• 6

    posted a message on Card Nerf - Yogg-Saron, Hope's End
    Quote from EveningWood >>
    Quote from iSolidHx >>

    This is the only nerf of this set that I will call idiotic (the execute nerf was unnecessary as well but o well, better nerf control). 

    So the Yogg Nerf:

    We are playing in an absurdly heavy aggro/face meta. Better nerf a 10 mana card that sometimes does nothing useful and sometimes helps your opponent.

    To all those who cry because they lost some games to Yogg and say its a 10 mana battlecry 'Win the game' card: Pause, take a drink to dilute your salt levels, think logically and realise that on average Yogg was only significantly better for the person who played it a little over half the time. I.e. 10 mana for poor stats and a slightly greater than 50% chance for a significant benefit. The other 35-45% containing possibilities ranging from bad, through awful, to lose the game. Sounds pretty balanced to me.

    If you have a problem with people filling their decks with spells/spell generating cards, then once again, stop crying. Filling a deck with low cost minions and going face is considered a viable strategy, so whats wrong with the opposite that is at least more interesting to play with and against as well as to watch?

    Finally the competitive issue that everyone seems to think was an issue: It never even existed. Hearthstone is a card game, and even if there were no rng added through card effects (of which there are many) the greatest and most game deciding rng is contained in what cards you draw at what time. Everyone tolerates this. The degree of randomness brought into a hearthstone game via Yogg is much less than that brought into it via the nature of all card games and that is before the fact that Yogg isn't even in every game, whereas card draw is. The issue is that Yogg's randomness is so much more noticeable, the screen goes purple and tones of cards start popping up, deck shuffling is invisible. The competitive issue was therefore purely psychological and never existed in reality.

    So, we can see that pre-nerf Yogg was perfectly fine. Now lets look at the nerf:

    Potentially the only realistic nerf that would make Yogg more unplayable would have been to make it cost 12 mana so that you would need innervate or two Emperor ticks etc to play it. Yogg is often the very first casualty of its own effect and it is very rare to see it survive its effect if any significant amount of spells have been played. The only reason Yogg was good is that is could fairly reliably clear the board, no matter how much it screwed you over in other matters such as milling cards or damaging your face, and in an aggro/face meta with the fewest good board clears ever, this made it a card worth playing. Now the card text might as well be:

    You are playing a late game deck in an unfriendly meta, should you make it to turn 10 you may now spend your whole turn to play this card. When you play this card the following will likely happen: The card will self-destruct instantly, you may now proceed to lose the game. The card will help your opponent before self-destructing, you may now proceed to lose the game. Should you get lucky the card will help you a little but not enough to make it worth your whole turn, you may now proceed to likely lose the game. Occasionally, should you get very lucky, the card will help you significantly, you can now potentially win the game. Once in a blue moon, when you get incredibly lucky, you will win the game.

    Sounds like one of the worst cards in the game. GG Blizzard, make one of the most fun(ny) cards in the game unplayable. 

    This is so insignificant it barely matters but if you play any other battlecry minion and it then gets silenced, you still got the battlecry effect. Yogg needs to be different why? Makes no sense, final nail in this ridiculous coffin. RIP Yogg, paragon of interesting game design, you shall be missed.

     Are you joking? Being able to lose a game due to such unpredictable and uncontrolable rng (so not sylvanas or rag, that are somewhat controlable) is the epitome of bad design where a card is "fun" only for one player but completely infuriates the other player and makes them feel robbed of victory. See unstable portal, implosion, piloted shredder, tuskarr totemic for an example of other very bad and very infuriating rng cards that don't belong in a game of skill. If you want to complain about something, complain that there's not a control card similar to yogg but with a fixed effect.
     No I'm not joking, see all of the logic laid out in my original post. In said post I specifically addressed your argument but maybe you didn't read it all so here it is again:
    First, in the vast majority of cases Yogg doesn't cause either player to win or lose the game to an extent greater than that which one should expect a 10 mana legendary would. In some cases the person who didn't play it even comes out on top. 
    Secondly, far more games are won or lost on uncontrollable RNG that is known as card draw and yet that is tolerated. It is purely psychological that Yogg causes you to win or lose the game to a greater extent than random card draw because its effect is more noticeable. 
    Third, Yogg is not infuriating for the opposing player assuming that player has a sensible mind. I love it when my opponents play Yogg, I find myself on the edge of my seat, some of the most exiting hearthstone experiences came from that card and that is why it was superb card design that has now been nerfed to unplayability for no good reason.
    Posted in: Card Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on Card Nerf - Execute

    The only nerf worse than this one was Yogg's which made it totally unplayable. This one is completely unnecessary and absurd but execute will probably still see play.

    So execute: 1 mana destroy a damaged minion. 

    Lets look at best case scenario:

    Your opponent has The Ancient One on board, you have Argent Squire opposing it and execute in hand. You attack with argent squire (which you paid 1 mana for and your opponent had a chance to destroy it on their turn) and play execute for another 1 mana to destroy The Ancient One (2 mana and 1 card (could be two cards if your opponent had destroyed the squire and forced you to whirlwind) = destroy a minion)). This is 1 mana less than Shadow Word: Death which nobody thinks is overpowered, but it required an extra card. Sounds pretty balanced to me, and that's the best case scenario. 

    Other possibilities are: Your opponent has The Ancient One and its so late in the game you are both top-decking. You top-deck execute. O wait, it doesn't work, you lose the game. You top-deck Shadow Word: Death, happy days. 

    There are of course innumerable other possible scenarios and sometimes Execute will be better in those than Shadow Word: Death. The point is that even in the best case scenario, neither card is overpowered, and in other scenarios both cards can be useless. This being the case, it is clear that there was no reason to nerf execute, a card which when used at its maximum potential, was still perfectly balanced, and when used (or not used) in other cases, is actually under-powered. The card could cost 0 mana to play and it still wouldn't be game-breaking, strong yes, but not ridiculous. 

    Posted in: Card Discussion
  • 14

    posted a message on Card Nerf - Yogg-Saron, Hope's End

    This is the only nerf of this set that I will call idiotic (the execute nerf was unnecessary as well but o well, better nerf control). 

    So the Yogg Nerf:

    We are playing in an absurdly heavy aggro/face meta. Better nerf a 10 mana card that sometimes does nothing useful and sometimes helps your opponent.

    To all those who cry because they lost some games to Yogg and say its a 10 mana battlecry 'Win the game' card: Pause, take a drink to dilute your salt levels, think logically and realise that on average Yogg was only significantly better for the person who played it a little over half the time. I.e. 10 mana for poor stats and a slightly greater than 50% chance for a significant benefit. The other 35-45% containing possibilities ranging from bad, through awful, to lose the game. Sounds pretty balanced to me.

    If you have a problem with people filling their decks with spells/spell generating cards, then once again, stop crying. Filling a deck with low cost minions and going face is considered a viable strategy, so whats wrong with the opposite that is at least more interesting to play with and against as well as to watch?

    Finally the competitive issue that everyone seems to think was an issue: It never even existed. Hearthstone is a card game, and even if there were no rng added through card effects (of which there are many) the greatest and most game deciding rng is contained in what cards you draw at what time. Everyone tolerates this. The degree of randomness brought into a hearthstone game via Yogg is much less than that brought into it via the nature of all card games and that is before the fact that Yogg isn't even in every game, whereas card draw is. The issue is that Yogg's randomness is so much more noticeable, the screen goes purple and tones of cards start popping up, deck shuffling is invisible. The competitive issue was therefore purely psychological and never existed in reality.

    So, we can see that pre-nerf Yogg was perfectly fine. Now lets look at the nerf:

    Potentially the only realistic nerf that would make Yogg more unplayable would have been to make it cost 12 mana so that you would need innervate or two Emperor ticks etc to play it. Yogg is often the very first casualty of its own effect and it is very rare to see it survive its effect if any significant amount of spells have been played. The only reason Yogg was good is that is could fairly reliably clear the board, no matter how much it screwed you over in other matters such as milling cards or damaging your face, and in an aggro/face meta with the fewest good board clears ever, this made it a card worth playing. Now the card text might as well be:

    You are playing a late game deck in an unfriendly meta, should you make it to turn 10 you may now spend your whole turn to play this card. When you play this card the following will likely happen: The card will self-destruct instantly, you may now proceed to lose the game. The card will help your opponent before self-destructing, you may now proceed to lose the game. Should you get lucky the card will help you a little but not enough to make it worth your whole turn, you may now proceed to likely lose the game. Occasionally, should you get very lucky, the card will help you significantly, you can now potentially win the game. Once in a blue moon, when you get incredibly lucky, you will win the game.

    Sounds like one of the worst cards in the game. GG Blizzard, make one of the most fun(ny) cards in the game unplayable. 

    This is so insignificant it barely matters but if you play any other battlecry minion and it then gets silenced, you still got the battlecry effect. Yogg needs to be different why? Makes no sense, final nail in this ridiculous coffin. RIP Yogg, paragon of interesting game design, you shall be missed.

    Posted in: Card Discussion
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