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  • Skelos_bg's avatar

    1

    Jan 26, 2018
    Skelos_bg posted a message on META makes a boring game long term
    Quote from GMAlon >>

    The players with the highest win rates won't be the best players nor the best deckbuilders, they will be the best at exploiting the matchmaker to match them against easy opponents.

     The best players will be exactly the best deck builders since:
    - You have to learn building optimal decks with available non-meta cards
    - You have to learn to adjust depending how aggro/control oriented are your opponents
     
    And you can't exploit the matchmaking in any way since before starting play you know which of your decks are considered meta. Let's say you have 20 decks prepared with different cards in each. Every hour the meta changes and some of your decks become meta/non-meta and vice versa. However you still don't know how your prepared decks which crushed before, became meta and are non-meta again now will perform against the other non-meta decks currently played. It is highly likely that you'll have to adjust your decks on a daily basis.
    Posted in: General Discussion
  • Skelos_bg's avatar

    1

    Jan 26, 2018
    Skelos_bg posted a message on META makes a boring game long term
    Quote from Dunscot >>
    either reduce the power level of the meta-defining decks, or introduce more cards that can realistically challenge those decks. Or do a bit of both
    I'd love to see that, but it is a LOT harder than the proposed mode in the OP (it also creates problems for the current tournament play since optimally you want to have an average number of meta decks there, not a very high number). Plus they won't go against their power creep philosophy since it makes them cash and strong legendary cards are best sellers.
    @RavenSunHP: No need to argue for the sake of it.
    Posted in: General Discussion
  • Skelos_bg's avatar

    1

    Jan 26, 2018
    Skelos_bg posted a message on META makes a boring game long term

    No, it is not. You can have a competition with off-meta decks - it is perfectly fine.

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • Skelos_bg's avatar

    1

    Jan 26, 2018
    Skelos_bg posted a message on META makes a boring game long term
    Quote from RavenSunHP >>
    But then, what are you being rewarded for?
     Deck building and constantly creating competitive off-meta decks. It is like an Arena without the restriction of picks.
    Posted in: General Discussion
  • Skelos_bg's avatar

    1

    Jan 26, 2018
    Skelos_bg posted a message on META makes a boring game long term
    Quote from YourPrivateNightmare >>

     once you match off-meta decks againsst off-meta decks they will construct their own meta.

    But of course they will - you just continue to match off-meta decks with off-meta decks.
    Class/card ban makes total sense in such format since this makes the spectrum of usable cards larger and further stimulates deck building.
    Posted in: General Discussion
  • Skelos_bg's avatar

    1

    Jan 26, 2018
    Skelos_bg posted a message on META makes a boring game long term
    Quote from DarkpersonEU >>

    Another one more of these people that don't get competitive games in general. Not just hearthstone.

    Dude, this change has the intention to strengthen the competitive deck building. Such ladder won't be about copy/paste anymore. You totally missed the point.
    Posted in: General Discussion
  • Skelos_bg's avatar

    0

    Jan 26, 2018
    Skelos_bg posted a message on New Ranked changes revealed by Ben!
    Quote from RavenSunHP >>

    what i wanted in ladder was a safer climb, even if that took more stars. Less up&downs.

    Well, there are 15 stars between each safe floor. They can't lower that, because luck will heavily influence the climb then. What they can do is:
    - Match the portraits with the safe spots instead of the rank - this reduces the portrait icons from 25 to 5
    - Don't display the current rank if it is not legend, just the icon
    The above cosmetic change achieves a little more privacy - your friends won't notice every up and down you make in the ladder and you should not feel such a burden when dropping a rank.
    Posted in: General Discussion
  • Skelos_bg's avatar

    1

    Jan 26, 2018
    Skelos_bg posted a message on META makes a boring game long term
    Quote from k00l >>
    Quote from Skelos_bg >>

    META decks "kill" all other already released cards in the game and create a boring game without much deck experimenting/building. We need a new mode with the new ladder that is coming later in 2018, which would:

    - Match players with OFF-META decks against others with such

    - Give an option for a class/card ban

    Explanation: A deck has 30 cards. Each card has a percent of usage in the last 24 hours. Your deck is considered a META one if the sum of the percent of usage from your cards goes above a certain number. In this case you will be matched against another META deck.

     No we dont need anything of these..crawl back to your hole
     Why you so scared? Holes scary you?
    Posted in: General Discussion
  • Skelos_bg's avatar

    1

    Jan 26, 2018
    Skelos_bg posted a message on META makes a boring game long term
    Quote from Haussenfuss >>

    crazy off-meta decks regularly use lots of "good" cards, but attempt to exploit the potential design space of those cards in unusual ways. I find it to be the most interesting and alluring aspect of deck-building and playing.

     Crazy off-meta decks will be still off-meta as long as they use a reasonable amount of "good" cards. No troubles here.
    Posted in: General Discussion
  • Skelos_bg's avatar

    1

    Jan 26, 2018
    Skelos_bg posted a message on META makes a boring game long term
    Quote from RavenSunHP >>

    As much as i like homebrewing, what you suggest is yet not fair, within the same ladder.

    Same or different ladder - it doesn't really matter - deck building deserves to be recognized as a major part of the skill game and as I pointed out it is simply not rewarded in the current ranked play mode.
    Posted in: General Discussion
  • Skelos_bg's avatar

    1

    Jan 26, 2018
    Skelos_bg posted a message on META makes a boring game long term
    Quote from Horkinger >>
    Quote from Skelos_bg >>

    Which ladder? The good decks ladder?

    Is that a real question? There is only one ladder: Ranked play mode of course.
    It was a rhetorical question.
    A ladder in a card game could be organized in many ways. Deck building is a skill itself and it is absolutely missing in the current ranked play mode, because everyone picks a META deck and plays it.
    The aim of this thread is to create a different type of ladder, where deck innovation matters most.
    Posted in: General Discussion
  • Skelos_bg's avatar

    1

    Jan 26, 2018
    Skelos_bg posted a message on META makes a boring game long term

    Which ladder? The good decks ladder?

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • Skelos_bg's avatar

    1

    Jan 26, 2018
    Skelos_bg posted a message on META makes a boring game long term

    I disagree, they are.

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • Skelos_bg's avatar

    1

    Jan 26, 2018
    Skelos_bg posted a message on META makes a boring game long term
    Quote from Horkinger >>
    Quote from Skelos_bg >>
    Quote from Horkinger >>
    Quote from Skelos_bg >>
    Quote from Lyra_Silvertongue >>

    You can't prevent metas from forming. 

    Of course you can't. What you can do is match non-meta decks with other non-meta decks and give the players the freedom to choose whether they want to play a meta deck or not. Right now climbing with non-meta deck is extremely hard and not possible for the majority of players.
    But why should someone be able to climb ladder with a competetively bad deck?
     Define bad deck, please. There are not bad and good decks in the game. There are just meta and off-meta decks.
    You can call them what you want, but I think it is pretty clear what I mean with "competetively bad deck". Good decks are meta decks and bad decks are what you call off meta decks. Compared to meta decks, your off-meta decks are performing poorly. Otherwise you wouldn't be complaining about meeting "meta-decks" with them.
    Ok, so your question becomes: "But why should someone be able to climb ladder with an off-meta deck?"
    There are numerous reasons for this:
    - Deck building/experimenting is valued a lot more
    - Games will be a lot more fun since you won't see the same boring decks 24/7
    - Most HS cards become used instead of the 150-200 used in meta decks
     
    In the end please note that this thread does NOT have the intention to devalue META play, it simply has the intention to stimulate NON-META play.
    Posted in: General Discussion
  • Skelos_bg's avatar

    1

    Jan 26, 2018
    Skelos_bg posted a message on META makes a boring game long term
    Quote from Horkinger >>
    Quote from Skelos_bg >>
    Quote from Lyra_Silvertongue >>

    You can't prevent metas from forming. 

    Of course you can't. What you can do is match non-meta decks with other non-meta decks and give the players the freedom to choose whether they want to play a meta deck or not. Right now climbing with non-meta deck is extremely hard and not possible for the majority of players.
    But why should someone be able to climb ladder with a competetively bad deck?
     Define bad deck, please. There are not bad and good decks in the game. There are just meta and off-meta decks.
    Posted in: General Discussion
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