Seriously, I want to understand the way this people think. For example, why they believe (or pretend to believe) that Ben Brode didn't knew a deck like Secret Paladin would be too strong (thanks to Mysterious Challenger) and Lock and Load not part of the meta, when testing those cards is a child's game?. Seriously, almost everyone realised Secret Paladin was insane after just some games, why it would have been different for Team 5, who are the designers of this games (wich has been a great success since the begining)? Yeah they said they weren't aware of that, but they usually lie in our faces (check most Ben Brode videos on Youtube for that :P), and, in the end, their main purpose is to make money.
But why people love to imply Team 5 don't know nothing about this game (even the most basic things)?... that doesn't make any sense. This game is not rocket science, and building and testing a deck like Secret Paladin neither. So, are this people only haters? Why they spam this forum with all their hate?... or are they just totally naive? I want to know...
The purpose of this thread is mostly for those people who act this way to share their way of reasoning and intentions, I don't want to start a fight or anything, I'm just curious.
"Not rocket science" - designed a lot of games have you? The truth is that balance in complex games is far more difficult to solve in practical terms than nozzle turbulence; rough solutions and over-engineering obviate the latter problem and allow you to avoid the vicious Navier–Stokes equations, but no comparable rough solutions are available for game balance. Brode's bosses sin is not to really care how tough the problem is, let alone acknowledge that, 'cause it's the users problem.
"Not rocket science" - designed a lot of games have you? The truth is that balance in complex games is far more difficult to solve in practical terms than nozzle turbulence; rough solutions and over-engineering obviate the latter problem and allow you to avoid the vicious Navier–Stokes equations, but no comparable rough solutions are available for game balance. Brode's bosses sin is not to really care how tough the problem is, let alone acknowledge that, 'cause it's the users problem.
Testing and realising Secret Paladin was too strong against most decks before releasing TGT was probably a very easy thing to do (since almost everyone concluded this after playing some games with Mysterious Challenger), but considering I'm not a game designer like you, please, enlight me how is it possible not to realise this, without calling Ben Brode and Team 5 stupids without any knowledge about the game they made... Also, during your explaination, try to avoid saying things like they were too lazy to test this deck, because that wouldn't make any sense and would be beyond silly... you can't make a game like this a great success without taking it seriously and without doing one of the most basic things as a game designer: testing, specially while working for a company as important as Blizzard.
One thing that i'm curious about, is how big is their testing team is. Even if it was 500 plus people, you would have to admit that they could not have enough people to replicate the meta perfectly. Secret pally is weak to a few deck types after all (control priest, freeze mage).
One thing that i'm curious about, is how big is their testing team. Even if it was 500 plus people, you would have to admit that they could not have enough people to replicate the meta perfectly. Secret pally is weak to a few deck types after all (control priest, freeze mage).
They are working for Blizzard, wich has a lot of money for god sake... I'm pretty sure they have enough people as testers, or are you implying they are so stupid that didn't realised it yet? There is no way they can make a game like this a success without considering such silly things... also, again, they work for Blizzard, a company with a lot of experience in video games.
Looking at the way Hearthstone was intended to be - casual and friend based - I think their team simply isn't competitive oriented enough to predict all the cancer decks. It probably doesn't even come to their mind to make up these boring, mindless decks. To them secret paladin was probably simply a controllish deck with secrets scattered around and made sorta viable by MC.
I thought there were only about fifty people on Team 5? I can kind of understand seeing as how everyone was working on something. (Like how they said Tavern Brawl was getting worked on since beta) and even though they work for Blizzard, I don't believe Blizzard itself provides them with much support. They may be more concerned with things like Diablo, WoW and Overwatch (including the rumors that they may be converting a part of their studios for making movies.)
Also just looking at the deck, you wouldn't guess at first glance that it would be powerful. The ability itself seems silly, considering just how weak paladin secrets are by themselves. Though I think it would have been much more preferable if MC's ability was Inspire, summon a random paladin secret. I think whenever there's RNG, things don't go as well as they wish it would.
One thing that i'm curious about, is how big is their testing team. Even if it was 500 plus people, you would have to admit that they could not have enough people to replicate the meta perfectly. Secret pally is weak to a few deck types after all (control priest, freeze mage).
Their are working for Blizzard, they have a lot of money for god sake... I'm pretty sure they have enough people as testers, or are you implying that they are so stupid that didn't realised it yet? There is no way they can make a game like this a success without considering such silly things... also, again, they work for Blizzard, a company with a lot of experience in video games.
No, I am not implying they are stupid. They very likely did realize it was a powerful card, but I can not rule out the possibility that they may not of fully realized how powerful it would be. Even after it was released, secret pally did not start out like the mid-range/ tempo version we know today, but was a much more aggressive pseudo face deck for about the first month. It took time to become fully ripe. No matter how good a team is, or how much experience you have, you can still make mistakes, and some things can only be fully realized when released.
Looking at the way Hearthstone was intended to be - casual and friend based - I think their team simply isn't competitive oriented enough to predict all the cancer decks. It probably doesn't even come to their mind to make up these boring, mindless decks. To them secret paladin was probably simply a controllish deck with secrets scattered around and made sorta viable by MC.
C'mon dude, the average person can make a Secret Paladin deck from scratch in a blink... Why some people keep thinking this game is rocket science? LMAO.
Looking at the way Hearthstone was intended to be - casual and friend based - I think their team simply isn't competitive oriented enough to predict all the cancer decks. It probably doesn't even come to their mind to make up these boring, mindless decks. To them secret paladin was probably simply a controllish deck with secrets scattered around and made sorta viable by MC.
C'mon dude, the average person can make a Secret Paladin deck from scratch in a blink... Why some people keep thinking this game is rocket science? LMAO.
I'm not saying it's rocket science, I'm thinking someone who wants to play a nice, friendly game will make a nice, friendly game, ergo not try to play the likes of secret paladin. If Team 5 is indeed consisting of 50 people, probably none are pro testers or even remotely external to the design team which was centered around friendly games, and making on average 70+ cards in 3 months ( Including coding, which seems to be somewhat "artisanal" and not exactly mass produced, art seeking if not commussionning, concept tweaking... ) isn't all that little of a task.
If I'd been asked to make a secretadin deck for testing ( And even now, in fact, since I don't want to play the kind that pollutes the meta ) it would be a controlladin, and I would never have even thought about the potential of its quasi-aggro version.
Of course Secret Paladin exists yet because of Bli$$ard's greed. They will never nerf an EPIC card and give free 800 dust to most people. They prefer to lie using rigged statistics, and saying "it is false than 80% of people uses Secret Paladin, they are less than 20%", of course if you contemplate from rank 25 to 1. They think we are stupids. Fortunately I am a f2p player and i will NEVER spend a cent here.
I'm not saying it's rocket science, I'm thinking someone who wants to play a nice, friendly game will make a nice, friendly game, ergo not try to play the likes of secret paladin.
Hearthstone is not just a nice, friendly game man, it is currently one of the most important games of this company, and they take it very seriously... It would be retarded as hell not to do that. How wouldn't they take it seriously with all the money they make thanks to it? Blizzard is not charity, it is a video game company, and money is the most important thing for them, is it really that hard to believe?.
If I'd been asked to make a secretadin deck for testing ( And even now, in fact, since I don't want to play the kind that pollutes the meta ) it would be a controlladin, and I would never have even thought about the potential of its quasi-aggro version.
And now you know the reason why you would be terrible as a tester. :P
Of course Secret Paladin exists yet because of Bli$$ard's greed. They will never nerf an EPIC card and give free 800 dust to most people. They prefer to lie using rigged statistics, and saying "it is false than 80% of people uses Secret Paladin, they are less than 20%", of course if you contemplate from rank 25 to 1. They think we are stupids. Fortunately I am a f2p player and i will NEVER spend a cent here.
Even if a bit less than 20% of people are using Secret Paladin, you are supposedly still facing this deck about 1 out of 5 times... that still sucks dude, and is a lot of players. As far as I know, there are 9 classes in Hearthstone, not just 5 with a viable deck each one, LOL.
Looking at the way Hearthstone was intended to be - casual and friend based - I think their team simply isn't competitive oriented enough to predict all the cancer decks. It probably doesn't even come to their mind to make up these boring, mindless decks. To them secret paladin was probably simply a controllish deck with secrets scattered around and made sorta viable by MC.
C'mon dude, the average person can make a Secret Paladin deck from scratch in a blink... Why some people keep thinking this game is rocket science? LMAO.
Your opinion stinks of hindsight, just look at the number of people who didn't include Mysterious Challenger in their "Top 5" lists at TGT's release - what's obvious now was far from obvious then, and considering Team 5 is no match for the whole of the playerbase to test a product it's more than reasonable to assume the card was a developer oversight. These things happen in CCGs when people attempt to push the design of the game, any developer would attest to that fact.
I'm not saying it's rocket science, I'm thinking someone who wants to play a nice, friendly game will make a nice, friendly game, ergo not try to play the likes of secret paladin.
Hearthstone is not just a nice, friendly game man, it is currently one of the most important games of this company, and they take it very seriously... It would be retarded as hell not to do that. How wouldn't they take it seriously with all the money they make thanks to it? Blizzard is not charity, it is a video game company, and money is the most important thing for them, is it really that hard to believe?.
If I'd been asked to make a secretadin deck for testing ( And even now, in fact, since I don't want to play the kind that pollutes the meta ) it would be a controlladin, and I would never have even thought about the potential of its quasi-aggro version.
And now you know the reason why you would be terrible as a tester. :P
I think Hearthstone has gone way beyond what Blizzard had hoped, both in terms of scale and competitiveness. Also Hearthstone works because it's casual, flashy and all, not because of its competitiveness, so it wouldn't make that much sense to design it for the sake of competitiveness instead of the cool-effect.
I honestly believe team 5 is simply overwhelmed by what Hearthstone has become, simply wanting it to be people putting gimmicky and fun decks together to have quick fun, instead of the massive clusterf*ck of unfun decks that are here to get wins by ruining everybody's experience.
As to me being a terrible tester, I know, but I don't necessarily see why any of the people making the game would be all that much better considering I think we kind of share the philosophy of playing decks that are fun instead of those that rack up wins.
Looking at the way Hearthstone was intended to be - casual and friend based - I think their team simply isn't competitive oriented enough to predict all the cancer decks. It probably doesn't even come to their mind to make up these boring, mindless decks. To them secret paladin was probably simply a controllish deck with secrets scattered around and made sorta viable by MC.
C'mon dude, the average person can make a Secret Paladin deck from scratch in a blink... Why some people keep thinking this game is rocket science? LMAO.
Your opinion stinks of hindsight, just look at the number of people who didn't include Mysterious Challenger in their "Top 5" lists at TGT's release - what's obvious now was far from obvious then, and considering Team 5 is no match for the whole of the playerbase to test a product it's more than reasonable to assume the card was a developer oversight. These things happen in CCGs when people attempt to push the design of the game, any developer would attest to that fact.
So then why wouldn't they nerf it now if it was an oversight then?
The whole 'accusing Blizz of being money-grubbing' actually bothers me a lot. If they wanted money, they probably wouldn't have worked on a children's card game. They only made hearthstone this amazing because of selfless dedication and hard work. And what does their community say? They're greedy? It physically hurts me whenever I see someone saying something like that. It's unbelievably offensive and can't imagine what a Blizz dev feels when they get accused of something like that.
Looking at the way Hearthstone was intended to be - casual and friend based - I think their team simply isn't competitive oriented enough to predict all the cancer decks. It probably doesn't even come to their mind to make up these boring, mindless decks. To them secret paladin was probably simply a controllish deck with secrets scattered around and made sorta viable by MC.
C'mon dude, the average person can make a Secret Paladin deck from scratch in a blink... Why some people keep thinking this game is rocket science? LMAO.
Your opinion stinks of hindsight, just look at the number of people who didn't include Mysterious Challenger in their "Top 5" lists at TGT's release - what's obvious now was far from obvious then, and considering Team 5 is no match for the whole of the playerbase to test a product it's more than reasonable to assume the card was a developer oversight. These things happen in CCGs when people attempt to push the design of the game, any developer would attest to that fact.
LMAO dude, all those people not including Mysterious Challenger in their "Top 5" didn't have the chance to test it, wich is Blizzard job before releasing new content. LOL.
Because Ben Brode is very convincing when it comes to looking stupid. His entire big, long face looks stupid. The way his voice booms also sounds like he has a few screws stuck inside his brain. And the beard makes any man with facial hair look stupid. If you stand beside Ben Brode, you need to be bald in order for you to look smart.
He looks stupid, it's the way he was born. Doctors probably said "holy shit this is the dumbest looking baby i've delivered.".
He looks so stupid that even when he claims that the Earth orbits around the Sun, it sounds like a stupid suggestion. This nature of stupidity is so great that it is implied onto his entire team, just by mentioning them. If Ben Brode mentions Steven Hawkings, i'd be convinced that Steven Hawkings is stupid.
That's the reason, implied stupidity due to looks.
Seriously, I want to understand the way this people think. For example, why they believe (or pretend to believe) that Ben Brode didn't knew a deck like Secret Paladin would be too strong (thanks to Mysterious Challenger) and Lock and Load not part of the meta, when testing those cards is a child's game?. Seriously, almost everyone realised Secret Paladin was insane after just some games, why it would have been different for Team 5, who are the designers of this games (wich has been a great success since the begining)? Yeah they said they weren't aware of that, but they usually lie in our faces (check most Ben Brode videos on Youtube for that :P), and, in the end, their main purpose is to make money.
But why people love to imply Team 5 don't know nothing about this game (even the most basic things)?... that doesn't make any sense. This game is not rocket science, and building and testing a deck like Secret Paladin neither. So, are this people only haters? Why they spam this forum with all their hate?... or are they just totally naive? I want to know...
The purpose of this thread is mostly for those people who act this way to share their way of reasoning and intentions, I don't want to start a fight or anything, I'm just curious.
Saying anything short of Blizzard being money-loving Hitler worshipping Donald Trump voters is unacceptable to 99% of the people here.
Just look off this site and you realize that not everyone thinks Blizzard are total fuckups.
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My mandibles which are capable of pressing down and tearing, my talons which are known to intercept and hold.
"Not rocket science" - designed a lot of games have you? The truth is that balance in complex games is far more difficult to solve in practical terms than nozzle turbulence; rough solutions and over-engineering obviate the latter problem and allow you to avoid the vicious Navier–Stokes equations, but no comparable rough solutions are available for game balance. Brode's bosses sin is not to really care how tough the problem is, let alone acknowledge that, 'cause it's the users problem.
One thing that i'm curious about, is how big is their testing team is. Even if it was 500 plus people, you would have to admit that they could not have enough people to replicate the meta perfectly. Secret pally is weak to a few deck types after all (control priest, freeze mage).
Looking at the way Hearthstone was intended to be - casual and friend based - I think their team simply isn't competitive oriented enough to predict all the cancer decks. It probably doesn't even come to their mind to make up these boring, mindless decks. To them secret paladin was probably simply a controllish deck with secrets scattered around and made sorta viable by MC.
I thought there were only about fifty people on Team 5? I can kind of understand seeing as how everyone was working on something. (Like how they said Tavern Brawl was getting worked on since beta) and even though they work for Blizzard, I don't believe Blizzard itself provides them with much support. They may be more concerned with things like Diablo, WoW and Overwatch (including the rumors that they may be converting a part of their studios for making movies.)
Also just looking at the deck, you wouldn't guess at first glance that it would be powerful. The ability itself seems silly, considering just how weak paladin secrets are by themselves. Though I think it would have been much more preferable if MC's ability was Inspire, summon a random paladin secret. I think whenever there's RNG, things don't go as well as they wish it would.
Victory or Death!
Of course Secret Paladin exists yet because of Bli$$ard's greed. They will never nerf an EPIC card and give free 800 dust to most people. They prefer to lie using rigged statistics, and saying "it is false than 80% of people uses Secret Paladin, they are less than 20%", of course if you contemplate from rank 25 to 1. They think we are stupids. Fortunately I am a f2p player and i will NEVER spend a cent here.
The whole 'accusing Blizz of being money-grubbing' actually bothers me a lot. If they wanted money, they probably wouldn't have worked on a children's card game. They only made hearthstone this amazing because of selfless dedication and hard work. And what does their community say? They're greedy? It physically hurts me whenever I see someone saying something like that. It's unbelievably offensive and can't imagine what a Blizz dev feels when they get accused of something like that.
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Because Ben Brode is very convincing when it comes to looking stupid. His entire big, long face looks stupid. The way his voice booms also sounds like he has a few screws stuck inside his brain. And the beard makes any man with facial hair look stupid. If you stand beside Ben Brode, you need to be bald in order for you to look smart.
He looks stupid, it's the way he was born. Doctors probably said "holy shit this is the dumbest looking baby i've delivered.".
He looks so stupid that even when he claims that the Earth orbits around the Sun, it sounds like a stupid suggestion. This nature of stupidity is so great that it is implied onto his entire team, just by mentioning them. If Ben Brode mentions Steven Hawkings, i'd be convinced that Steven Hawkings is stupid.
That's the reason, implied stupidity due to looks.
"Put your face in the light!" - Tirion Fordring