Hunter's Mark i've noticed that this card dont really get any attention when there is a discussion about the current Hunter Situation. I do only play Hunter in ranked Games (no Rush, currently Rank 2) and this card was soooo many times used and needed....sometimes i felt really bad for the opponent as i played this card. But if you check the current "flames".....only UtH seems to get the attention? What are your experience with this card?
to Hunter Players which dont use it: "Why aren't you using a "almost hard" Removal for just 0 Mana (that means its free!) ?"
to non-Hunter Players: "What are you expirence with this card. How many times did you encounter it? How annoying was it ?"
For rush deck, it's not needed. Takes up space and does nothing since you have enough removal and aim for face instead of minions. I may take 1 though for druid taunter.
Dealing vs Hunter's mark isn't that problematic (never happened to ruin my game) . Hunter has to waste at least 2 cards to destroy my minion, which makes it worse than most of removals.
is it really a matter of numbers of cards? I mean with UtH, i have a beast for every enemy minion....and sniping down a big taunter with Hunter Marks....seams better and much more worth then any other removal?
I mostly use Hunter, and it's been in my deck since I started playing a few weeks back. I never use anyone else's decks, I just thought it would be useful myself, and it is!
Well sometimes it's really hard to draw to right card so you need to make sure that every card in the deck counts, especially when playing rush hunter cuz you will run out of card very quickly. If for some reason you can't draw any creatures, only spells instead, including hunter mark, the game is done for. Also Hunter has no way to ping 1 hp high attack enemy creature so you have to sacrifice your own which delays the rush by a lot. Though I must admit that this card is extremely good in mid-range hunter deck to remove a big taunter.
Dealing vs Hunter's mark isn't that problematic (never happened to ruin my game) . Hunter has to waste at least 2 cards to destroy my minion, which makes it worse than most of removals.
is it really a matter of numbers of cards? I mean with UtH, i have a beast for every enemy minion....and sniping down a big taunter with Hunter Marks....seams better and much more worth then any other removal?
When saying a card is good or bad you shouldnt be putting it in situations, neither good nor bad. Hunters mark enables you to kill any card at the cost of an additional card or using weapon durability.
When is a player willing to make this sacrifice: 1. Large threat (eg. Ragnaros). 2. To kill a minion preventing lethal damage. 3. Maintaining board control when you have board control.
It can be estimated that the usual use of Hunters Mark is a late game scenario. So you ask the question, are there better cards in a late game scenario and you need to kill a large minion or kill a minion that is preventing a lethal swing [notice that point 3 is ignored, as board control is already winning the game].
Deadly Shot: + Kills Minion Outright - Only effective when there is only 1 minion
5 Damage Dealers + Outright Kills Minions with 5 or less health + Kills with the assistance of 1 other minion (Equal to Hunters Mark) - Can not kill minions with health greater than 5 health
Silence Minions + Stops Taunt + Stops Continuous effects - Does not kill the minion - Not effective against Ragnaros
For the sake of further discussion, I think a combination of Silence Minions and Kill Command is better than adding Hunters Mark. Silence minions stop taunt, Kill command can kill almost anything or hit the face - and what it cant kill another minion will kill it, just like Hunters Mark.
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Nozdormu wins you every game where you opponent has to go to the bathroom on turn 9.
Unleash the Hounds (UtH) is simply better than Hunter's Mark given the synergies of Hunter Beast decks. Now if you're not playing Beast, then okay, Hunter's Mark is better, but otherwise -
So let's say I had a buff creature out, and dropped Buzzard and UtH. UtH rams to clear the field, not just killing one target but several, plus get massive card draw. Or let's say I had buff creature out, dropped Pig (or whatever it is) and UtH. Clears the field, plus have like a 8/5 on the field or whatever. That's huge, and that's the *standard* play of UtH. Hunter's Mark just doesn't give you that sort of stuff. UtH is like - defend against weenies. Defend against big creatures. You get a ton of disposable Charge creatures, plus typically big draw or a fatty. Almost the only thing that can really stop it is Abomination or Explosive Trap, but the *Hunter* decides when to play UtH. If Hunter sees Abomination, drop a Kill Shotfirst; if there's a Hunter Secret up, send some disposable minion in first, then drop the UtH and all the goodies.
If you see a post that you find objectionable, report it, it helps keep the forum clean. But be aware people are allowed a lot of latitude.
If you find my posts to be rude, objectionable, or whatever, well, I got tired of writing polite TL; DR (Too Long, Didn't Read) posts at crybaby whiners. So now I just make it short and nasty.
If you find that funny, well and good. If you find that sad, that's even better.
just like the9tail said, its all about situation. and in all situations, there seems to be a better answer than hunter's mark.
the fact that hunters mark is always a 2 for 1 card is what makes it poor choice. and from the top players im sure they'll tell you its all about the card advantage and board control that wins games.
like someone mentioned earlier, any 5 damage hunter card will be able to mostly do anything the hunters mark can do. the fact that the card is 0 mana doesnt really mean much since mana costs tend to determine when the card can be played and how well it can be comboed with other cards.
the time you'd want to use hunter's mark is most likely at the end game when big health creatures or when you have your full combo and you want to get rid of a taunt creature thats stopping you, both situations will most likely mean your in the mid to late game and thus there is much mana to be spent. thus at this point I dont think mana would be much of an issue since hunter combos tend to cost quite a small amount to execute.
and since hunter's mark is a 2 for 1 card, we can assume that you'll be attacking with a creature, and most likely a beast since hunters have such great synergy with them. this also means we can safely assume that kill command will most likely always be 5 damage. now majority of the beast in the game are on average 2-3 damage, and with how the hunter decks usually carry cards to boost these best damage, your going to have minions with at least 2-4 damage on them. that means with kill command your doing at least 7-9 damage to a minion with just 2 cards. and with most creatures with high health that you'd want to save your hunter's mark for will have that range of health on them.
the only ones that are out of that health range is deathwing (which will most likely always be by itself making it a perfect target for deadly shot), lord jaraxxaus, malaygos, ysera, and ancient of war (with taunt) which is a very small set of cards and thus very unlikely you'll run into them. also the fact that kill command is also capable of hitting the hero, making it a potential finisher as well, where hunter's mark can only affect minions.
so as you can see theres just more posibilities with other cards than with hunter's mark. now im not saying that its a bad card, just theres more reason to use other card than this one. I would think you should only take this card if you are taking even more removal for whatever reason.
Unleash the Hounds (UtH) is simply better than Hunter's Mark given the synergies of Hunter Beast decks. Now if you're not playing Beast, then okay, Hunter's Mark is better, but otherwise -
I dont really see why you want to choose between Unleash the Hounds OR Hunter's Mark. They reallywork good together, because Unleash the Hounds gives you only as much Hounds as enemy minions, so if you want to clean the board, all of them need to have 1 health.
Just to be a little bit off-topic, but the thing all the post about nerfing Unleash the Hounds don't consider: Your amazing card draw mostly only restores all the cards you need to pull off the combo. Let's say the enemy has 2 minions on the board (a common situation if the enemy is playing smart), one of them with more than 1 health, you need the two combo cards and one Hunter's Mark to clear the board. And you only get 2 cards. So if you calculate it, you spent one card for this action and 4 mana, because you needed that Hunter's Mark.
Hunters mark combined with arcane shot is the best removal imo. Deadly shot is iffy if theres a 2/1 and a rag on the field. But the 2 together kill anything :)
@senti_rk: I didn't mean to say not to use Hunter's Mark. I meant to say that in Hunter Beast decks, that Unleash the Hounds (UtH) comes first. Your point about UtH/Buzzard only restoring the cards needed to power the combo and the opponent only playing two minions is well-made, and something I ended up cutting out of my response for brevity. Before saying anything else, I'm not arguing for UtH being nerfed. Just saying it's a good card.
1. I agree only playing two minions vs Beast Hunter is often a good idea, but right there is a key point. Rush Murloc requires swarming the field. Sure, Rush Murloc has other answers, but part of the point is that UtH is a game changing card that really helps Hunter decks address minion swarm.
2. As to the card draw effect/replacement, yes and no. If you drop Buzzard and UtH, plus a well-placed Kill Shot or other Hunter removal spell, there's a good chance you cleared the field. If your opponent doesn't have a weapon or spell or minion with Charge ready to handle Buzzard, it sticks around to generate more card advantage next turn. The other part is that you start with four cards or more cards in hand. After a few turns of drawing (say UtH comes out turn five), you have a total of 9-10 cards pass through your hand. Your early plays are situational, but by dumping Buzzard and UtH, and perhaps another low-drop Beast at the end of that fifth turn, you simultaneously dump all the relatively low-utility low-casting cost minions in your hand, and draw new cards that can potentially be a lot bigger and more useful for the upcoming stages of the game. Plus, again, there's a chance you can generate even more card advantage if Buzzard sticks around.
The thing about UtH is it combos so nicely into both card draw, board clearance, and powering a huge fatty. It's just really really hard to go wrong with UtH. Again, not saying it needs nerf, or that Hunter's Mark shouldn't be used, but if you're going Beast, then most definitely go for UtH before Hunter's Mark (my opinion).
@Karstenisaname: I don't understand if you mean to say you believe Wild Pyromancer should be a staple in Beast decks. I'm not sure Hunter needs it, what with Explosive Trap, and Pyromancer injuring your own minions, but then, I haven't studied Hunter in detail yet, so I don't know. By the way, would Pyromancer kill all the hounds from UtH? Because if the spell resolves and the Hounds are placed, then the Pyromancer does the damage, that would be bad.
If you see a post that you find objectionable, report it, it helps keep the forum clean. But be aware people are allowed a lot of latitude.
If you find my posts to be rude, objectionable, or whatever, well, I got tired of writing polite TL; DR (Too Long, Didn't Read) posts at crybaby whiners. So now I just make it short and nasty.
If you find that funny, well and good. If you find that sad, that's even better.
@AardvarkPepper: I didn't intend to bring this to a Unleash the Hounds-nerf discussion, it just came to my mind because we discussed Hunter's Mark and of course you're right when you say Unleash the Houndscomes first as a staple and THEN one has to decide what kind of removal he wants to have.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
- senti
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hello fellow hearthstone players!
Hunter's Mark
i've noticed that this card dont really get any attention when there is a discussion about the current Hunter Situation.
I do only play Hunter in ranked Games (no Rush, currently Rank 2) and this card was soooo many times used and needed....sometimes i felt really bad for the opponent as i played this card.
But if you check the current "flames".....only UtH seems to get the attention?
What are your experience with this card?
to Hunter Players which dont use it:
"Why aren't you using a "almost hard" Removal for just 0 Mana (that means its free!) ?"
to non-Hunter Players:
"What are you expirence with this card. How many times did you encounter it? How annoying was it ?"
For rush deck, it's not needed. Takes up space and does nothing since you have enough removal and aim for face instead of minions. I may take 1 though for druid taunter.
is it really a matter of numbers of cards?
I mean with UtH, i have a beast for every enemy minion....and sniping down a big taunter with Hunter Marks....seams better and much more worth then any other removal?
I mostly use Hunter, and it's been in my deck since I started playing a few weeks back. I never use anyone else's decks, I just thought it would be useful myself, and it is!
Well sometimes it's really hard to draw to right card so you need to make sure that every card in the deck counts, especially when playing rush hunter cuz you will run out of card very quickly. If for some reason you can't draw any creatures, only spells instead, including hunter mark, the game is done for. Also Hunter has no way to ping 1 hp high attack enemy creature so you have to sacrifice your own which delays the rush by a lot. Though I must admit that this card is extremely good in mid-range hunter deck to remove a big taunter.
When saying a card is good or bad you shouldnt be putting it in situations, neither good nor bad.
Hunters mark enables you to kill any card at the cost of an additional card or using weapon durability.
When is a player willing to make this sacrifice:
1. Large threat (eg. Ragnaros).
2. To kill a minion preventing lethal damage.
3. Maintaining board control when you have board control.
It can be estimated that the usual use of Hunters Mark is a late game scenario. So you ask the question, are there better cards in a late game scenario and you need to kill a large minion or kill a minion that is preventing a lethal swing [notice that point 3 is ignored, as board control is already winning the game].
Options: Deadly Shot, Explosive Shot/Kill Command/Gladiator's Longbow, Silence Minions
Deadly Shot:
+ Kills Minion Outright
- Only effective when there is only 1 minion
5 Damage Dealers
+ Outright Kills Minions with 5 or less health
+ Kills with the assistance of 1 other minion (Equal to Hunters Mark)
- Can not kill minions with health greater than 5 health
Silence Minions
+ Stops Taunt
+ Stops Continuous effects
- Does not kill the minion
- Not effective against Ragnaros
For the sake of further discussion, I think a combination of Silence Minions and Kill Command is better than adding Hunters Mark.
Silence minions stop taunt, Kill command can kill almost anything or hit the face - and what it cant kill another minion will kill it, just like Hunters Mark.
Nozdormu wins you every game where you opponent has to go to the bathroom on turn 9.
Unleash the Hounds (UtH) is simply better than Hunter's Mark given the synergies of Hunter Beast decks. Now if you're not playing Beast, then okay, Hunter's Mark is better, but otherwise -
So let's say I had a buff creature out, and dropped Buzzard and UtH. UtH rams to clear the field, not just killing one target but several, plus get massive card draw. Or let's say I had buff creature out, dropped Pig (or whatever it is) and UtH. Clears the field, plus have like a 8/5 on the field or whatever. That's huge, and that's the *standard* play of UtH. Hunter's Mark just doesn't give you that sort of stuff. UtH is like - defend against weenies. Defend against big creatures. You get a ton of disposable Charge creatures, plus typically big draw or a fatty. Almost the only thing that can really stop it is Abomination or Explosive Trap, but the *Hunter* decides when to play UtH. If Hunter sees Abomination, drop a Kill Shotfirst; if there's a Hunter Secret up, send some disposable minion in first, then drop the UtH and all the goodies.
If you see a post that you find objectionable, report it, it helps keep the forum clean. But be aware people are allowed a lot of latitude.
If you find my posts to be rude, objectionable, or whatever, well, I got tired of writing polite TL; DR (Too Long, Didn't Read) posts at crybaby whiners. So now I just make it short and nasty.
If you find that funny, well and good. If you find that sad, that's even better.
just like the9tail said, its all about situation. and in all situations, there seems to be a better answer than hunter's mark.
the fact that hunters mark is always a 2 for 1 card is what makes it poor choice. and from the top players im sure they'll tell you its all about the card advantage and board control that wins games.
like someone mentioned earlier, any 5 damage hunter card will be able to mostly do anything the hunters mark can do. the fact that the card is 0 mana doesnt really mean much since mana costs tend to determine when the card can be played and how well it can be comboed with other cards.
the time you'd want to use hunter's mark is most likely at the end game when big health creatures or when you have your full combo and you want to get rid of a taunt creature thats stopping you, both situations will most likely mean your in the mid to late game and thus there is much mana to be spent. thus at this point I dont think mana would be much of an issue since hunter combos tend to cost quite a small amount to execute.
and since hunter's mark is a 2 for 1 card, we can assume that you'll be attacking with a creature, and most likely a beast since hunters have such great synergy with them. this also means we can safely assume that kill command will most likely always be 5 damage. now majority of the beast in the game are on average 2-3 damage, and with how the hunter decks usually carry cards to boost these best damage, your going to have minions with at least 2-4 damage on them. that means with kill command your doing at least 7-9 damage to a minion with just 2 cards. and with most creatures with high health that you'd want to save your hunter's mark for will have that range of health on them.
the only ones that are out of that health range is deathwing (which will most likely always be by itself making it a perfect target for deadly shot), lord jaraxxaus, malaygos, ysera, and ancient of war (with taunt) which is a very small set of cards and thus very unlikely you'll run into them. also the fact that kill command is also capable of hitting the hero, making it a potential finisher as well, where hunter's mark can only affect minions.
so as you can see theres just more posibilities with other cards than with hunter's mark. now im not saying that its a bad card, just theres more reason to use other card than this one. I would think you should only take this card if you are taking even more removal for whatever reason.
I dont really see why you want to choose between Unleash the Hounds OR Hunter's Mark. They reallywork good together, because Unleash the Hounds gives you only as much Hounds as enemy minions, so if you want to clean the board, all of them need to have 1 health.
Just to be a little bit off-topic, but the thing all the post about nerfing Unleash the Hounds don't consider: Your amazing card draw mostly only restores all the cards you need to pull off the combo. Let's say the enemy has 2 minions on the board (a common situation if the enemy is playing smart), one of them with more than 1 health, you need the two combo cards and one Hunter's Mark to clear the board. And you only get 2 cards. So if you calculate it, you spent one card for this action and 4 mana, because you needed that Hunter's Mark.
- senti
Hunters mark combined with arcane shot is the best removal imo. Deadly shot is iffy if theres a 2/1 and a rag on the field. But the 2 together kill anything :)
@senti_rk: I didn't mean to say not to use Hunter's Mark. I meant to say that in Hunter Beast decks, that Unleash the Hounds (UtH) comes first. Your point about UtH/Buzzard only restoring the cards needed to power the combo and the opponent only playing two minions is well-made, and something I ended up cutting out of my response for brevity. Before saying anything else, I'm not arguing for UtH being nerfed. Just saying it's a good card.
1. I agree only playing two minions vs Beast Hunter is often a good idea, but right there is a key point. Rush Murloc requires swarming the field. Sure, Rush Murloc has other answers, but part of the point is that UtH is a game changing card that really helps Hunter decks address minion swarm.
2. As to the card draw effect/replacement, yes and no. If you drop Buzzard and UtH, plus a well-placed Kill Shot or other Hunter removal spell, there's a good chance you cleared the field. If your opponent doesn't have a weapon or spell or minion with Charge ready to handle Buzzard, it sticks around to generate more card advantage next turn. The other part is that you start with four cards or more cards in hand. After a few turns of drawing (say UtH comes out turn five), you have a total of 9-10 cards pass through your hand. Your early plays are situational, but by dumping Buzzard and UtH, and perhaps another low-drop Beast at the end of that fifth turn, you simultaneously dump all the relatively low-utility low-casting cost minions in your hand, and draw new cards that can potentially be a lot bigger and more useful for the upcoming stages of the game. Plus, again, there's a chance you can generate even more card advantage if Buzzard sticks around.
The thing about UtH is it combos so nicely into both card draw, board clearance, and powering a huge fatty. It's just really really hard to go wrong with UtH. Again, not saying it needs nerf, or that Hunter's Mark shouldn't be used, but if you're going Beast, then most definitely go for UtH before Hunter's Mark (my opinion).
@Karstenisaname: I don't understand if you mean to say you believe Wild Pyromancer should be a staple in Beast decks. I'm not sure Hunter needs it, what with Explosive Trap, and Pyromancer injuring your own minions, but then, I haven't studied Hunter in detail yet, so I don't know. By the way, would Pyromancer kill all the hounds from UtH? Because if the spell resolves and the Hounds are placed, then the Pyromancer does the damage, that would be bad.
If you see a post that you find objectionable, report it, it helps keep the forum clean. But be aware people are allowed a lot of latitude.
If you find my posts to be rude, objectionable, or whatever, well, I got tired of writing polite TL; DR (Too Long, Didn't Read) posts at crybaby whiners. So now I just make it short and nasty.
If you find that funny, well and good. If you find that sad, that's even better.
@AardvarkPepper: I didn't intend to bring this to a Unleash the Hounds-nerf discussion, it just came to my mind because we discussed Hunter's Mark and of course you're right when you say Unleash the Houndscomes first as a staple and THEN one has to decide what kind of removal he wants to have.
- senti