exist and we praise them for what they do. But they had a hard road to get there.
(but children's card game!) that doesn't mean it's easy. Just that you have the best shot at it HERE. It still means it's hard as nails: just that if you don't have a chance of making it here, you haven't a prayer with your mindset in a MUCH harder game like Starcraft, MTG, or professional football (World or American take your pick).
But first, you have to at least do better than this Daily-only casual and proud of it player at ranked before you can even START to talk about what 'competitive hearthstone' looks like.
in my opinion laddering sucks because u have to guess what kind of deck to use, and usually the counters to that deck start showing up when u start playing it, when u try to counter them with another deck, u will find lots of opponents having the deck u initially countered. and then there are the games, when u have 2 wins in a row and need one more for winstreak, and u lose to bullshit rng. I Always feel like i'm playing the wrong deck in the wrong game, unless I get Lucky. to sum up ladder: play a deck, hope u face the right opponent, hope u dont get screwed by rng and just pilot the decks. only in very few games ur skill (or the opponent's) actually matters.
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so I just tried a week long experiment. To preface, I am drawn to HS for the rush it provides from winning in crazy or unique ways. I found I've been getting increasingly salty with more and more losses to the same handful of meta decks and decided to go with the if-you-can't-beat-em -join-em approach for a bit.
I used a combination of zoo, midrange hunter, 2 warrior builds, beast Druid, token Druid, and freeze Mage. I gained 8 ranks in 2 days and continued to climb steadily the rest of the week despite never playing any of these decks prior.
Conclusion: is this actually fun for anyone? Winning is nice but soooooo easy with these tools. Does no one else get anything from the deck building experience? Or are you all content letting someone else do all the thinking and just piloting a mindless robot to legend every month?
Blizzard: Will non-meta builds ever be viable, or must those of us who prefer to actually think and tinker simply accept sub-40% win rates to the same handful of copycats week in and week out? Community: If winning with the same decks everyone else is using is fun for you, more power to ya, and may you continue to find such enjoyment in all facets of your dull existence.
Winning is fun and enjoyable.
Next.
8 ranks from 20 to 12 doesnt mean much. And "competitive" means playing in tournaments FYI.
Sidenote: YOGG made competitive HS even more of a joke. Pls.
Why bother with deck building, when someone smarter than me that knows how to do all the math builds amazing decks already?
Also even when you do build your own deck you will end up with the same decks, cause those are the best cards period.
Besides what seperates the copy paste players from me and other legendary ranks are tech cards based on the current classes you fight on ladder.
And like Phawkkp already said :
Winning is fun and enjoyable.
Next.
Winning is all that matters, I want to be good and win at every game I do in life.
yeah I started at rank 15 but this only gets more and more bland above rank 8 when literally no non-meta decks are seen in any capacity. Skill variation is practily imperceptable up to this point as well.
I am so happy for you guys, I really am. Jealous even! I wish I were so easily entertained. "Next"...
No, because any viable build will soon be a meta build.
That depends on how good you are at deckbuilding. AND you'll have to accept that some of the decks you come up with after lots of thinking and tinkering look surprisingly alike some decks that have already been posted ;) By the way, what's the problem with 35...40% winrates with a deck you built yourself and have fun playing with?
What your describing isn't competitive hearthstone and a lot of people have fun deck building if that's what you want to know. This site alone is filled with decks and that's why people go crazy when new cards are first shown.
Life's too short to play ranked with bad or gimmicky decks. If you like that sort of thing, that's what casual is for.
I enjoy finding and building good decks, whether common (dragon paladin, aggro shaman) or uncommon (secret shield pally, barnes secret hunter). My decks usually improve when I implement ideas from pro players and community feedback.
To play ranked, you need a good deck, so you will see a lot of optimized decks with the same tried and true core.
Maybe you will find an undiscovered deck that wins the meta, especially after the release of new cards. But for the most part, the effective decks are known, and you either use them or you don't.
Scott Allen aka Bluespartan - Student of Hearthstone - Purveyor of Deck Lists
In my opinion though, being good doesn't mean that you can copy a deck that a pro player made and use it to climb the ranks. This isn't proving that you are good, it just proves that you can mindlessly play a deck. To truly be good at Hearhtstone, one must know how to make their own deck and work with it, not just take a deck from someone else and climb with it.
Why do you think so many people fail while playing pro decks? it's surely not because they suck at deck building, it's because they take bad decisions in-game, when they need to make those.
Deckbuilding is,nt that hard if u know what you wanna play. I have the experience you can suprise yourself and other players if u play something they don,t expect. There is always a way to counter the meta. Grim patron for example is,nt a deck u see that much,but with armorsmith u can counter the agressive decks in combination with patron. Last deck i made without netdecking brought me to rank 4 this month. Maybe u like. it.
Http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/621761-n-zoth
Sheesh, there is a whole lot of smirky comments going on here >_>
I would've less of a problem with the meta if it only was a bit broader. The best matches is those when the opponent throws something completely unexpected against you and it works.
Uhu but the best card for that is yogg Saron and then it,s also a joke they say. People like complaining i guess.
I constantly build weird decks, I generally build a deck or two a day, most suck orjust don't outperform anything, but sometimes I find something that could get to legend if you grind but I normally don't cus I get bored, I currently am playing mill-C'thun Rogue and evolve shaman.
And both are doing pretty OK, I could definitely get legend with the evolve shaman, despite the fact that it does not even run doom hammer, flame wreathed, bloodlust, or any burst damage, which are generally shamans strong points.
The Rogue is more marginal it would work in a Meta that was any slower but as it stands it is just barely 45 percent this week.
Non meta decks are viable just not as easy to ladder with
Just fill your deck with one drops, that is creative deck design, right?
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
I play until I start feeling actual disgust at RNG and the universe in general. Then I stop playing for a while.
in my opinion laddering sucks because u have to guess what kind of deck to use, and usually the counters to that deck start showing up when u start playing it, when u try to counter them with another deck, u will find lots of opponents having the deck u initially countered. and then there are the games, when u have 2 wins in a row and need one more for winstreak, and u lose to bullshit rng. I Always feel like i'm playing the wrong deck in the wrong game, unless I get Lucky. to sum up ladder: play a deck, hope u face the right opponent, hope u dont get screwed by rng and just pilot the decks. only in very few games ur skill (or the opponent's) actually matters.