Just a few things I noticed: Your only source of taunt is the druid of the claw. Since they're your only source of taunt, you're losing out on the flexibility using bear or cat form because you basically always have to go bear. I'm also not a big fan of the doomsayer. And you have 2 legendaries in your deck, so I'm assuming that money isn't an issue. If that's the case, why no Cenarius ?
Not meaning to delve away from the discussion of his Druid deck, but why no Healing Touch? My first deck was Druid, and Healing Touch saved my bacon a number of times. Granted -- this was my first deck when I was learning the game, so as you progress into higher levels it may lose it's usefulness. Just curious as to why it's frowned upon.
2 Azure drakes, drop healing touch run 2 wild growths drop doomsayer make a cenarius. Overall its pretty different than my druid deck but the fundamentals are ok.
Alright here are my suggestions. your deck is not by any means, but this is what i would change.
1) remove doomsayer. I understand why hes in here, just to stall out to your mid-game which is your strong point, but its not worth it. faerie dragon number 2 would accomplish basically the same thing,
2) you need a second wrath, and maybe even 2 claws. Since we agreed that your strongest point is mid-game, these cards let you get rid of any early game threat that can win the game outright (knife juggler, faerie dragon(claw), pint sized summoner, mana wyrm, northsire cleric, etc.). What to replace for these cards would in my opinion be pint sized summoner and the 2 healing touches. I understand healing is underrated, but the next suggestion will take care of that.
3) Ancient of lore. one of the best druid cards in the game. Not only is it a 2 card draw with a 5/5 body, but many times the healing on it can save your life. It has a bit of a higher mana cost, but i dont think that should matter much in this type of deck. I suggest removing 1 nourish and illidan for two ancient of lores, or just a nourish if you wanna run only 1 (Obviously i suggest running 2).
4) Since your 2 drops are looking better now, maybe you would want to try exchanging the 2 mark of the wilds for 2 defender of argus, or 1 of each. This should smooth out the curve a little bit, and nothing is more terrifying than yetix2+argus :P
5) I would suggest removing the second nourish for a second azure drake. They accomplish the same thing (extra draw power), but azure drake trades 1 card for a 4/4 body and spellpower (which is godly in this type of deck).
6) Finally, to try and smooth the curve just a little bit by adding in another 3 mana card, while solving the heavy removal that your deck lacks, I suggest adding in 1 big game hunter. You could try removing one of the previously mentioned argus, or the acidic swamp ooze (thats what i suggest, because while killing a weapon is VERY nice, its too niche of a card to be worth playing in your deck. It is more a side card).
Thank you for all the suggestions, I was not planning on spending any more money on cards but I have around 1500 essences that I will put to use.
Playing without Healing Touch will feel weird being used to a Priest but I see that it's more efficient spending the mana and cards on avoiding the damage an applying more pressure.
Dont forget, ancient of lore accomplishes the same thing as healing touch, but happens to also have a 5/5 body that needs to be dealt with for the opponent. Also, to a lesser extent, your hero power and the 2 claws are some type of "healing"
A single Healing Touch is excellent if you have the draw power to make up for the negative value and the board clear to follow it up. Nothing safer than an extra 8 health. A decent alternative can be Bite, otherwise, nothing too fancy if you want to use Claws or AoL - but that's pretty late into the game and does nothing to help you from losing against a full board, just against burn. Your deck looks okay, albeit a bit unconventional with Illidan and no real transition to late game with board clear, but you can fix that up with a little Spell Damage if you're not seeing results against a full board. Druids aren't a weapon class, so you don't really get to see free sequential clear with something played last turn like as Truesilvers. This does mean you need more options for board clear seeing as Druids do already have heavy single target removal.
My question to you, is, how do you plan to win? What is the deck trying to accomplish with the set of cards and options at its disposal? Is there a concrete game plan to your deck or are you just trying to win with good cards? It's an important question to answer and provide some methodology to building your deck. Then you build around this concept and start to explore synergy without the deck.
I see your point that Healing Touch puts mental pressure on your opponent while still having board control and a couple of cards in your hand, BUT:
in 95% of the times Healing Touch is a dead card. If you are already behind, 8 more life for 3 Mana only buys you another round while your opponent is filling his side of the board with minions. If you are in the lead Healing Touch grants you a nice little boost but doesnt really put any more pressure on the board. If you are in a heads-on-heads situation you dont want to draw Healing Touch as it doesnt help you on the board. I think we both agree that 2x Healing Touch is a total overkill. 1 might be acceptable and if someone wants to play it, then go ahead and do it. But Healing Touch never has been and never will be played in a competitive game since Warcraft TCG.
I would rather draw another Wrath for speed or to kill a minion.
The ONLY situation I can think of where I would not mind drawing Healing Touch is when I have 11 hp or less and I m facing a Mage ;-)
My question to you, is, how do you plan to win? What is the deck trying to accomplish with the set of cards and options at its disposal? Is there a concrete game plan to your deck or are you just trying to win with good cards? It's an important question to answer and provide some methodology to building your deck. Then you build around this concept and start to explore synergy without the deck.
The reason I started to build a Druid deck was because he feels flexible. I prefer to play with cards that are strong by them self or flexible I don't like to play combo decks where I have to land certain cards in order to success
The main purpose is to take board control and slowly pummel the opponent down. If I get bad luck during the start with cards I want to be able to wipe his board with starfall/swipe and restart the board.
Feel free to! My reasoning is due to my experiences with it, Healing Touch has been the single most annoying "surprise!" card against Druids, games where I've tried to overextend and rush him down for the win have been met with Healing Touch more than once. At a cheap 3 mana, there's so much left in a single turn that you can do. In my opinion, a single dead card means nothing to Druid for a class with so much draw power; in my own Druid deck, Alexstrasza can be as much of a dead card as Healing Touch in some games. Not every card will be useful in every situation, but it's important to have a safety net. Ancient of the Lore, at 7 mana, forces you to use much of your turn for him to heal and at the cost of not drawing 2 cards. Healing Touch can be played with any of your spells or AoE. I do think you put 95% as a bit high! Maybe having a Healing Touch could open up a decision to attack into that 6/1 buffed creature for a free trade. I think our perfect compromise are cards like Claw and Bite.
As for Wrath, yes, definitely two of them. And in response to your win condition, maybe you want stronger AoE to really set in stone your board control, make sure you can deal with practically anything they can throw out, Nourish for insane card advantage, and take the game from there. With that in mind, I suggest these changes: -1 Doomsayer, +1 Kobold Geomancer -1 Pint-Sized Summoner, +1 Kobold Geomancer -1 Healing Touch, +1 Wrath -1 Mark of the Wild, +1 Azure Drake
These leaves you with one Mark of the Wild, one Healing Touch, and one Nourish. The three of which you can decide to do something with later if you wish. If you find that last Healing Touch to be lacking, you may choose to use Bite, 4 eHP, Armor doesn't cap so there's always use, and a deadly 4 attack. These changes provide an overall consistency to your deck and leave it less prone to some removals and silences. Spell Damage is amazing on Druid, that's all I can really tell you. You can, in theory, easily Nourish one turn without fear if you have some spells in your hand because not much on the board will matter with the spell damage you're packing. Another suggestion I can recommend is Naturalize, the card requires some expertise to use, but the pay-offs are tremendous.
I have tested out just about any combination of druid decks out there. To be fair, both of you are right. Healing touch is both good and bad. Will it save you when you have the board disadvantage? no. Will it stop OTK (warrior charge, unleash the hounds, etc.) decks? definitly not. But can it win you the game in burndown situations late game? very much so.
The thing about healing touch is, while it is only 3 mana cost, it is a late game card. It should never be used before 8-10 mana, and even then, only when you are in danger of being burned down. Against many rogue/mage/druids, being under 10-15hp can mean they can just use spells to finish you off, and in many cases, these classes will rush you down and ignore your minions when they know they have a kill opportunity. Thats when it comes in handy. For example, using ancient of lore + healing touch gets you back 13 health, which often can lead to winning a lost game
That being said, i personally opted to not run healing touch, as while its uses are good, i find it is way too situational to be ran in a deck on a consistent basis (somewhat like ooze. amazing card, but not worth the slot in "most" decks).
as for the other points, spellpower is indeed amazing for druid, id say even the best for druid. the main reason is that we have many low-mid power spells, rather than a few strong ones. 1 spellpower doubles the AOE potential of swipe, makes wrath kill most 4 mana creatures (minus yeti/drake/other high health), and im sure you see where im going with this. So yes i would definitly suggest two wrath, two starfall, two starfire, two swipe. Because of that, i think azure drake deserves a place in most druid decks, and to a lesser extent, as does kobold geomancer.
as for bite, while i do think its a good card, i think the savagery nerf hit it too hard. in essence its 4 mana for 4 dmg and 4 heal. its not terrible, but its definitly not that amazing, especially since you cant attack twice with your hero even if you use two bites, or a claw + bite. (as in, use bite, attack, use claw). This limits the plays you can make somewhat, and it drains most of your energy for below the curve damage. On the other hand, claw is a card i would definitly suggest. half the dmg and healing of bite, for one fourth of the cost. it, along with wrath, ensures you can get to mid game easily without being overrun.
Nourish is a card i used to run 2 of in my druid decks, but the more i played, the more i realized, that using 5 mana on card draw at any point other than pure late game, usually ends in your defeat. imagine if it is turn 5-6, and your opponent does nothing, leaves the board as is. Sounds like he just gave you advantage right? well thats the problem with nourish. the card draw is amazing, but it has a pretty high mana cost, which makes you lose momentum. Nourish is good because when you already HAVE momentum, it lets you refresh your hand for more threats, but unless you have the board control, it ends up being a dead card.
as for naturalize, i really hate the card. In theory, it can come in handy, for the one scenario where you NEED to remove one minion to win, but most of the time, it ends up as a dead card in your hand, just waiting for the perfect moment. A great alternative to naturalize is big game hunter. It accomplishes the same goal, with a bit more strict of a requirement, but it provides you with a 4/2 body, which while easy to kill, forces a reaction, is very cheap, and does not grant your opponent extra cards. It definitly can not kill ysera or malygos (the only two cards that make me wish i had naturalize in hand) but I believe big game hunter is better in most cases, and it fills the 3 mana slot that druids are rather lackluster in.
Obviously this is all just my opinion, but an opinion forged through several months of playtesting/experience with nothing but the druid class.
Hello
So I've started playing Druid (and Paladin) after playing only priest and could really use some pointers to my deck.
Best regards
Tuonn
Just a few things I noticed: Your only source of taunt is the druid of the claw. Since they're your only source of taunt, you're losing out on the flexibility using bear or cat form because you basically always have to go bear. I'm also not a big fan of the doomsayer. And you have 2 legendaries in your deck, so I'm assuming that money isn't an issue. If that's the case, why no Cenarius ?
Healing Touch - NO!
- Luck never gives. It only lends - Nat Pagle
Not meaning to delve away from the discussion of his Druid deck, but why no Healing Touch? My first deck was Druid, and Healing Touch saved my bacon a number of times. Granted -- this was my first deck when I was learning the game, so as you progress into higher levels it may lose it's usefulness. Just curious as to why it's frowned upon.
2 Azure drakes, drop healing touch run 2 wild growths drop doomsayer make a cenarius. Overall its pretty different than my druid deck but the fundamentals are ok.
Alright here are my suggestions. your deck is not by any means, but this is what i would change.
1) remove doomsayer. I understand why hes in here, just to stall out to your mid-game which is your strong point, but its not worth it. faerie dragon number 2 would accomplish basically the same thing,
2) you need a second wrath, and maybe even 2 claws. Since we agreed that your strongest point is mid-game, these cards let you get rid of any early game threat that can win the game outright (knife juggler, faerie dragon(claw), pint sized summoner, mana wyrm, northsire cleric, etc.). What to replace for these cards would in my opinion be pint sized summoner and the 2 healing touches. I understand healing is underrated, but the next suggestion will take care of that.
3) Ancient of lore. one of the best druid cards in the game. Not only is it a 2 card draw with a 5/5 body, but many times the healing on it can save your life. It has a bit of a higher mana cost, but i dont think that should matter much in this type of deck. I suggest removing 1 nourish and illidan for two ancient of lores, or just a nourish if you wanna run only 1 (Obviously i suggest running 2).
4) Since your 2 drops are looking better now, maybe you would want to try exchanging the 2 mark of the wilds for 2 defender of argus, or 1 of each. This should smooth out the curve a little bit, and nothing is more terrifying than yetix2+argus :P
5) I would suggest removing the second nourish for a second azure drake. They accomplish the same thing (extra draw power), but azure drake trades 1 card for a 4/4 body and spellpower (which is godly in this type of deck).
6) Finally, to try and smooth the curve just a little bit by adding in another 3 mana card, while solving the heavy removal that your deck lacks, I suggest adding in 1 big game hunter. You could try removing one of the previously mentioned argus, or the acidic swamp ooze (thats what i suggest, because while killing a weapon is VERY nice, its too niche of a card to be worth playing in your deck. It is more a side card).
I hope my suggestions help you out =)
Thank you for all the suggestions, I was not planning on spending any more money on cards but I have around 1500 essences that I will put to use.
Playing without Healing Touch will feel weird being used to a Priest but I see that it's more efficient spending the mana and cards on avoiding the damage an applying more pressure.
Dont forget, ancient of lore accomplishes the same thing as healing touch, but happens to also have a 5/5 body that needs to be dealt with for the opponent. Also, to a lesser extent, your hero power and the 2 claws are some type of "healing"
A single Healing Touch is excellent if you have the draw power to make up for the negative value and the board clear to follow it up. Nothing safer than an extra 8 health. A decent alternative can be Bite, otherwise, nothing too fancy if you want to use Claws or AoL - but that's pretty late into the game and does nothing to help you from losing against a full board, just against burn. Your deck looks okay, albeit a bit unconventional with Illidan and no real transition to late game with board clear, but you can fix that up with a little Spell Damage if you're not seeing results against a full board. Druids aren't a weapon class, so you don't really get to see free sequential clear with something played last turn like as Truesilvers. This does mean you need more options for board clear seeing as Druids do already have heavy single target removal.
My question to you, is, how do you plan to win? What is the deck trying to accomplish with the set of cards and options at its disposal? Is there a concrete game plan to your deck or are you just trying to win with good cards? It's an important question to answer and provide some methodology to building your deck. Then you build around this concept and start to explore synergy without the deck.
http://www.youtube.com/user/vtxaishi
You're not going crazy, I edit 2~3 times each post
I want to disagree here Aishi.
I see your point that Healing Touch puts mental pressure on your opponent while still having board control and a couple of cards in your hand, BUT:
in 95% of the times Healing Touch is a dead card. If you are already behind, 8 more life for 3 Mana only buys you another round while your opponent is filling his side of the board with minions. If you are in the lead Healing Touch grants you a nice little boost but doesnt really put any more pressure on the board. If you are in a heads-on-heads situation you dont want to draw Healing Touch as it doesnt help you on the board. I think we both agree that 2x Healing Touch is a total overkill. 1 might be acceptable and if someone wants to play it, then go ahead and do it. But Healing Touch never has been and never will be played in a competitive game since Warcraft TCG.
I would rather draw another Wrath for speed or to kill a minion.
The ONLY situation I can think of where I would not mind drawing Healing Touch is when I have 11 hp or less and I m facing a Mage ;-)
- Luck never gives. It only lends - Nat Pagle
The reason I started to build a Druid deck was because he feels flexible. I prefer to play with cards that are strong by them self or flexible I don't like to play combo decks where I have to land certain cards in order to success
The main purpose is to take board control and slowly pummel the opponent down. If I get bad luck during the start with cards I want to be able to wipe his board with starfall/swipe and restart the board.
Feel free to! My reasoning is due to my experiences with it, Healing Touch has been the single most annoying "surprise!" card against Druids, games where I've tried to overextend and rush him down for the win have been met with Healing Touch more than once. At a cheap 3 mana, there's so much left in a single turn that you can do. In my opinion, a single dead card means nothing to Druid for a class with so much draw power; in my own Druid deck, Alexstrasza can be as much of a dead card as Healing Touch in some games. Not every card will be useful in every situation, but it's important to have a safety net. Ancient of the Lore, at 7 mana, forces you to use much of your turn for him to heal and at the cost of not drawing 2 cards. Healing Touch can be played with any of your spells or AoE. I do think you put 95% as a bit high! Maybe having a Healing Touch could open up a decision to attack into that 6/1 buffed creature for a free trade. I think our perfect compromise are cards like Claw and Bite.
As for Wrath, yes, definitely two of them. And in response to your win condition, maybe you want stronger AoE to really set in stone your board control, make sure you can deal with practically anything they can throw out, Nourish for insane card advantage, and take the game from there. With that in mind, I suggest these changes:
-1 Doomsayer, +1 Kobold Geomancer
-1 Pint-Sized Summoner, +1 Kobold Geomancer
-1 Healing Touch, +1 Wrath
-1 Mark of the Wild, +1 Azure Drake
These leaves you with one Mark of the Wild, one Healing Touch, and one Nourish. The three of which you can decide to do something with later if you wish. If you find that last Healing Touch to be lacking, you may choose to use Bite, 4 eHP, Armor doesn't cap so there's always use, and a deadly 4 attack. These changes provide an overall consistency to your deck and leave it less prone to some removals and silences. Spell Damage is amazing on Druid, that's all I can really tell you. You can, in theory, easily Nourish one turn without fear if you have some spells in your hand because not much on the board will matter with the spell damage you're packing. Another suggestion I can recommend is Naturalize, the card requires some expertise to use, but the pay-offs are tremendous.
http://www.youtube.com/user/vtxaishi
You're not going crazy, I edit 2~3 times each post
I have tested out just about any combination of druid decks out there. To be fair, both of you are right. Healing touch is both good and bad. Will it save you when you have the board disadvantage? no. Will it stop OTK (warrior charge, unleash the hounds, etc.) decks? definitly not. But can it win you the game in burndown situations late game? very much so.
The thing about healing touch is, while it is only 3 mana cost, it is a late game card. It should never be used before 8-10 mana, and even then, only when you are in danger of being burned down. Against many rogue/mage/druids, being under 10-15hp can mean they can just use spells to finish you off, and in many cases, these classes will rush you down and ignore your minions when they know they have a kill opportunity. Thats when it comes in handy. For example, using ancient of lore + healing touch gets you back 13 health, which often can lead to winning a lost game
That being said, i personally opted to not run healing touch, as while its uses are good, i find it is way too situational to be ran in a deck on a consistent basis (somewhat like ooze. amazing card, but not worth the slot in "most" decks).
as for the other points, spellpower is indeed amazing for druid, id say even the best for druid. the main reason is that we have many low-mid power spells, rather than a few strong ones. 1 spellpower doubles the AOE potential of swipe, makes wrath kill most 4 mana creatures (minus yeti/drake/other high health), and im sure you see where im going with this. So yes i would definitly suggest two wrath, two starfall, two starfire, two swipe. Because of that, i think azure drake deserves a place in most druid decks, and to a lesser extent, as does kobold geomancer.
as for bite, while i do think its a good card, i think the savagery nerf hit it too hard. in essence its 4 mana for 4 dmg and 4 heal. its not terrible, but its definitly not that amazing, especially since you cant attack twice with your hero even if you use two bites, or a claw + bite. (as in, use bite, attack, use claw). This limits the plays you can make somewhat, and it drains most of your energy for below the curve damage. On the other hand, claw is a card i would definitly suggest. half the dmg and healing of bite, for one fourth of the cost. it, along with wrath, ensures you can get to mid game easily without being overrun.
Nourish is a card i used to run 2 of in my druid decks, but the more i played, the more i realized, that using 5 mana on card draw at any point other than pure late game, usually ends in your defeat. imagine if it is turn 5-6, and your opponent does nothing, leaves the board as is. Sounds like he just gave you advantage right? well thats the problem with nourish. the card draw is amazing, but it has a pretty high mana cost, which makes you lose momentum. Nourish is good because when you already HAVE momentum, it lets you refresh your hand for more threats, but unless you have the board control, it ends up being a dead card.
as for naturalize, i really hate the card. In theory, it can come in handy, for the one scenario where you NEED to remove one minion to win, but most of the time, it ends up as a dead card in your hand, just waiting for the perfect moment. A great alternative to naturalize is big game hunter. It accomplishes the same goal, with a bit more strict of a requirement, but it provides you with a 4/2 body, which while easy to kill, forces a reaction, is very cheap, and does not grant your opponent extra cards. It definitly can not kill ysera or malygos (the only two cards that make me wish i had naturalize in hand) but I believe big game hunter is better in most cases, and it fills the 3 mana slot that druids are rather lackluster in.
Obviously this is all just my opinion, but an opinion forged through several months of playtesting/experience with nothing but the druid class.
Sorry for the long post :P
I went back and forth on the to healing touch or not question a bit too. My conclusion:
If you play a somewhat slow deck, run 1 healing touch.
If not, no healing touch is needed.
Never run more than 2.