Hearthpwn

It feels like this game has reached a point where skill matters about 1% of the games. If miracle gets all the right cards, it's impossible to win and if not its easy. Even more stupid deck than Zoo.

Quote from modded »

Quote from Breakedlol »

It feels like this game has reached a point where skill matters about 1% of the games. If miracle gets all the right cards, it's impossible to win and if not its easy. Even more stupid deck than Zoo.

Because it doesn't take skill to decide if evicerating a minion over the face is worth it. Or sinister striking w/o malygos. Right.

Sure some decks require more skill than others, but no deck is ever truly brainless.

I still go by the notion that luck favors the prepared, and in Hearthstone luck doesn't mean any where near as much if you don't prepare for it. You may win if you get a 1/10 topdeck Leeroy or what have you, but you may still lose even with that 1/10 Leeroy if you made a decision last turn that means you would've had enough damage, but don't anymore.

Zoo="Brainless" Miracle="Brainless" Handlock="Brainless" Freeze Mage="Brainless " MUST NERF THEM QQ!

Quote from Nuba »

I made a warrior control deck today, pretty awesome deck. even made a deck building guide about it :)

Having a blast I havent had in quite some time playing hearthstone. Maybe just change decks. Warrior is ultra slow but you'll win about 60% of the games vs miracle and always drag them to fatigue, its actually cool to watch them burn 8 cards in 1 turn and dont kill you, then all you have to do is teabag/BM your way to victory the following turn.

PS: its not even winning that is cool, its the torture you cause.

I can confirm this. My warrior control deck has a very good matchup vs. Miracle Rogue. Sadly it loses to everything else.

Quote from Jay_Paladino »

Handlock destroy Miracle, Miracle destroy non-big taunt decks.

How does Handlock destroy Miracle? Maybe I just suck at the game, but they usually just sap my mountain giants or drakes in turns 4 or 5, and when I fall into the ~20 hp range they just leeroy/shadowstep me away. Of course sometimes I beat them depending on what cards me and they draw. But I wouldn't say it's favorable matchup to handlock.

People are right to say that if you nerf Miracle, something else will take its place. But they should still nerf Miracle, and that's because the deck is so god damned anti-fun. That deck is where fun goes to die. It's like trying to play a two-player version of solitaire. You sit there, I'll sit here, and we'll see who can beat Solitaire faster. No thanks. Rather shoot myself in the face. It's ridiculous, and it doesn't belong in a game that should be interactive. As long as whatever takes it's place after the nerf is actually interactive, I'd say the world is a better place for it.

Quote from OrangeBull »

Hellfire/Shadowflame the Gadzgetan and Miracle is done. When I play against Miracle.

And even if he survives and they miracle their Leeroy-Combo together, usually they cant get pass the taunted giants/drakes/watchers. If Leeroy cant kill without being shadow-stepped, they are practically done. Good Miracle players will evade having you below 15 hp before they have lethal so you cant throw out your molten, but that still leaves your mountains/drakes/watchers on the board. I tend to faceless my drake/watcher early, because its incredible tough for them to get rid of them without throwing out too many cards. It´s a tough tug-of-war, but you will get the jizz out of it after a while.

I run 2 Hellfire and 1 Shadowflame. If Gadgetzan is stealthed, I can only kill it with Thalnos + Hellfire or Shadowflame + Watcher, and I not always have those card combinations.

Keeping my taunted minions on board is sometimes  difficult, maybe I should chang my play strategy against miracle. I used to play 2 sunfury and 1 defender, but I switched to 2 sunfurys and 2 defenders just because of that. I hate the defender 4 mana cost because many times it prevents me from playing the desired minion in the same turn. I also used to play 1 Faceless but switched to 2. In both cases the replacement was for Mortal Coils as they just aren't that useful in may occasions.

Trap Hunter is also very strong vs Miracle. It has a winrate of like 70-80%. Snipe or Deadly Shot ftw.

Rather than stating the obvious that "card games have metas, play it or don't play" it would be good to recognize a key phrase "even off the ladder" from the OP - coupled with no mention of nerfs.  Just repetative matching against predictable OTK decks in a competative system that discourages variety.

It's a simple lack of Hearthstone promoting or even accomodating non-meta gameplay in a rewarding way.  I love making fun, uncommon and unusual decks but I have dismantled pretty much all of them now for one reason - there is no place and no reward for playing them.  "Casual" mode is no better than ranked for avoiding the competative meta.  Arena is slightly better, but it still has a stagnant meta and very competative atmosphere since it's the best way to earn gold if done well.

What Hearthstone needs is a place to play outside of the meta and still get some kind of gold/dust reward so that playing with friends or in a community still allows some degree of progress in expanding a collection.  I think there is room for a happy medium between "play to win" and "play for fun" - it just doesn't exist right now.  Maybe more quests that don't have a win condition, or allow quests to be completed with friends in some manner, or allow friendly games to count toward wins, or any number of other ways things that might incentivize social play without compromising competative play.  Playing with friends is about the only way to truly play casual, but knowing neither of us are expanding our collections when we decide to play agaisnt each other is a real downer.

At the same time though, the most popular MTG highlander format - Commander, also has the most broken OTK combos. Limiting it to only a single card and having a deck size of 100 does not fix combos. the kind of stuff i see in commander blows a game of standard MTG out of the water in broken things lol

The real answer to all of you wanting a different meta and the ability to experiment is simple - an expansion pack thats coming in future that will add 100 at least cards. the meta will change every hour, decks will come and go like crazy. heroes will be top 16 legend viable one moment and then not the next.  We can't have endless experimentation based off a never changing card pool, that simply doesn't work. I guarantee every "clever" deck that you come up with, someone else has tried, multiple times by this point.

The meta we have at the moment is pretty good, theres a few variety of aggro decks (Rogue and Zoo being dominant, Hunter is there too), theres the hunter secrets deck, theres miracle, theres handlock, variations on freeze mage, paladins, druids have a few good decks, shamans have two that are viable even in high legend. Warrior control and reynad warrior are both great, theres a great amount of decks that can be played without one being so dominant its all you face.  I use hearthstone tracker and i get a great mix of all these different heroes. 

The only way to make the game any more varied than it currently is, since the dust has settled for a long time over the initial confusion is to simply have an expansion of cards and a new mechanic or two to play with. We don't need to try to nerf OTK into the ground, Miracle rogue is popular, miracle rogue is top 16 legend capable, it has its good match ups (destroys warrior control) and its bad match ups (Freeze mage and secrets hunter both do extremely well against it). I truly don't see the problem with this, miracle rogue, zoo, none of these complained about decks have such a big win rate that they are broken. 

TL:DR - the game is as varied as it can be with a good showing from every hero as the base game. Meta will shift with expansions naturally and will promote experimentation. Welcome to card games, this one is more balanced than angry forum dwellers give it credit for

So in the end people are playing a competitive game in a competitive game mode and complain about the fact that people play the game competitively? 

Sorry but i dont think you have a valid point. There will always be decks that are better than others. There will always be people that netdeck and its their right to do so.

If its not miracle it will be something else. Wait for the naxx patch and you'll see people will start complaining about a different class.

Additionally miracle is far from unbeatable. And repeating its unbeatable wont make it true.

What do you guys want? A game where card choices are irelevant? Of course decks built with synergy will be better than others. Additionally hearthstone is such a young game. Every card release in LCGs or TCG changes the meta significantly. You will see you get used to it after a while.

Take the ffg LCGs ... the meta changes almost every month and the people that are fast enough to see the new deck possibilites are on the top. Blizzard only needs to speed up the releases to prevent the meta from getting old. And thats whats happening right now. People know whats good and play it. Its been proven over months which decks are competitive and which are not. 

Quote from calli1982 »

What do you guys want? A game where card choices are irelevant? Of course decks built with synergy will be better than others. Additionally hearthstone is such a young game. Every card release in LCGs or TCG changes the meta significantly. You will see you get used to it after a while.

What do I want? A game that doesn't play like competitive Solitaire. That's all.

Your mistake is to think we all hate Miracle because it wins games.

Quote from lolomfgbbq »

This is a problem. Most of you just say "accept the meta, and if you don't then play arena". It's not a solution.. The problem tho isn't that ppl copy decks, the problem is how zoo and miracle works atm. Miracle is just too good.

Too good you say..? Miracle has been in the game since beta and nobody has complained about it this much until now... Miracle was a lot stronger before Vancleef was nerfed.. The old strategy with Miracle used to involve playing a lot of cards and then throwing down a gigantic van cleef for the auto win next turn since it would stay stealthed until you attacked with it and it could OTK your opponent when buffed properly...

This is just pathetic.. Instead of finding a way to counter said decks you people say they're too good and whine about them until they're nerfed.. The UtH nerf was justified since it was a change that was sort of thrown in there when the  game was the most balanced and it ended up throwing off the whole meta but now people are complaining about decks that already existed since beta and HAVE been nerfed before. What will it take for you to actually enjoy the game..? 

You're essentially doing this: "Wahhh I play Paper so nerf Scissors because it's too OP"

Miracle rogue gets ran over by: Rush hunter, Freeze Mage, Handlock, Double Combo/Ramp Druid, Control Warrior.

Why don't you go play Freeze mage since it counters Miracle Rogue? That way you can be back on the forums in a week with another thread titled "Control Warrior/Hunter changes"; where you complain  about "warriors make you run out of burn" or how "flare is too op."

The nerdrage here is on another level, great stuff. I play control warrior and handlock, and none of them are any counter to miracle. And why was uth nerf justified and not gadgetzan nerf? Because you play miracle? :)

Why is everyone bitching about miracle Rogue lately? First off, they've been around since the beginning. I've gotten quite used to them, and I've even played as a miracle Rogue quite often. They really aren't as OP as everyone makes them seem. Sure they sometimes get bullshit hands and they OTK you turn 6, but that says a lot about how you were playing yourself. If you don't pressure Zoolocks enough they can easily kill you turn 5.. Many decks play 50/50 against miracle Rogues, and if you know how to play against them, you can really up that ratio quite a bit. The key is steady tempo. For this: Ramp Druid eats Miracle, Fast Druid shits on them, Hunter always has a chance and every Mage build has a chance. My current Mage build hasn't lost once. It's hilarious to counterspell their combo cards and force them to Leeroy into your vaporize. Give it a try if you really are that sick of them..

It's a combo deck, yes they are annoying to play against but they exist and WILL exist.And the "MIRACLE IS OP CUZ IT WINS GAMES" is the stupidest reason to nerf a deck ever,play handlock or freeze mage they are consistent and have a really good matchup against miracle.

Quote from lolomfgbbq »

The nerdrage here is on another level, great stuff. I play control warrior and handlock, and none of them are any counter to miracle. And why was uth nerf justified and not gadgetzan nerf? Because you play miracle? :)

Uh yeah they are...? Control warrior can actually armor up enough to fatigue the miracle rogue out and handlock has enough taunts to stop a Miracle Rogue from ever getting their combo out... If you're having a hard time beating miracle as a hand lock or control warrior then you're just terrible at the game, plain and simple. The UtH nerf was justified because hunter went from being the worst deck into the game to top tier from that ONE change... The entire deck synergy of hunter was focused around that one card versus the auctioneer where, while it's nice that if you draw it, it's not the end of the world if you don't. Miracle Rogue has always been in the game... The nerf to UtH didn't affect the matchup between rush hunter and miracle rogue whatsoever so you have no clue what you're talking about... How am I nerdraging? You're the one whining about miracle rogue..