@Murlocks: This is a tough matchup but I still find it in our favor. You need to mulligan aggressively for Backstab and SI:7 Agents (although this can be too slow if you don't have other removal). Get an early dagger and Ringleader is great for extra removal. You need to control turns 1-4 before it gets out of hand. When they are at the point of using hero power to amass the next wave, you HAVE to build up into bigger taunt creatures or have bigger bodies by simply dropping DID for trades while keeping a board presence. You cannot afford to standback playing the control role since their eventual card advantage and larger murloc board will overrun you. The matchup is actually not too bad unless they have multiple Blood Imps. This is the nightmare and toughest to deal with since your removals are not as effective and you can't trade up, nor pressure them. I've won a game against double blood imps surviving 3 waves, only because the murlock player got greedy and tried to win faster with attacking with his imps when I was at 7. If he had waited for 3-4 turns, he would overrun me regardless.
This deck took me from Rank 10 to 4, and has been a great exercise of improving as a Hearthstone player. I used to play as Mage/Warlock and always respected Rogue players since I think Rogues are better players since they don't necessarily have the unfair cards that other classes do (their cards are simple mechanics), but playing and reserving cards in the right order while considering board/card/life advantage is deadly.
One of the issues that I personally have been struggling is Defias Ringleader. I almost never want to see it in my turn 1 opening, and going second sometimes involve weighing against coining 3-mana turn 2 drops (SI: 7 Agent or SSC or Golems). In your list, I do like the fact that the synergize nicely with Knife Jugglers, but I've always found opponents removing Knife Jugglers in any deck accept Mage with Mirror Image. Can you provide advice on when do you play Knife Jugglers/Ringleaders? e.g. in terms of coining turn 1 Jugglers and Ringleaders, which presents more value, especially against decks that have hero abilities that can minimize the gains from your plays e.g. Rogue/Mage/Druid.
Another line of play that I'm executing although I'm not sure if I'm doing this right, is that I tend to avoid playing Loot Hoarders and Ringleaders against opponents that have an Argent Squire out. I know this slows down the deck's aggressiveness but I'm not willing to give them a slight gain by simply losing a 2/1 in the process. What I usually end up in this case is to get my daggers skipping my 2-drop and clear out the Squire and delaying my plays a turn or 2. Is this the right line of play?
Overall, playing Rogue really improves your skill in the game since you have to analyze your options for maximum future gain. And Leeroy Jenkins is almost irreplaceable. I just crafted him yesterday. The one copy of Shadowstep is what I run with as well. It's great for recycling Argent Commander, DID and provides the last gas you need when you bounce Argent Commander and Leeroy Jenkins back to your hand to set up for a safe finish (dodging removal). Jenkins + Shadowstep = 12 damage for 6 mana. I usually end up saving Jenkins + Eviscerate (10 damage) or Jenkins + Shadowstep (12 damage) in my final turns.
@Murlocks: This is a tough matchup but I still find it in our favor. You need to mulligan aggressively for Backstab and SI:7 Agents (although this can be too slow if you don't have other removal). Get an early dagger and Ringleader is great for extra removal. You need to control turns 1-4 before it gets out of hand. When they are at the point of using hero power to amass the next wave, you HAVE to build up into bigger taunt creatures or have bigger bodies by simply dropping DID for trades while keeping a board presence. You cannot afford to standback playing the control role since their eventual card advantage and larger murloc board will overrun you. The matchup is actually not too bad unless they have multiple Blood Imps. This is the nightmare and toughest to deal with since your removals are not as effective and you can't trade up, nor pressure them. I've won a game against double blood imps surviving 3 waves, only because the murlock player got greedy and tried to win faster with attacking with his imps when I was at 7. If he had waited for 3-4 turns, he would overrun me regardless.
This deck took me from Rank 10 to 4, and has been a great exercise of improving as a Hearthstone player. I used to play as Mage/Warlock and always respected Rogue players since I think Rogues are better players since they don't necessarily have the unfair cards that other classes do (their cards are simple mechanics), but playing and reserving cards in the right order while considering board/card/life advantage is deadly.
One of the issues that I personally have been struggling is Defias Ringleader. I almost never want to see it in my turn 1 opening, and going second sometimes involve weighing against coining 3-mana turn 2 drops (SI: 7 Agent or SSC or Golems). In your list, I do like the fact that the synergize nicely with Knife Jugglers, but I've always found opponents removing Knife Jugglers in any deck accept Mage with Mirror Image. Can you provide advice on when do you play Knife Jugglers/Ringleaders? e.g. in terms of coining turn 1 Jugglers and Ringleaders, which presents more value, especially against decks that have hero abilities that can minimize the gains from your plays e.g. Rogue/Mage/Druid.
Another line of play that I'm executing although I'm not sure if I'm doing this right, is that I tend to avoid playing Loot Hoarders and Ringleaders against opponents that have an Argent Squire out. I know this slows down the deck's aggressiveness but I'm not willing to give them a slight gain by simply losing a 2/1 in the process. What I usually end up in this case is to get my daggers skipping my 2-drop and clear out the Squire and delaying my plays a turn or 2. Is this the right line of play?
Overall, playing Rogue really improves your skill in the game since you have to analyze your options for maximum future gain. And Leeroy Jenkins is almost irreplaceable. I just crafted him yesterday. The one copy of Shadowstep is what I run with as well. It's great for recycling Argent Commander, DID and provides the last gas you need when you bounce Argent Commander and Leeroy Jenkins back to your hand to set up for a safe finish (dodging removal). Jenkins + Shadowstep = 12 damage for 6 mana. I usually end up saving Jenkins + Eviscerate (10 damage) or Jenkins + Shadowstep (12 damage) in my final turns.
Honestly, I feel the exact same way about Defias Ringleader. Lately, it's been in my mind to cut him, but I'm not sure if thats correct, I just feel like he's the weakest card in the deck very often.
I do play against Argent Squire like that, holding off my threats for a turn and using the hero power to take it out.
As for playing Juggler, it depends on the matchup and my hand and overall gameplan. If I have other plays, I'll sometimes hold him out until turn 4 to play Juggler+Ringleader in the hopes of getting some CA and tempo out of it, but more often i'll just play him on turn 1 or 2 and let my opponent scramble to answer him immediately (which they always do). That obviously doesn't mean playing him into a Loot Hoarder or something, but i'll trade him for a Wrath.
I wonder how this deck would fare without a defias. I too find myself disliking him most of the time. What other 2 drop is comparable though? My immediate thought is Faerie Dragon.
I see the value of Knife + Defias with 4 mana, but that combination on turn 4 still seems a little slow. Like what xctu said, it depends on which deck you're playing against. Most decks will have some form of answer to that combination that will net them card advantage (not to mention, adding to the list of creatures you've played before turn 4).
Off the top of my head:
Wild Pyromancer + Spell (kills all)
Consecration (kills all)
Swipe (Leaves a 2/2)
Wrath + Druid Hero Power (leaves a 2/2)
From what I was testing (keeping in mind of the concept of 'win-more'), I think if your opponent cannot deal with Knife Juggler and Defias, that's equivalent to saying that he is unable to deal with a board of 3/2, 2/2, 2/1 on turn 4, which basically means that you're guaranteed the win no matter what those cards could be due to the nature of this deck benefiting from free early game damage to the enemy's face. But I'm not quite sure if Defias is replaceable since I'm not at legendary right now :P
I've seen some rogue decks running Southsea Deckhand and I'm pretty fond of this card, partly due with the awkwardness of Defias in many games I've played (i.e. sitting in a hand of coin, SI, Defias and playing against Druid knowing that coining a Defias on turn 1 isn't a huge gain as coining SI on turn 2 killing their X/2). I think Deckhand might also be another way to play more tightly since it's 1-mana, providing you with some pretty critical plays that would otherwise be awkward if deckhand was in your hand, and also avoiding those awkward moments where you are reluctant to play Defias hoping to wait to gain value, and realizing you have to just play it for the 2/2 anyway before it becomes irrelevant.
Turn 2 dagger, Turn 3 hasted Deckhand + Juggler
Turn 2/3 dagger, Turn 4 hasted Deckhand + SI
I like that the haste actually is relevant and doesn't become dead in the late game. Most games, I feel Defias ends up doing an average of 4 damage, and I think Deckhand might be capable around an average of 2-4. I feel that Defias shines when your opponents can't deal with it, and you have basically free damage for 1-2 turns which can easily add up to 4-8 damage, but we don't see those situations in games where we're behind. Any thoughts?
I see the value of Knife + Defias with 4 mana, but that combination on turn 4 still seems a little slow. Like what xctu said, it depends on which deck you're playing against. Most decks will have some form of answer to that combination that will net them card advantage (not to mention, adding to the list of creatures you've played before turn 4).
Off the top of my head:
Wild Pyromancer + Spell (kills all)
Consecration (kills all)
Swipe (Leaves a 2/2)
Wrath + Druid Hero Power (leaves a 2/2)
From what I was testing (keeping in mind of the concept of 'win-more'), I think if your opponent cannot deal with Knife Juggler and Defias, that's equivalent to saying that he is unable to deal with a board of 3/2, 2/2, 2/1 on turn 4, which basically means that you're guaranteed the win no matter what those cards could be due to the nature of this deck benefiting from free early game damage to the enemy's face. But I'm not quite sure if Defias is replaceable since I'm not at legendary right now :P
I've seen some rogue decks running Southsea Deckhand and I'm pretty fond of this card, partly due with the awkwardness of Defias in many games I've played (i.e. sitting in a hand of coin, SI, Defias and playing against Druid knowing that coining a Defias on turn 1 isn't a huge gain as coining SI on turn 2 killing their X/2). I think Deckhand might also be another way to play more tightly since it's 1-mana, providing you with some pretty critical plays that would otherwise be awkward if deckhand was in your hand, and also avoiding those awkward moments where you are reluctant to play Defias hoping to wait to gain value, and realizing you have to just play it for the 2/2 anyway before it becomes irrelevant.
Turn 2 dagger, Turn 3 hasted Deckhand + Juggler
Turn 2/3 dagger, Turn 4 hasted Deckhand + SI
I like that the haste actually is relevant and doesn't become dead in the late game. Most games, I feel Defias ends up doing an average of 4 damage, and I think Deckhand might be capable around an average of 2-4. I feel that Defias shines when your opponents can't deal with it, and you have basically free damage for 1-2 turns which can easily add up to 4-8 damage, but we don't see those situations in games where we're behind. Any thoughts?
I see the value of Knife + Defias with 4 mana, but that combination on turn 4 still seems a little slow. Like what xctu said, it depends on which deck you're playing against. Most decks will have some form of answer to that combination that will net them card advantage (not to mention, adding to the list of creatures you've played before turn 4).
Off the top of my head:
Wild Pyromancer + Spell (kills all)
Consecration (kills all)
Swipe (Leaves a 2/2)
Wrath + Druid Hero Power (leaves a 2/2)
From what I was testing (keeping in mind of the concept of 'win-more'), I think if your opponent cannot deal with Knife Juggler and Defias, that's equivalent to saying that he is unable to deal with a board of 3/2, 2/2, 2/1 on turn 4, which basically means that you're guaranteed the win no matter what those cards could be due to the nature of this deck benefiting from free early game damage to the enemy's face. But I'm not quite sure if Defias is replaceable since I'm not at legendary right now :P
I've seen some rogue decks running Southsea Deckhand and I'm pretty fond of this card, partly due with the awkwardness of Defias in many games I've played (i.e. sitting in a hand of coin, SI, Defias and playing against Druid knowing that coining a Defias on turn 1 isn't a huge gain as coining SI on turn 2 killing their X/2). I think Deckhand might also be another way to play more tightly since it's 1-mana, providing you with some pretty critical plays that would otherwise be awkward if deckhand was in your hand, and also avoiding those awkward moments where you are reluctant to play Defias hoping to wait to gain value, and realizing you have to just play it for the 2/2 anyway before it becomes irrelevant.
Turn 2 dagger, Turn 3 hasted Deckhand + Juggler
Turn 2/3 dagger, Turn 4 hasted Deckhand + SI
I like that the haste actually is relevant and doesn't become dead in the late game. Most games, I feel Defias ends up doing an average of 4 damage, and I think Deckhand might be capable around an average of 2-4. I feel that Defias shines when your opponents can't deal with it, and you have basically free damage for 1-2 turns which can easily add up to 4-8 damage, but we don't see those situations in games where we're behind. Any thoughts?
I never liked Deckhand but you make some convincing points
I wouldn't use shadowstep it is a dead card 90% of the time
Hmm...perhaps subbing in a shiv for more draw and damage? Once I shadow stepped a minion I stole with Windrunner to get it back to full hp and replay it. That was kind of cool haha.
would hungry crab instead of squire give this a fighting chance against murlocs?
Don't change anything, the deck is fine against murlocs. Mulligan for removal, kill things with your dagger, pray for Defender of Argus.
Agreed, In the match up you need to know when to wait and take a hit and when to make your moves takes real skill I think :)
@Murlocks: This is a tough matchup but I still find it in our favor. You need to mulligan aggressively for Backstab and SI:7 Agents (although this can be too slow if you don't have other removal). Get an early dagger and Ringleader is great for extra removal. You need to control turns 1-4 before it gets out of hand. When they are at the point of using hero power to amass the next wave, you HAVE to build up into bigger taunt creatures or have bigger bodies by simply dropping DID for trades while keeping a board presence. You cannot afford to standback playing the control role since their eventual card advantage and larger murloc board will overrun you. The matchup is actually not too bad unless they have multiple Blood Imps. This is the nightmare and toughest to deal with since your removals are not as effective and you can't trade up, nor pressure them. I've won a game against double blood imps surviving 3 waves, only because the murlock player got greedy and tried to win faster with attacking with his imps when I was at 7. If he had waited for 3-4 turns, he would overrun me regardless.
This deck took me from Rank 10 to 4, and has been a great exercise of improving as a Hearthstone player. I used to play as Mage/Warlock and always respected Rogue players since I think Rogues are better players since they don't necessarily have the unfair cards that other classes do (their cards are simple mechanics), but playing and reserving cards in the right order while considering board/card/life advantage is deadly.
One of the issues that I personally have been struggling is Defias Ringleader. I almost never want to see it in my turn 1 opening, and going second sometimes involve weighing against coining 3-mana turn 2 drops (SI: 7 Agent or SSC or Golems). In your list, I do like the fact that the synergize nicely with Knife Jugglers, but I've always found opponents removing Knife Jugglers in any deck accept Mage with Mirror Image. Can you provide advice on when do you play Knife Jugglers/Ringleaders? e.g. in terms of coining turn 1 Jugglers and Ringleaders, which presents more value, especially against decks that have hero abilities that can minimize the gains from your plays e.g. Rogue/Mage/Druid.
Another line of play that I'm executing although I'm not sure if I'm doing this right, is that I tend to avoid playing Loot Hoarders and Ringleaders against opponents that have an Argent Squire out. I know this slows down the deck's aggressiveness but I'm not willing to give them a slight gain by simply losing a 2/1 in the process. What I usually end up in this case is to get my daggers skipping my 2-drop and clear out the Squire and delaying my plays a turn or 2. Is this the right line of play?
Overall, playing Rogue really improves your skill in the game since you have to analyze your options for maximum future gain. And Leeroy Jenkins is almost irreplaceable. I just crafted him yesterday. The one copy of Shadowstep is what I run with as well. It's great for recycling Argent Commander, DID and provides the last gas you need when you bounce Argent Commander and Leeroy Jenkins back to your hand to set up for a safe finish (dodging removal). Jenkins + Shadowstep = 12 damage for 6 mana. I usually end up saving Jenkins + Eviscerate (10 damage) or Jenkins + Shadowstep (12 damage) in my final turns.
Honestly, I feel the exact same way about Defias Ringleader. Lately, it's been in my mind to cut him, but I'm not sure if thats correct, I just feel like he's the weakest card in the deck very often.
I do play against Argent Squire like that, holding off my threats for a turn and using the hero power to take it out.
As for playing Juggler, it depends on the matchup and my hand and overall gameplan. If I have other plays, I'll sometimes hold him out until turn 4 to play Juggler+Ringleader in the hopes of getting some CA and tempo out of it, but more often i'll just play him on turn 1 or 2 and let my opponent scramble to answer him immediately (which they always do). That obviously doesn't mean playing him into a Loot Hoarder or something, but i'll trade him for a Wrath.
I wonder how this deck would fare without a defias. I too find myself disliking him most of the time.
What other 2 drop is comparable though? My immediate thought is Faerie Dragon.
I love dropping Defias when I have a knife juggler, though! It's like an SI:7, but random.
I see the value of Knife + Defias with 4 mana, but that combination on turn 4 still seems a little slow. Like what xctu said, it depends on which deck you're playing against. Most decks will have some form of answer to that combination that will net them card advantage (not to mention, adding to the list of creatures you've played before turn 4).
Off the top of my head:
From what I was testing (keeping in mind of the concept of 'win-more'), I think if your opponent cannot deal with Knife Juggler and Defias, that's equivalent to saying that he is unable to deal with a board of 3/2, 2/2, 2/1 on turn 4, which basically means that you're guaranteed the win no matter what those cards could be due to the nature of this deck benefiting from free early game damage to the enemy's face. But I'm not quite sure if Defias is replaceable since I'm not at legendary right now :P
I've seen some rogue decks running Southsea Deckhand and I'm pretty fond of this card, partly due with the awkwardness of Defias in many games I've played (i.e. sitting in a hand of coin, SI, Defias and playing against Druid knowing that coining a Defias on turn 1 isn't a huge gain as coining SI on turn 2 killing their X/2). I think Deckhand might also be another way to play more tightly since it's 1-mana, providing you with some pretty critical plays that would otherwise be awkward if deckhand was in your hand, and also avoiding those awkward moments where you are reluctant to play Defias hoping to wait to gain value, and realizing you have to just play it for the 2/2 anyway before it becomes irrelevant.
I like that the haste actually is relevant and doesn't become dead in the late game. Most games, I feel Defias ends up doing an average of 4 damage, and I think Deckhand might be capable around an average of 2-4. I feel that Defias shines when your opponents can't deal with it, and you have basically free damage for 1-2 turns which can easily add up to 4-8 damage, but we don't see those situations in games where we're behind. Any thoughts?
Great points. I'm going to try it out.
I never liked Deckhand but you make some convincing points
What i could use instead of Sylvanas? ( i only have leeroy and blood mage thalnos )
I wouldn't use shadowstep it is a dead card 90% of the time
Hmm...perhaps subbing in a shiv for more draw and damage?
Once I shadow stepped a minion I stole with Windrunner to get it back to full hp and replay it. That was kind of cool haha.
Shiv is also bad
What would you recommend in place of a shadowstep then? Maybe fan of knives for more AoE?
I could see it being useful with the amount of warlock minion heavy rush decks around.
Yeah but it takes up to much of your mana to early put a SSC or a DID
Easy, use a Deadly Poison with a Blade Flurry. Problem solved.
I don't even run any AoE in my rogue deck and it has a 100% win ratio on Warlocks
I don't even use my hero power ever with my rogue deck and it has a 100% win ratio against everybody
If you wouldn't mind could you post your rogue deck that you used to get to rank 12 legend also?