Hearthpwn

Quote from Meat >>

Quote from sPacEtiMe19 >>

Amazing how underestimated this seems to be. 2/1 rush is better than warlocks. It has applications of being better than warriors in that it leaves a body if you don't attack with it. And most importantly, this is tied with warriors as being the best for the early stages of invoke development. This allows you to play those understated invoke minions in the early-mid game while allowing you to help keep aggro at bay. On top of that, two 8/8s with rush essentially says "the board is mine now" save a few situations.

Pretty shocked at the negative reviews on this. Wouldn't be surprised if this ends up being the best galakrond. 

 I don't think it's strong enough to compete with the quest tho

 What makes you think it competes. 4 8/8 rush minions seem pretty good

It should unfreeze minions... At least according to English. Frozen is a noun in this context which implies the state of being frozen won't exist.

Epics are often niche cards.

This also creates the possibility to make your early game neutrals.... Then play this to increase the over all average value of your deck on mid to late game.... 

This is 10 times better than surrender to madness. There is no comparison. As others have mentioned this always ultra cheap decks to ramp minions it also gives boosts to a mid-range deck that uses a lot of early game spell support. Not sure if it's good or not but there is a lot more opportunity with this card and the surrender comparison is an extremely bad one.

Quote from Phoesias >>

and the powercreep goes on and on.

remember Darkshire Alchemist ?

Priest Minion / 4/5 stats for 5 Mana / Restore 5 Health.

 You mean the rarely played card that no longer exists had damage synergy and wasn't even used that much? Yes I do remember that barely relevant piece of trash that had little to do with this new expansion and entirely different meta.

Quote from KazaKazaMDC >>

So basically a Kalimos but for Galakrond? 

 Right. And we all know how powerful kalimos was. This is slightly better though considering it can draw galakrond. Making him more consistent. I actually think it's fine. Galakrond mostly lends to control play. I think people are really overreacting without knowing what the midgsmame aggro  and combo looks like (though galakrond rogue may be the combo)

Quote from 1xbenx1 >>

Quote from Sinner_Tron >>

I disagree woth sindragosa, she is. Not gray in the early game as to get any buff on your minions you can’t buy them until the following turn. She’s too slow and quite weak. I’ve played her twice and won’t again. Played against many who’ve picked her and they all finished in bottom 4. 

 

IDK. You buy minions and tech up as normal while freezing because freezing is free. Assuming you hit 1 or 2 decent minions to buff, it should carry you into the midgame in a good position. In the end game, it has little utility. Maybe people are getting too greedy? You just have to be a little greedy. 2 buffs is more than enough. I usually buy after 1.

 

 Yes she's a little rng we but most early game minions are fine to freeze so she actually had great early game

Jaraxxus is very strong for top 4 if you just get 6 to 7 demons and pump that hero button

I love it. Seems to have an extremely high skill cap. Considering my apm is not great but still winning quite a bit. At 4789 mmr now. Have gone against monster 'meta' boards and won. There is deck tracking,counter  play etc. And bigger isn't always better. Someone buffed their board dramatically agaisnt me and the fight went more towards my side because it his board my stat boosting minion quicker..... And that's just one tiny example of how high the skill cap is

It's a little overwhelming no doubt and it's harder to search for a specific build now. This is a good change because before ppl could often just go down a shopping list on what they need. It takes a little more skill now to whip together a decent warband.

It's a shame i only play on android

Good balances imo. I personally like them. Now we just need Kronx to read "cant be shuffled into your deck" haha. 

I feel like you are underestimating these changes.

To me the problem with Shaman in this meta is the fact that they can summon 2 8/8s on turn 7/8 consistently, not the fact that they can summon 2 8/8. If it happened as 4/4s, or they had to wait until 9/10 mana it wouln't be oppresive.

So nerfing the busted invoke cards they have is the correct move, they can't really "fix" their Galakrond without messing with the flavor of the card (other classes), but as they can invoke x2 and also their Invoke is tempo oriented it's not fair

Also I don't think the Faceless change is enough, they still can trade 1/1 with a giant and that's just not ok.

And when looking at the Fleshaper I've seen people complaining that now it can mutate into Colossus of the Moon. Really? Is that really your concern? Maybe think it is now way more difficult to be played in the first place. Sometimes I feel like we just like complaining no matter what they do.

Though I'm not really satisfied by the nerfs, I commend them for acting quickly. Maybe Blizz is being prudent. I'd rather see swift course corrections (maybe they make another if Shaman is still pushing 60% win rates). Let's see what the deck looks like now.

Quote from Keema >>

Good call by Blizzard, we don't want Shaman dominating two cycles.

That said, their in-house testing must be trash. Anyone with half a brain could have spotted that Shaman would be OP.

 Or maybe their in house testers just don't suck like the forum guys and actually took the time to learn how to beat it?

Quote from sPacEtiMe19 >>

There is obviously synergy between the two, but that does not come without a cost. So let's say you do merge the two ideas. You are going to have to cut a lot of the value generating minions or your tempo based battlecry minions in order to make room for the invoke stuff. So you will either be cutting out your late game value generation, or your late game burst options via those battlecry damage minions. 

Lets say you cut the value and go all in on tempo. You're probably going to do very well with the board leading up to your massive galakrond turn. And yes if the 4 8/8s don't get wiped out that is probably the win. But if this fails, the deck has absolutely zero gas. 

Now let's say you cut your tempo, mutates, direct damage battlecry minions. You'll have a much better time again control, but your aggro matchup is going to become severely worse, and your burst reach will be much lower.

Dont get me wrong, I am no psychic. There may be some perfect balance of both that leads to some insane deck, but I feel people forget how small 30 card decks really are. There are going to be a TON of enticing cards to put into this galakrond hybrid shaman deck, and you won't even come close to fitting them all in.

 You don't have to cut tempo, you just replace it.  Literally Galakrond's invoke generates tempo.  I think the portion of the deck you cut is the evolve portion. As far as it not having legs, you can STILL run Shudderwok.  Who will also generate 8/8 if they do clear your board.  The only potential downside I see here is Obviously after you play Galakrond you don't have double BC anymore.  So you can't just slam him down when you want.  

I mean I think everyone here realizes you can only fit 30 cards in and that the end result isn't the same deck.  But I think the original point stands.  You don't have to choose one or the other, there is a lot of synergy between both.