Hearthpwn

Quote from MYK8283 >>

I was playing Monopoly yesterday. Got two fives and went to jail. I´m asking Hasbro to nerf or remove the number 5 from dice...

 You could do it yourself with a bit of tape and a pen.

Quote from Red1 >>

It doesn’t need to be nerfed or removed, you’re just mad you lost to it. Move on, grow up,

It's currently the 2nd most run card in the game and is in nearly 30% or decks. It's neutral burst which is something Blizzard have repeatedly told us they don't want.

I would say it's probably a good shout for a nerf.

Where is the hyperbole? How am I being ‘knowingly inaccurate’? Why are you accusing me of lying?

I’ve stated what the card does IN SPELL MAGE (actually try reading the posts you’re arguing against before throwing fallacies about) and tried to give a layman's explanation or two of why the card is an issue in that archetype. It’s a very powerful card and a really cheap way of boosting the winrate of a deck they want to be meta viable.

This has obviously triggered something off with you, I’m not sure what or why but maybe try taking a few deep breaths.

You can debate the power level of Auctioneer or Apprentice all you like, I’m not arguing whether they are or are not overpowered. They aren’t really relevant to the problems with RSW.

If we’re at a point where a card that draws 2 cards for absolutely nothing (no mana, cards, or tempo) isn’t overpowered then I believe something has went tragically wrong.

Think of it like this, if there was a 0-mana spell that read “draw a card” it would be in almost every deck. Not because it does anything technically ’powerful’, but because it increases the consistency of the deck. It essentially reduces your deck size from 30 to 28 (as you can put 2 in your deck). Now imagine that was “draw 2 cards”, it would be objectively better than a card which would already be an auto include.

This is what Refreshing Springwater is in Spell Mage. It being restricted to that deck doesn’t make it any less lazy, brainless or broken. It just gives an extra card (at worst) to a mages hand for free and thins their deck.

Gadgetzan is a wincon. It’s a potentially broken card but in general I think it’s good for the game. 

I wouldnt say it is ever useless. Take worst case scenario. You and opponent are on the draw. You draw him and you have a 4/4 in play. The cost is irrelevant since you’re floating 4 mana on that turn anyway. But you are now up on tempo. Sure, its not the best use for him by a long stretch, but he is still useful in that scenario. The only time he is useless is when out of options and facing a board of minions. Even if he is the last card in your deck, he has a usefulness. 

You're really stretching the use of 'useful' here. A 6-mana 4/4 tempo play is horrible in any deck, but especially a heavily spell based Combo deck. I mean it may still win the odd game through tempo alone but it is unlikely. Gadzetzan stays in the hand until you have enough cheap spells to reasonably draw your deck. Before that point he is a dead card in your hand. That's the downside, and it's a pretty big downside.

if RSF is the last card in your deck it is worse than useless. 

I said it's never a dead card in your hand, I never said there were never any situations where the card was useless. I'm sure we can agree that we're really reaching though when the only real downside of a card is that it is useless if it's within the last few cards of your deck (or if you have a full hand).

None of this implies that RSF is any less powerful as a card than it is. Its a very strong card (in the righr situation under the right circumstances, in the right deck built around it). But in those same circumstances Gadget is much stronger. 

Well no, Gadgetzan's power has a much higher ceiling, but that doesn't mean it is a much stronger card. Patches the Pirate wasn't a win condition, he was just a 1/1 with charge, but he was an obscenely broken card. Refreshing Springwater is an obscenely broken card.

Thats the key to this particular point. You cant really cherry pick the dream circumstances for RSF and then say it’s better than a 6 mana 4/4 because its an unfair comparison. 

The 'dream circumstances' are that it gets played in a deck which Blizzard have specifically designed to be meta viable. A situation where this card is a literal Pot of Greed meme.

Let me finally just say that all of this comes off the back of the original claim that RSF lets you pretty much draw through your whole deck. My point is that no, it doesnt, but even if it did there are already cards/mechanics that do just this - and with much less set up / deck requirements - which people dont feel are a problem. 

Refreshing Springwater doesn't let you draw your deck, in fact it's effect seems quite mild, I mean it's just drawing 2 cards, like how Patches was just a 1/1 with Charge. A card having deck building requirements doesn't make it balanced, fun, or fair. You can use these same arguments against Gadzetzan if you wish but I really don't see it.

Blizzard do this all the time, the break cards in order to push an archetype. I just find it to be a cheap and uninteresting way to balance a card game.

See the attachment.

Refreshing Springwater requires no setup or anything, it's just a free draw 2 when placed in the deck it was designed for. If you have Enchanters Flow played then it gains mana (literally a 0-mana "draw 2 cards and gain X mana" at that point), but that's about it when it comes to deciding when to play the card. It adds nothing to the game other than boosting the power level of a deck Blizzard wanted to promote. There's no subtlety, very little in the way of interaction, it's never a dead card in your hand post turn 3, it's just completely busted.

Although Gadgetzan has far bigger payoffs it actually requires the player to make sacrifices in the turns leading up to dropping it as they have to decide which spells they need to pop off, can they use the coin or do they need it for draw? etc... Don't get me wrong, Gadgetzan is a risky card that can lead to unintended and broken interactions, but design wise it's fair. Saying it has no bad downside is just not true, it's a 6-mana 4/4 - if you cannot go off with it the card is usually completely useless.

In short, Gadgetzan is a great card imo, it promotes interesting deck building and because of it we see some really cool things. It occasionally breaks due to mana cheating. 

Refreshing Springwater is a 'free win' card that just boosts the win rate of Spell Mage decks. That's it really.

One way of doing this is to make decks in a deck builder outside of Hearthstone and import it into game. The cards you need will be greyed out.

Why you cannot do this in game without the aid of a 3rd party builder is beyond me.

Playing agains Face Hunter is a blessing compared to Stealth Rogue and Aggro DH of the last expansion.

I don’t mind losing by turn 5 to an aggro deck, but losing by turn 12 after clearing their board and weapons a half dozen times was slightly aggravating.

I’ve honestly never understood the hate Face Hunter gets, we need hyper aggro decks and the alternatives we get are usually always a lot worse.

Quote from Kinkyjohnfowler >>

What’s the win rate and at what rank?

I might give the list a go but don’t have shadowy figures I don’t believe so would only craft them if the stats are positive.

 Tempo and Priest are in the name, it has to be Bronze 10. 

SO sick of all the copy effects in totem shaman. How do you even get ahead of that deck?

And it has an insane win condition with even a handful of minions on board in bloodlust. Christ.

Also counterspell is still a fucking bullshit card. Completely ridiculous. How has it been in the game for six years? How has freezing trap been in the game for 6 years? Almost every other secret is fine, or has good value or is tricky. These just completely shut down whatever you're doing and cost you games if you can't play around them.

Fucking sick of it.