Hey I was thinking about the "skip your next turn" mechanic and how to balance it. Inspired by M:TG cards like Meditation, I am curious how to balance cards around that mechanic, since HS and M:TG differ quite a lot in this regard. Here is my take, please share your thoughts, ideas and own creations.
if you get what you need to win this turn - you win, if you don't get - you probably lose the game
the only other way I can see to play this cars is on turn 1 cause your opponent can do a lot with 2-3 mana, but even then you will probably be too behind on board to come back
That is why I am curious about other ideas on how to balance the mechanic, since the effect definitely has to be quite powerful. Interestingly, I would say even my card can only be played as a last resort in the late game, so it would be a dead card in your hand before that. On the other hand in mage, you could set up a Counterspell and Ice Block scenario to sustain the turn loss.
In M:TG you can play cards like this because you actually have the opportunity to cast instants and such during your opponent's turn. In Hearthstone losing a turn means your opponent can do whatever he wants. It feels like this mechanic is a losing play in HS.
And in Magic you can also block attackers if you have a board. In HS if you play this the opponent will go face two turns in a row. Seems to much of a drawback to me, when played on turn one it's OP, when played at anyother moment in the game it's insta lost.
I forgot : since you lose a turn you also lose your draw, which makes this even worse.
I am well aware that my card is most probably unplayable, despite the very powerful upside. I am also aware of the disadvantages and how you cannot respond like in M:TG. Though Meditation was never cast outside of combo decks I guess in the turn you went off.
So please share your creations and try to balance the disadvantage, instead of saying it is impossible to pull off...
Another thing people have forgotten about is that you fall behind on mana in Hearthstone if you lose your turn, which is actually the worst effect of losing a turn. Early game cards where you lose your next turn are actually the worst, then, because this will have the most impact. This could be compensated for by having the card also give you a mana crystal.
That is why I put it in druid, since it is the only class that can actually gain mana crystals to compensate if you play it early. I'd really like to see some other suggestions though, so get creative :)
That is why I put it in druid, since it is the only class that can actually gain mana crystals to compensate if you play it early. I'd really like to see some other suggestions though, so get creative :)
I'll start with another suggestion:
Utterly broken against aggro.
Disregard the board early, play this on turn 4, have a 5/5 taunt ready on your opponent's turn 4/5, which is the equivalent of playing a 5/5 taunt on turn 5 yourself if not better.
This has almost litterally zero downside if played on curve.
That is why I put it in druid, since it is the only class that can actually gain mana crystals to compensate if you play it early. I'd really like to see some other suggestions though, so get creative :)
I'll start with another suggestion:
Utterly broken against aggro.
Disregard the board early, play this on turn 4, have a 5/5 taunt ready on your opponent's turn 4/5, which is the equivalent of playing a 5/5 taunt on turn 5 yourself if not better.
This has almost litterally zero downside if played on curve.
Also don't forget the "battlecry:" tag.
Wait, WTF? No downside? Did you miss the part where you skip your next turn?
That is why I put it in druid, since it is the only class that can actually gain mana crystals to compensate if you play it early. I'd really like to see some other suggestions though, so get creative :)
I'll start with another suggestion:
Utterly broken against aggro.
Disregard the board early, play this on turn 4, have a 5/5 taunt ready on your opponent's turn 4/5, which is the equivalent of playing a 5/5 taunt on turn 5 yourself if not better.
This has almost litterally zero downside if played on curve.
Also don't forget the "battlecry:" tag.
Wait, WTF? No downside? Did you miss the part where you skip your next turn?
Equivalent to playing a Twisting Nether on turn 4 and a 5/5 with Taunt on turn 5 ( And "on turn 5" I mean "is already there on your opponent's previous turn, so, suck it, chargers" ).
Granted, it sets you up on a very precise path, but that path is very very close to the absolute perfect one against any aggro deck ( Think about destroying everything an aggro shaman played up until turn 4, so, 7/7 included, and then slamming a 5/5 taunt on turn 5 that will litterally trade anything they could possibly play ), and that in a single card.
That is why I put it in druid, since it is the only class that can actually gain mana crystals to compensate if you play it early. I'd really like to see some other suggestions though, so get creative :)
I'll start with another suggestion:
Utterly broken against aggro.
Disregard the board early, play this on turn 4, have a 5/5 taunt ready on your opponent's turn 4/5, which is the equivalent of playing a 5/5 taunt on turn 5 yourself if not better.
This has almost litterally zero downside if played on curve.
Also don't forget the "battlecry:" tag.
Wait, WTF? No downside? Did you miss the part where you skip your next turn?
Equivalent to playing a Twisting Nether on turn 4 and a 5/5 with Taunt on turn 5 ( And "on turn 5" I mean "is already there on your opponent's previous turn, so, suck it, chargers" ).
Granted, it sets you up on a very precise path, but that path is very very close to the absolute perfect one against any aggro deck ( Think about destroying everything an aggro shaman played up until turn 4, so, 7/7 included, and then slamming a 5/5 taunt on turn 5 that will litterally trade anything they could possibly play ), and that in a single card.
I don't see where's the downside in this.
Again, have you thought at all about what it means to skip your turn? You lose a card draw, your opponent gets to play twice in a row, and you lose out on a mana crystal. This last one is especially damaging, and it is why Felguard is pretty much the worst card in the game. Skipping your turn is a crazy bad downside. Actually think about it before you comment any more.
Please come up with a constructive solution then. It is very challenging to balance that particular mechanic, so please give it a try :)
I think it might actually be balanced. I was arguing against the guy who said it was OP, because his argument was so ridiculous. It's a powerful card, because it can clear a board for cheap and you get a relatively buff Taunt. But skipping your turn is so bad that it might cancel out. The only problem is that you rarely need a Twisting Nether style board clear at turn 4. It might work if it were played in the late game, along with something else. And it may also need to destroy only enemy minions. I would say that is probably the only change it needs.
That is why I put it in druid, since it is the only class that can actually gain mana crystals to compensate if you play it early. I'd really like to see some other suggestions though, so get creative :)
I'll start with another suggestion:
Utterly broken against aggro.
Disregard the board early, play this on turn 4, have a 5/5 taunt ready on your opponent's turn 4/5, which is the equivalent of playing a 5/5 taunt on turn 5 yourself if not better.
This has almost litterally zero downside if played on curve.
Also don't forget the "battlecry:" tag.
Wait, WTF? No downside? Did you miss the part where you skip your next turn?
Equivalent to playing a Twisting Nether on turn 4 and a 5/5 with Taunt on turn 5 ( And "on turn 5" I mean "is already there on your opponent's previous turn, so, suck it, chargers" ).
Granted, it sets you up on a very precise path, but that path is very very close to the absolute perfect one against any aggro deck ( Think about destroying everything an aggro shaman played up until turn 4, so, 7/7 included, and then slamming a 5/5 taunt on turn 5 that will litterally trade anything they could possibly play ), and that in a single card.
I don't see where's the downside in this.
Again, have you thought at all about what it means to skip your turn? You lose a card draw, your opponent gets to play twice in a row, and you lose out on a mana crystal. This last one is especially damaging, and it is why Felguard is pretty much the worst card in the game. Skipping your turn is a crazy bad downside. Actually think about it before you comment any more.
Yeah, and in MTG, skipping a turn to draw 4 cards ( Which is less valuable than 4 cards in HS because you have to draw your own mana ) for 3 mana ( Which is almost as much as 4 mana in Hearthstone, especially if you consider Meditate is a blue mana card which will lock your mana to prevent counterspelling and all ) is considered quite powerful if not bonkers in some match-ups.
This is taking into account that taunt minions do not exist in MTG, so, if you give your opponent 2 turns to attack, your minions will only block once ( As opposed to Hearthstone where this minion will be a regular 5/5 taunt, which will keep protecting you until it dies ).
So, yeah, I'm pretty f*cking sure clearing any board and playing a 5/5 taunt for 4 mana is powerful, even if skipping a turn. If anything,I'm waiting to know why this card wouldn't be crazy. Zombie Chow was played in loads of decks and considered very good simply because it would be good against aggro. In a meta where all aggro decks strive on board control, a turn 4 twitsting nether with a 5/5 taunt along with it is a game ender, especially since 4-5 mana allows you to do most of what you'd want to do against aggro decks anyway, which is get fairly medium minions down to trade or play some removal.
In fact, I still stick to the fact it is OP even just mathematically. This card is roughly equivalent to playing a Twisting Nether on turn 4 and a 5/5 with Taunt on turn 5 ( Better, if anything, considering your opponent's cahrge minions can't get through inbetween your 2 turns ). The lost card is easily dealt away with the fact you really have played a 2-for-1 deal here, and the lost turn is because you played a 5 mana 5/5 taunt on your 5th turn ( Which is very good, and even better if you coined out that card ). The lost mana crystal ? Please, you just ended the game, give me a break ; Felguard trades a full mana crystal for 1 f*cking stat point. I can't even take the argument seriously.
As to making that effect work, you can't. And I don't mean "skipping your turn", because this is a very viable mechanic, however, giving it so much value doesn't work, especially when you do it on such an effect. I don't mind losing a turn when my opponent lost the game.
I don't think I can argue with someone with such a poor grasp of game mechanics. Even your MTG mechanics are factually incorrect. If your opponent takes two turns in a row in MTG, you can block both times with the same creatures. And damage is reset at the end of every turn, mitigating the effect of losing your turn compared to Hearthstone. And you've got to be a moron if you think Taunt in Hearthstone gives you some sort of advantage over MTG. It's like you have no idea how Hearthstone is an offense-oriented game while MTG is defense-oriented. Taunt is completely unnecessary in MTG because the defender determines which creatures attack which. Taunt would be meaningless.
Also, your assertion that this card is equivalent to playing a Twisting Nether on turn 4 plus a 5/5 Taunt on turn 5 is ludicrous. You skip a card draw and a mana crystal. It is nowhere near equivalent. And yes, Felguard is bad because you lose a mana crystal to gain 1 mana advantage. But the reason it is so bad is because losing a mana crystal is absolutely devastating, especially in the early game. Losing a mana crystal, all else being equal, will lose you the game. And you are just waving it away as if it barely even matters. You need something crazy good like this card to make up for a lost mana crystal (plus, your opponent gets two turns in a row to build up board presence and kill the minion you just put out while you just have to sit there, and they get an extra card).
You can keep arguing that this is OP, but you are just making yourself look like an idiot who has no understanding of card game mechanics.
Hey I was thinking about the "skip your next turn" mechanic and how to balance it. Inspired by M:TG cards like Meditation, I am curious how to balance cards around that mechanic, since HS and M:TG differ quite a lot in this regard. Here is my take, please share your thoughts, ideas and own creations.
I feels to me like an all-in card.
if you get what you need to win this turn - you win,
if you don't get - you probably lose the game
the only other way I can see to play this cars is on turn 1 cause your opponent can do a lot with 2-3 mana, but even then you will probably be too behind on board to come back
That is why I am curious about other ideas on how to balance the mechanic, since the effect definitely has to be quite powerful. Interestingly, I would say even my card can only be played as a last resort in the late game, so it would be a dead card in your hand before that. On the other hand in mage, you could set up a Counterspell and Ice Block scenario to sustain the turn loss.
In M:TG you can play cards like this because you actually have the opportunity to cast instants and such during your opponent's turn. In Hearthstone losing a turn means your opponent can do whatever he wants. It feels like this mechanic is a losing play in HS.
And in Magic you can also block attackers if you have a board. In HS if you play this the opponent will go face two turns in a row. Seems to much of a drawback to me, when played on turn one it's OP, when played at anyother moment in the game it's insta lost.
I forgot : since you lose a turn you also lose your draw, which makes this even worse.
I used to be a control player like you, then I took a quick shot to the knee.
It looks good on turn 1 or 2, decent vs control matchups and so incredibly horrible vs aggro/tempo decks.
The answer to all your doubts will always be
I am well aware that my card is most probably unplayable, despite the very powerful upside. I am also aware of the disadvantages and how you cannot respond like in M:TG. Though Meditation was never cast outside of combo decks I guess in the turn you went off.
So please share your creations and try to balance the disadvantage, instead of saying it is impossible to pull off...
Another thing people have forgotten about is that you fall behind on mana in Hearthstone if you lose your turn, which is actually the worst effect of losing a turn. Early game cards where you lose your next turn are actually the worst, then, because this will have the most impact. This could be compensated for by having the card also give you a mana crystal.
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if i play this card i just hope for no tempo deck shenanigans or i am screwed XD
overall an interesting card, but kind of sucks if you skip a turn against an aggressive deck. you might not be able to make a comeback.
That is why I put it in druid, since it is the only class that can actually gain mana crystals to compensate if you play it early. I'd really like to see some other suggestions though, so get creative :)
I'll start with another suggestion:
How would you balance it then?
Come Play Make the Keyword!!!
Check out my Worgen Class in the Class Competition
Come Play Make the Keyword!!!
Check out my Worgen Class in the Class Competition
Please come up with a constructive solution then. It is very challenging to balance that particular mechanic, so please give it a try :)
Come Play Make the Keyword!!!
Check out my Worgen Class in the Class Competition
Sorry I did not mean you, I understand that you see the severe disadvantage. Thanks for the feedback anyways...
I think this could be an interesting mechanic to add to the game. Probably will never happen. But you never know!
I don't think I can argue with someone with such a poor grasp of game mechanics. Even your MTG mechanics are factually incorrect. If your opponent takes two turns in a row in MTG, you can block both times with the same creatures. And damage is reset at the end of every turn, mitigating the effect of losing your turn compared to Hearthstone. And you've got to be a moron if you think Taunt in Hearthstone gives you some sort of advantage over MTG. It's like you have no idea how Hearthstone is an offense-oriented game while MTG is defense-oriented. Taunt is completely unnecessary in MTG because the defender determines which creatures attack which. Taunt would be meaningless.
Also, your assertion that this card is equivalent to playing a Twisting Nether on turn 4 plus a 5/5 Taunt on turn 5 is ludicrous. You skip a card draw and a mana crystal. It is nowhere near equivalent. And yes, Felguard is bad because you lose a mana crystal to gain 1 mana advantage. But the reason it is so bad is because losing a mana crystal is absolutely devastating, especially in the early game. Losing a mana crystal, all else being equal, will lose you the game. And you are just waving it away as if it barely even matters. You need something crazy good like this card to make up for a lost mana crystal (plus, your opponent gets two turns in a row to build up board presence and kill the minion you just put out while you just have to sit there, and they get an extra card).
You can keep arguing that this is OP, but you are just making yourself look like an idiot who has no understanding of card game mechanics.
Come Play Make the Keyword!!!
Check out my Worgen Class in the Class Competition