Rogues and Druids (and to a lesser extent Warlocks) have been doing the deck cycling thing for a long time in previous expansions - Gadgetzan Auctioneer has been a central figure in that regard for a long time.
That said, the OP Post probably belongs in the Salt thread, but I'll let it be for the moment and see how this progresses.
hey guys, lets not talk about an oppressive unfun deck that ruins standard which blizzard had the opportunity to nerf but could not understand that refreshing spring water is a ridiculously OP card. Let's keep those posts in the nerd rage ghetto so people are not confronted with things like this.
Also, if you think Gadgeteer is similar to RSW in power level.......just lol.
Oh, you're saying you WANT this kind of discussion to be curtailed and ignored, and not given the reasonable benefit of the doubt - you know, like I LITERALLY just did right there? Maybe rethink your opinion on that one? You seemed to respond in haste.
Also, nobody compared power levels of anything, merely mechanics and decks that use that sort of mechanic. (Or specifically, a card that allows them to). Honestly, if you're not even going to read the posts properly.... yikes...!
/smh
so why throw out a comparison that you now admit is invalid?
The comparison is perfectly valid. Your assertion that my example was about power levels of the cards is not. Thats the point.
Actually, that said, Gadgetzan actually dwarfs RSF’s power level considerably, so your argument would have been hopelessly incorrect in any case. Gadgetzan has use in so many more situations, AND is a neutral card AND does not have a bad downside AND actually does allow you to draw your whole deck whereas RSF draws two cards, possibly for worse cost than Arcane Intellect.
The more you consider the actual facts of the two cards, the more you would have to admit that Gadgetzan is a MUCH more powerful card overall.
Refreshing Springwater requires no setup or anything, it's just a free draw 2 when placed in the deck it was designed for. If you have Enchanters Flow played then it gains mana (literally a 0-mana "draw 2 cards and gain X mana" at that point), but that's about it when it comes to deciding when to play the card. It adds nothing to the game other than boosting the power level of a deck Blizzard wanted to promote. There's no subtlety, very little in the way of interaction, it's never a dead card in your hand post turn 3, it's just completely busted.
Although Gadgetzan has far bigger payoffs it actually requires the player to make sacrifices in the turns leading up to dropping it as they have to decide which spells they need to pop off, can they use the coin or do they need it for draw? etc... Don't get me wrong, Gadgetzan is a risky card that can lead to unintended and broken interactions, but design wise it's fair. Saying it has no bad downside is just not true, it's a 6-mana 4/4 - if you cannot go off with it the card is usually completely useless.
In short, Gadgetzan is a great card imo, it promotes interesting deck building and because of it we see some really cool things. It occasionally breaks due to mana cheating.
Refreshing Springwater is a 'free win' card that just boosts the win rate of Spell Mage decks. That's it really.
I wouldnt say it is ever useless. Take worst case scenario. You and opponent are on the draw. You draw him and you have a 4/4 in play. The cost is irrelevant since you’re floating 4 mana on that turn anyway. But you are now up on tempo. Sure, its not the best use for him by a long stretch, but he is still useful in that scenario. The only time he is useless is when out of options and facing a board of minions. Even if he is the last card in your deck, he has a usefulness.
if RSF is the last card in your deck it is worse than useless.
None of this implies that RSF is any less powerful as a card than it is. Its a very strong card (in the righr situation under the right circumstances, in the right deck built around it). But in those same circumstances Gadget is much stronger.
Thats the key to this particular point. You cant really cherry pick the dream circumstances for RSF and then say it’s better than a 6 mana 4/4 because its an unfair comparison.
Let me finally just say that all of this comes off the back of the original claim that RSF lets you pretty much draw through your whole deck. My point is that no, it doesnt, but even if it did there are already cards/mechanics that do just this - and with much less set up / deck requirements - which people dont feel are a problem.
OP here, after thinking about it a bit and reading the comments, I guess I shouldn't have a problem with the Spell Mage decks. I guess I'm just kind of confused about the fact Dirty Rat and/or Hecklebot haven't made a return to the wild meta. They would completely shit on both Mozaki, Master Duelist and Flamewaker OTK Spell Mage.
I wouldnt say it is ever useless. Take worst case scenario. You and opponent are on the draw. You draw him and you have a 4/4 in play. The cost is irrelevant since you’re floating 4 mana on that turn anyway. But you are now up on tempo. Sure, its not the best use for him by a long stretch, but he is still useful in that scenario. The only time he is useless is when out of options and facing a board of minions. Even if he is the last card in your deck, he has a usefulness.
You're really stretching the use of 'useful' here. A 6-mana 4/4 tempo play is horrible in any deck, but especially a heavily spell based Combo deck. I mean it may still win the odd game through tempo alone but it is unlikely. Gadzetzan stays in the hand until you have enough cheap spells to reasonably draw your deck. Before that point he is a dead card in your hand. That's the downside, and it's a pretty big downside.
if RSF is the last card in your deck it is worse than useless.
I said it's never a dead card in your hand, I never said there were never any situations where the card was useless. I'm sure we can agree that we're really reaching though when the only real downside of a card is that it is useless if it's within the last few cards of your deck (or if you have a full hand).
None of this implies that RSF is any less powerful as a card than it is. Its a very strong card (in the righr situation under the right circumstances, in the right deck built around it). But in those same circumstances Gadget is much stronger.
Well no, Gadgetzan's power has a much higher ceiling, but that doesn't mean it is a much stronger card. Patches the Pirate wasn't a win condition, he was just a 1/1 with charge, but he was an obscenely broken card. Refreshing Springwater is an obscenely broken card.
Thats the key to this particular point. You cant really cherry pick the dream circumstances for RSF and then say it’s better than a 6 mana 4/4 because its an unfair comparison.
The 'dream circumstances' are that it gets played in a deck which Blizzard have specifically designed to be meta viable. A situation where this card is a literal Pot of Greed meme.
Let me finally just say that all of this comes off the back of the original claim that RSF lets you pretty much draw through your whole deck. My point is that no, it doesnt, but even if it did there are already cards/mechanics that do just this - and with much less set up / deck requirements - which people dont feel are a problem.
Refreshing Springwater doesn't let you draw your deck, in fact it's effect seems quite mild, I mean it's just drawing 2 cards, like how Patches was just a 1/1 with Charge. A card having deck building requirements doesn't make it balanced, fun, or fair. You can use these same arguments against Gadzetzan if you wish but I really don't see it.
Blizzard do this all the time, the break cards in order to push an archetype. I just find it to be a cheap and uninteresting way to balance a card game.
All fair enough. Seems like its a card that is debatable in power level and usefulness, but at the same time I dont want to sidetrack the thread itself. (I think the comparison to Gadgetzan has been made and discussed and people can make their own minds on it).
and I am noting the OPs post above on his final thoughts about it, too.
The comparison is perfectly valid. Your assertion that my example was about power levels of the cards is not. Thats the point.
Actually, that said, Gadgetzan actually dwarfs RSF’s power level considerably, so your argument would have been hopelessly incorrect in any case. Gadgetzan has use in so many more situations, AND is a neutral card AND does not have a bad downside AND actually does allow you to draw your whole deck whereas RSF draws two cards, possibly for worse cost than Arcane Intellect.
The more you consider the actual facts of the two cards, the more you would have to admit that Gadgetzan is a MUCH more powerful card overall.
lol, you said Gadgetzan dwarfs RSW power level........I am beyond words.
Of course you're beyond words, you got called out for an ill-considered post and can't find the self-awareness to back down. I could quote ten other examples of this same phenomenon playing out in other threads, but as each one individually proves, it wouldn't help.
Auctioneer has been the key to entire archetypes for the duration of Hearthstone's existence. A single Auctioneer will frequently have a much larger impact on a game than a Spring Water, and it can do so for all ten classes. But this was all explained in the previous post, and you chose zero engagement then, so why change now?
As to the OP and whoever suggested that Flamewalker mage dominates a large portion of higher ladder in Wild, you're both completely off the mark. The highest win rates in mage are universally Secret Mage, not anything relating to RSW. Meanwhile, Tax Paladin maintains an oppressive win rate over all mage opponents, and a staggering win rate against this particular type of mage we're discussing.
In standard, the Lunacy nerf certainly didn't kill the deck, but that's a good thing. Nerfs aren't supposed to render entire archetypes unplayable. Anyone who wants to see that result is willingly separating themselves from any balance consideration. However, mage is just not a particularly daunting matchup in standard, as quite a few decks are maintaining 60% win rates against it. So what's the problem?
Oh yes, feelings. I FEEEEEEL like it's a problem, so clearly it is. Ever since the Shudderwock nerf, folks have been trying the nerf by popular demand route. I'm glad Blizzard has ignored a lot more of these campaigns than they've caved to, but it's constantly a worry.
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Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Gadgetzan is more explosive of a card and definitely has some degenerate applications in wild that make it win a game on the spot. It's conditionally much more broken, while spring walk is just solid most of the time. That being said these are two completely different cards with completely different applications and I'm not sure why they're even being compared.
I don't think springwater is broken personally. But comparing these two cards is a bit wtf.
That's a perfectly reasonable response to Scorpyon's post, and I'd have agreed if that had been the immediate follow-up, but if one was forced to make statements about a comparison, say by a loudmouth who can't resist doubling down on ridiculous previous posts, one would be forced to conclude that Auctioneer is POTENTIALLY a far more powerful card.
RSW is certainly a more generally useful card, but that is not synonymous with power.
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Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Think of it like this, if there was a 0-mana spell that read “draw a card” it would be in almost every deck. Not because it does anything technically ’powerful’, but because it increases the consistency of the deck. It essentially reduces your deck size from 30 to 28 (as you can put 2 in your deck). Now imagine that was “draw 2 cards”, it would be objectively better than a card which would already be an auto include.
This is what Refreshing Springwater is in Spell Mage. It being restricted to that deck doesn’t make it any less lazy, brainless or broken. It just gives an extra card (at worst) to a mages hand for free and thins their deck.
Gadgetzan is a wincon. It’s a potentially broken card but in general I think it’s good for the game.
And again, if you don't like the fact that they printed a card that will probably be included in the majority of decks for a class, that's perfectly fine. They eventually nerfed Power Word: Shield on no other reason than it was basically always an auto-include in priest decks, but that's not a power consideration.
I have no issue with arguing for changing RSW. However, if you're going to argue for such, do it because you don't like the card, do it because you want to see more diversity of card use . . . don't sit here and tell me it represents an overpowered effect.
Even if you were for some reason willing to die on the cross of RSW being OP solely within the wild combo deck, there are other candidates within that deck that clearly represent a bigger part of the engine. Talk to me about Sorcerer's Apprentice. She turns RSW AND Mana Biscuit into positive mana engines, as well as rendering a large chunk of the deck free. Even confined to that one deck, Apprentice has a much larger effect on the game than RSW. So what are we talking about?
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Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Why do you need to create a new mage post? There is already a mage post somewhere on this forums. To escalate the moderation lunacy, why do you post a new hearthstone topic? There is already a post about hearthstone.
At one point there were 5 open threads simultaneously appearing on the front page of the general discussion forum related to how terrible Tickatus is.
By comparison, the mage bitching has been downright reserved.
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Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Of course you're beyond words, you got called out for an ill-considered post and can't find the self-awareness to back down. I could quote ten other examples of this same phenomenon playing out in other threads, but as each one individually proves, it wouldn't help.
Auctioneer has been the key to entire archetypes for the duration of Hearthstone's existence. A single Auctioneer will frequently have a much larger impact on a game than a Spring Water, and it can do so for all ten classes. But this was all explained in the previous post, and you chose zero engagement then, so why change now?
As to the OP and whoever suggested that Flamewalker mage dominates a large portion of higher ladder in Wild, you're both completely off the mark. The highest win rates in mage are universally Secret Mage, not anything relating to RSW. Meanwhile, Tax Paladin maintains an oppressive win rate over all mage opponents, and a staggering win rate against this particular type of mage we're discussing.
In standard, the Lunacy nerf certainly didn't kill the deck, but that's a good thing. Nerfs aren't supposed to render entire archetypes unplayable. Anyone who wants to see that result is willingly separating themselves from any balance consideration. However, mage is just not a particularly daunting matchup in standard, as quite a few decks are maintaining 60% win rates against it. So what's the problem?
Oh yes, feelings. I FEEEEEEL like it's a problem, so clearly it is. Ever since the Shudderwock nerf, folks have been trying the nerf by popular demand route. I'm glad Blizzard has ignored a lot more of these campaigns than they've caved to, but it's constantly a worry.
ooh a mountain of text from shadow defending blizzard or this time the mods, what a shocking development.
Yeah Mozaki is bullshit. Was playing wild and doing great wide board with paladin by turn 5 and the guy in one turn casts 20 spells and OTKs me and every minion I have. Watching this guy cast spells until even after the rope timer expired. Not interactive/no counter play for most decks unelss you build specifically against it.
Imo nerf should be the 2 Mana minion shouldn't be able to reduce card below 1
so why throw out a comparison that you now admit is invalid?
The comparison is perfectly valid. Your assertion that my example was about power levels of the cards is not.
Thats the point.
Actually, that said, Gadgetzan actually dwarfs RSF’s power level considerably, so your argument would have been hopelessly incorrect in any case. Gadgetzan has use in so many more situations, AND is a neutral card AND does not have a bad downside AND actually does allow you to draw your whole deck whereas RSF draws two cards, possibly for worse cost than Arcane Intellect.
The more you consider the actual facts of the two cards, the more you would have to admit that Gadgetzan is a MUCH more powerful card overall.
Refreshing Springwater requires no setup or anything, it's just a free draw 2 when placed in the deck it was designed for. If you have Enchanters Flow played then it gains mana (literally a 0-mana "draw 2 cards and gain X mana" at that point), but that's about it when it comes to deciding when to play the card. It adds nothing to the game other than boosting the power level of a deck Blizzard wanted to promote. There's no subtlety, very little in the way of interaction, it's never a dead card in your hand post turn 3, it's just completely busted.
Although Gadgetzan has far bigger payoffs it actually requires the player to make sacrifices in the turns leading up to dropping it as they have to decide which spells they need to pop off, can they use the coin or do they need it for draw? etc... Don't get me wrong, Gadgetzan is a risky card that can lead to unintended and broken interactions, but design wise it's fair. Saying it has no bad downside is just not true, it's a 6-mana 4/4 - if you cannot go off with it the card is usually completely useless.
In short, Gadgetzan is a great card imo, it promotes interesting deck building and because of it we see some really cool things. It occasionally breaks due to mana cheating.
Refreshing Springwater is a 'free win' card that just boosts the win rate of Spell Mage decks. That's it really.
I wouldnt say it is ever useless.
Take worst case scenario. You and opponent are on the draw. You draw him and you have a 4/4 in play. The cost is irrelevant since you’re floating 4 mana on that turn anyway. But you are now up on tempo. Sure, its not the best use for him by a long stretch, but he is still useful in that scenario. The only time he is useless is when out of options and facing a board of minions. Even if he is the last card in your deck, he has a usefulness.
if RSF is the last card in your deck it is worse than useless.
None of this implies that RSF is any less powerful as a card than it is. Its a very strong card (in the righr situation under the right circumstances, in the right deck built around it). But in those same circumstances Gadget is much stronger.
Thats the key to this particular point. You cant really cherry pick the dream circumstances for RSF and then say it’s better than a 6 mana 4/4 because its an unfair comparison.
Let me finally just say that all of this comes off the back of the original claim that RSF lets you pretty much draw through your whole deck. My point is that no, it doesnt, but even if it did there are already cards/mechanics that do just this - and with much less set up / deck requirements - which people dont feel are a problem.
OP here, after thinking about it a bit and reading the comments, I guess I shouldn't have a problem with the Spell Mage decks. I guess I'm just kind of confused about the fact Dirty Rat and/or Hecklebot haven't made a return to the wild meta. They would completely shit on both Mozaki, Master Duelist and Flamewaker OTK Spell Mage.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Fuhgeddaboudit
I wouldnt say it is ever useless. Take worst case scenario. You and opponent are on the draw. You draw him and you have a 4/4 in play. The cost is irrelevant since you’re floating 4 mana on that turn anyway. But you are now up on tempo. Sure, its not the best use for him by a long stretch, but he is still useful in that scenario. The only time he is useless is when out of options and facing a board of minions. Even if he is the last card in your deck, he has a usefulness.
You're really stretching the use of 'useful' here. A 6-mana 4/4 tempo play is horrible in any deck, but especially a heavily spell based Combo deck. I mean it may still win the odd game through tempo alone but it is unlikely. Gadzetzan stays in the hand until you have enough cheap spells to reasonably draw your deck. Before that point he is a dead card in your hand. That's the downside, and it's a pretty big downside.
if RSF is the last card in your deck it is worse than useless.
I said it's never a dead card in your hand, I never said there were never any situations where the card was useless. I'm sure we can agree that we're really reaching though when the only real downside of a card is that it is useless if it's within the last few cards of your deck (or if you have a full hand).
None of this implies that RSF is any less powerful as a card than it is. Its a very strong card (in the righr situation under the right circumstances, in the right deck built around it). But in those same circumstances Gadget is much stronger.
Well no, Gadgetzan's power has a much higher ceiling, but that doesn't mean it is a much stronger card. Patches the Pirate wasn't a win condition, he was just a 1/1 with charge, but he was an obscenely broken card. Refreshing Springwater is an obscenely broken card.
Thats the key to this particular point. You cant really cherry pick the dream circumstances for RSF and then say it’s better than a 6 mana 4/4 because its an unfair comparison.
The 'dream circumstances' are that it gets played in a deck which Blizzard have specifically designed to be meta viable. A situation where this card is a literal Pot of Greed meme.
Let me finally just say that all of this comes off the back of the original claim that RSF lets you pretty much draw through your whole deck. My point is that no, it doesnt, but even if it did there are already cards/mechanics that do just this - and with much less set up / deck requirements - which people dont feel are a problem.
Refreshing Springwater doesn't let you draw your deck, in fact it's effect seems quite mild, I mean it's just drawing 2 cards, like how Patches was just a 1/1 with Charge. A card having deck building requirements doesn't make it balanced, fun, or fair. You can use these same arguments against Gadzetzan if you wish but I really don't see it.
Blizzard do this all the time, the break cards in order to push an archetype. I just find it to be a cheap and uninteresting way to balance a card game.
All fair enough. Seems like its a card that is debatable in power level and usefulness, but at the same time I dont want to sidetrack the thread itself. (I think the comparison to Gadgetzan has been made and discussed and people can make their own minds on it).
and I am noting the OPs post above on his final thoughts about it, too.
lol, you said Gadgetzan dwarfs RSW power level........I am beyond words.
Of course you're beyond words, you got called out for an ill-considered post and can't find the self-awareness to back down. I could quote ten other examples of this same phenomenon playing out in other threads, but as each one individually proves, it wouldn't help.
Auctioneer has been the key to entire archetypes for the duration of Hearthstone's existence. A single Auctioneer will frequently have a much larger impact on a game than a Spring Water, and it can do so for all ten classes. But this was all explained in the previous post, and you chose zero engagement then, so why change now?
As to the OP and whoever suggested that Flamewalker mage dominates a large portion of higher ladder in Wild, you're both completely off the mark. The highest win rates in mage are universally Secret Mage, not anything relating to RSW. Meanwhile, Tax Paladin maintains an oppressive win rate over all mage opponents, and a staggering win rate against this particular type of mage we're discussing.
In standard, the Lunacy nerf certainly didn't kill the deck, but that's a good thing. Nerfs aren't supposed to render entire archetypes unplayable. Anyone who wants to see that result is willingly separating themselves from any balance consideration. However, mage is just not a particularly daunting matchup in standard, as quite a few decks are maintaining 60% win rates against it. So what's the problem?
Oh yes, feelings. I FEEEEEEL like it's a problem, so clearly it is. Ever since the Shudderwock nerf, folks have been trying the nerf by popular demand route. I'm glad Blizzard has ignored a lot more of these campaigns than they've caved to, but it's constantly a worry.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Gadgetzan is more explosive of a card and definitely has some degenerate applications in wild that make it win a game on the spot. It's conditionally much more broken, while spring walk is just solid most of the time. That being said these are two completely different cards with completely different applications and I'm not sure why they're even being compared.
I don't think springwater is broken personally. But comparing these two cards is a bit wtf.
@HSam
That's a perfectly reasonable response to Scorpyon's post, and I'd have agreed if that had been the immediate follow-up, but if one was forced to make statements about a comparison, say by a loudmouth who can't resist doubling down on ridiculous previous posts, one would be forced to conclude that Auctioneer is POTENTIALLY a far more powerful card.
RSW is certainly a more generally useful card, but that is not synonymous with power.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
"Remember when cards costed mana?" LMAO!
I play Secret Mage and Explosive Runes and counterspell kills OTK mages...but You have to play mage too lol
Think of it like this, if there was a 0-mana spell that read “draw a card” it would be in almost every deck. Not because it does anything technically ’powerful’, but because it increases the consistency of the deck. It essentially reduces your deck size from 30 to 28 (as you can put 2 in your deck). Now imagine that was “draw 2 cards”, it would be objectively better than a card which would already be an auto include.
This is what Refreshing Springwater is in Spell Mage. It being restricted to that deck doesn’t make it any less lazy, brainless or broken. It just gives an extra card (at worst) to a mages hand for free and thins their deck.
Gadgetzan is a wincon. It’s a potentially broken card but in general I think it’s good for the game.
And again, if you don't like the fact that they printed a card that will probably be included in the majority of decks for a class, that's perfectly fine. They eventually nerfed Power Word: Shield on no other reason than it was basically always an auto-include in priest decks, but that's not a power consideration.
I have no issue with arguing for changing RSW. However, if you're going to argue for such, do it because you don't like the card, do it because you want to see more diversity of card use . . . don't sit here and tell me it represents an overpowered effect.
Even if you were for some reason willing to die on the cross of RSW being OP solely within the wild combo deck, there are other candidates within that deck that clearly represent a bigger part of the engine. Talk to me about Sorcerer's Apprentice. She turns RSW AND Mana Biscuit into positive mana engines, as well as rendering a large chunk of the deck free. Even confined to that one deck, Apprentice has a much larger effect on the game than RSW. So what are we talking about?
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Why do you need to create a new mage post? There is already a mage post somewhere on this forums. To escalate the moderation lunacy, why do you post a new hearthstone topic? There is already a post about hearthstone.
At one point there were 5 open threads simultaneously appearing on the front page of the general discussion forum related to how terrible Tickatus is.
By comparison, the mage bitching has been downright reserved.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
ooh a mountain of text from shadow defending blizzard or this time the mods, what a shocking development.
Yeah Mozaki is bullshit. Was playing wild and doing great wide board with paladin by turn 5 and the guy in one turn casts 20 spells and OTKs me and every minion I have. Watching this guy cast spells until even after the rope timer expired. Not interactive/no counter play for most decks unelss you build specifically against it.
Imo nerf should be the 2 Mana minion shouldn't be able to reduce card below 1
Can confirm my hard aggro deck had no chance vs that bullshit