I think the majority would agree when I state that the two worst classes in the game are Hunter and Warrior.
The reason they are the worst classes is because, unlike the other classes, their hero powers do not contribute to board control. They only effect the heroes and ignore minions. I believe before Blizzard makes anymore changes to the Hunter or Warrior (like that awful UTH change/nerf) they should reevaluate the hero powers to contribute in some way to the board.
Btw Blizz, hunters weren't only running UTH decks because it was OP. They were running it because it's the only viable way to play. Of course all hunters are going for rush down decks! It is the only style than synergies with steady shot! It's is the same reason warriors rely on gimmicky enrage combos. Their hero power helps them stall until their hand has that OTK.
I don't know what the hero powers should be changed to, but they do need a change. Otherwise the only fix will be to give them OP class cards to compensate.
I really don't think warrior is too bad right now. It's the class I got 12-0 arena on, and was the class I played with ~25 wins to 3star masters twice. They didn't get any nerfs since Battlerage, and the recent nerfs to hunter, mage, priest are all a benefit to them.
I will take any warrior hero power synergized with Weapon, give it more attack or durability. Armor looks good at first since warriors are always hitting with their weapon, but there are nearly no cards utilizing the armor, except for maybe Shield Slam, making armor bad.
Hunter hero power actually fits extremely well into the OTK deck, since OTK was the only viable way to play a Hunter, deeming the hero power useless now unless a rush based Hunter deck is available.
I agree that the hero powers are bad. Don't know, if completely new mechanics are realistic, but some number tuning could be reasonable. I suppose everyone agrees that the 1 free damage of the Mage is (much) better than Steady Shot, so why not let the latter do 3 damage instead? Warrior might get 3 armor then or even 4.
Id like the warrior to read: Deal one to two damage to a random enemy character.
Please don't touch my armor, it's the reason I smash mages right now lol.
Warrior might get 3 armor then or even 4.
3 or 4 armor? Are you crazy? That would make it the most powerful class by far.
So you consider 2 armor on par with the Mage ability? About Armor up I've read things like "using it on turn 2 is a game-losing desaster". You disagree with that?
So you consider 2 armor on par with the Mage ability? About Armor up I've read things like "using it on turn 2 is a game-losing desaster". You disagree with that?
Imagine you are on turn 2 in a game of mage versus warrior. Neither side has a 2 drop or a minion out.
Turn 2, warrior armours up for +2 armour. Turn 2, mage pings warrior for 1 damage.
End result: Mage is at 30 health. Warrior is at 30 health + 1 armour.
Id like the warrior to read: Deal one to two damage to a random enemy character.
Please don't touch my armor, it's the reason I smash mages right now lol.
Warrior might get 3 armor then or even 4.
3 or 4 armor? Are you crazy? That would make it the most powerful class by far.
So you consider 2 armor on par with the Mage ability? About Armor up I've read things like "using it on turn 2 is a game-losing desaster". You disagree with that?
Yes I do. Mage's hero power does more on turn 2? It's even worse. You ping the enemy hero and you're ahead 1 hp, with warrior you are ahead 2. Math. Every hero power is more or less equally bad on turn 2. And no, it's not on par with other hero powers but 3 armor would be retardedly strong. If we're talking about 4 then everyone is going to play warrior. Don't get me wrong, warrior is my main, I'm up for a week of having 4 armor from hero power to crush some mages even more.
That's your argument? 2>1?It's the flexibility of the Mage ability that makes it so strong. It can kill any creature left at 1 HP and remove any Divine Shield regardless of Taunts. Also, on turn 2 it can kill almost any 1-drop. Now 1-drops don't get played much it seems, but that's because the ping is that strong.
So, Lenor, do you think, 3 armor would be the problem itself compared to other powers or do you only say buffing an already strong class is a wrong move?
That's your argument? 2>1?It's the flexibility of the Mage ability that makes it so strong. It can kill any creature left at 1 HP and remove any Divine Shield regardless of Taunts. Also, on turn 2 it can kill almost any 1-drop. Now 1-drops don't get played much it seems, but that's because the ping is that strong.
So, Lenor, do you think, 3 armor would be the problem itself compared to other powers or do you only say buffing an already strong class is a wrong move?
You asked about turn 2, warrior is better turn 2 than mage. ContentsMayVary gets it.
Warrior is not a strong class but it's decent. 3 armor would be strong, you can play a defensive heavy deck with rag and ysera or what have you and just turtle, hard to get killed.
Alternating between 2 and 3 armor each use would be a more reasonable buff but 3 armor always is just too much.
I think its a fair assessment that Warriors and Hunters are in the worst place at the moment only because they are both are easily defeated by control unless they get a perfect start. Hunters essentially want to be Paladins, but their removal isn't as powerful and their weapons aren't as good - and unlike Paladins their key minions are all 1/2 health. Warriors biggest problem is the reliance of self buffing - and when they do they hurt their minions putting them into AOE death range. Honestly I wish they unnerfed Battle Rage - sure it was better than Arcane Intellect, but why is that a problem? Card drawing should not be a mage niche.
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Nozdormu wins you every game where you opponent has to go to the bathroom on turn 9.
You want to know why Warriors are at the bottom? Blame this guy.
Really, taunts are exceptionally strong against the Warrior, who's forced to hit himself against the taunt wall, and has nearly no means to deal with it without losing weapon durability, execute, or charge minions (who'll die once they hit the taunt minion). I think Warriors have some potential though, like Lenor said, when you're behind a shit ton of armor it's kinda hard to even harm you, and I think it's possible to run a Warrior deck focused on late game beatdown, with armor + Shield Block coupled with early removals to get there (tip: Pyromancer + Acolyte + Battle Rage feels like the good old days before the nerf, also Brawl, give this card a chance, it's better than you think).
Agree about Brawl - it's extremely efficient if you don't have any minions and the opponent has a few. Shield Block + Shield Slam is nice single target removal, but suffers from being a combo. Execute is far better.
Sunwalker destroys Warrior for free, you can handle Argus to an extent, but Sunwalker? Nothing short of Arcanite and an attack or two attacks + execute, it will trade +1 almost every time.
Shield Slam is amazing if you run a little Armorsmith action as well, even if you have one armor, you can hero power + Slam for 3 damage 3 armor. I really wish I had Shield Slams to play with, I've ran into strong warrior decks that utilized Shield Slam to get rid of a multitude of threats for cheap once they get a substantial armor lead.
1 for 7's should not be for anyniche! You literally drew your entire deck off of a good board. I think it's a good compromise as being a potentially amazing card rather than always an amazing card. On the bright side, it's never useless as a single draw. The Warrior card set needs a little looking into, he's lacking options, not the ability to find said options in a match because it's basically cantrip city for this class.
I don't know why we're comparing the best hero power in the game to one that's worse off in a situational turn 2 scenario, it should be incredibly obvious that Mages lose out on all the perks that the other classes have with their hero power in exchange for not being bound to taunts. Druids are net 2 (1 damage, 1 armor), Paladin is net 2 (1 attack 1 life), Rogue is net two (1 attack, two hits, Hunter is net 2 (damage), Warrior is net 2 (armor), all Shaman totems are 2 health with some perks. There's an underlying design philosophy that Mages break for good reason.
I've had more success with my Warrior deck than I have with any deck right now, and I'm a mage (ex semi-pro MTG Blue player) at heart. I run mage and control well and I'm not an aggressive win in 7 turns type of player. The key is not overextending with Warrior. Each card has to have a value on its own and force a response from control players.
This means you don't have to lead yourself into Flamestrike, Blizzard, Swipe, etc. Just play it slow and really detail out when you attack the face and when you attack minions. That is a huge part of playing Warrior well. I will not say they are suddenly the most powerful class in the game because I've had the most success with them but they are certainly not bottom 2, now that I've figured out the style that works for me.
I'll put up my deck list soon but for now, here are some things to consider. Acolyte of Pain is great to manage control because you keep card advantage (or stay with your opponent) when combined with Taskmaster. Battle Rage is fantastic as well as Frothing Zerker when combined with stuff like Imp Master and Whirlwind. Fiery War Axe is one of the best cards in the game period. Nuke mage or fast rush, Shield Block is outstanding. Otherwise a well played Frothing or holding a Grommash can win the game outright. 3/3 gives you a 2/2 weapon is top 10 cards in the game as well. Warrior has some of the best cards in the game. You aren't playing it right.
I think the majority would agree when I state that the two worst classes in the game are Hunter and Warrior.
The reason they are the worst classes is because, unlike the other classes, their hero powers do not contribute to board control. They only effect the heroes and ignore minions. I believe before Blizzard makes anymore changes to the Hunter or Warrior (like that awful UTH change/nerf) they should reevaluate the hero powers to contribute in some way to the board.
Btw Blizz, hunters weren't only running UTH decks because it was OP. They were running it because it's the only viable way to play. Of course all hunters are going for rush down decks! It is the only style than synergies with steady shot! It's is the same reason warriors rely on gimmicky enrage combos. Their hero power helps them stall until their hand has that OTK.
I don't know what the hero powers should be changed to, but they do need a change. Otherwise the only fix will be to give them OP class cards to compensate.
For me, the two worst classes are hunter and priest, I have the highest win rate against them.
I did very well with a warrior prior to the latest patch, 65% win rate over 152 matches played. Having no legendaries I'd say that was decent.
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I really don't think warrior is too bad right now. It's the class I got 12-0 arena on, and was the class I played with ~25 wins to 3star masters twice. They didn't get any nerfs since Battlerage, and the recent nerfs to hunter, mage, priest are all a benefit to them.
I will take any warrior hero power synergized with Weapon, give it more attack or durability. Armor looks good at first since warriors are always hitting with their weapon, but there are nearly no cards utilizing the armor, except for maybe Shield Slam, making armor bad.
Hunter hero power actually fits extremely well into the OTK deck, since OTK was the only viable way to play a Hunter, deeming the hero power useless now unless a rush based Hunter deck is available.
Id like the warrior to read: Deal one to two damage to a random enemy character.
twitch.tv/fashbinder
I agree that the hero powers are bad. Don't know, if completely new mechanics are realistic, but some number tuning could be reasonable.
I suppose everyone agrees that the 1 free damage of the Mage is (much) better than Steady Shot, so why not let the latter do 3 damage instead?
Warrior might get 3 armor then or even 4.
Arena Tips
Imagine you are on turn 2 in a game of mage versus warrior. Neither side has a 2 drop or a minion out.
Turn 2, warrior armours up for +2 armour.
Turn 2, mage pings warrior for 1 damage.
End result: Mage is at 30 health. Warrior is at 30 health + 1 armour.
Who did best?
And no, it's not on par with other hero powers but 3 armor would be retardedly strong. If we're talking about 4 then everyone is going to play warrior. Don't get me wrong, warrior is my main, I'm up for a week of having 4 armor from hero power to crush some mages even more.
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That's your argument? 2>1?It's the flexibility of the Mage ability that makes it so strong. It can kill any creature left at 1 HP and remove any Divine Shield regardless of Taunts. Also, on turn 2 it can kill almost any 1-drop. Now 1-drops don't get played much it seems, but that's because the ping is that strong.
So, Lenor, do you think, 3 armor would be the problem itself compared to other powers or do you only say buffing an already strong class is a wrong move?
You asked about turn 2, warrior is better turn 2 than mage. ContentsMayVary gets it.
Warrior is not a strong class but it's decent. 3 armor would be strong, you can play a defensive heavy deck with rag and ysera or what have you and just turtle, hard to get killed.
Alternating between 2 and 3 armor each use would be a more reasonable buff but 3 armor always is just too much.
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YOLO MODE ACTIVATED!
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I think its a fair assessment that Warriors and Hunters are in the worst place at the moment only because they are both are easily defeated by control unless they get a perfect start.
Hunters essentially want to be Paladins, but their removal isn't as powerful and their weapons aren't as good - and unlike Paladins their key minions are all 1/2 health.
Warriors biggest problem is the reliance of self buffing - and when they do they hurt their minions putting them into AOE death range. Honestly I wish they unnerfed Battle Rage - sure it was better than Arcane Intellect, but why is that a problem? Card drawing should not be a mage niche.
Nozdormu wins you every game where you opponent has to go to the bathroom on turn 9.
Defender of Argus
You want to know why Warriors are at the bottom? Blame this guy.
Really, taunts are exceptionally strong against the Warrior, who's forced to hit himself against the taunt wall, and has nearly no means to deal with it without losing weapon durability, execute, or charge minions (who'll die once they hit the taunt minion). I think Warriors have some potential though, like Lenor said, when you're behind a shit ton of armor it's kinda hard to even harm you, and I think it's possible to run a Warrior deck focused on late game beatdown, with armor + Shield Block coupled with early removals to get there (tip: Pyromancer + Acolyte + Battle Rage feels like the good old days before the nerf, also Brawl, give this card a chance, it's better than you think).
Agree about Brawl - it's extremely efficient if you don't have any minions and the opponent has a few.
Shield Block + Shield Slam is nice single target removal, but suffers from being a combo. Execute is far better.
care to elaborate?
Sunwalker destroys Warrior for free, you can handle Argus to an extent, but Sunwalker? Nothing short of Arcanite and an attack or two attacks + execute, it will trade +1 almost every time.
Shield Slam is amazing if you run a little Armorsmith action as well, even if you have one armor, you can hero power + Slam for 3 damage 3 armor. I really wish I had Shield Slams to play with, I've ran into strong warrior decks that utilized Shield Slam to get rid of a multitude of threats for cheap once they get a substantial armor lead.
1 for 7's should not be for any niche! You literally drew your entire deck off of a good board. I think it's a good compromise as being a potentially amazing card rather than always an amazing card. On the bright side, it's never useless as a single draw. The Warrior card set needs a little looking into, he's lacking options, not the ability to find said options in a match because it's basically cantrip city for this class.
I don't know why we're comparing the best hero power in the game to one that's worse off in a situational turn 2 scenario, it should be incredibly obvious that Mages lose out on all the perks that the other classes have with their hero power in exchange for not being bound to taunts. Druids are net 2 (1 damage, 1 armor), Paladin is net 2 (1 attack 1 life), Rogue is net two (1 attack, two hits, Hunter is net 2 (damage), Warrior is net 2 (armor), all Shaman totems are 2 health with some perks. There's an underlying design philosophy that Mages break for good reason.
http://www.youtube.com/user/vtxaishi
You're not going crazy, I edit 2~3 times each post
I've had more success with my Warrior deck than I have with any deck right now, and I'm a mage (ex semi-pro MTG Blue player) at heart. I run mage and control well and I'm not an aggressive win in 7 turns type of player. The key is not overextending with Warrior. Each card has to have a value on its own and force a response from control players.
This means you don't have to lead yourself into Flamestrike, Blizzard, Swipe, etc. Just play it slow and really detail out when you attack the face and when you attack minions. That is a huge part of playing Warrior well. I will not say they are suddenly the most powerful class in the game because I've had the most success with them but they are certainly not bottom 2, now that I've figured out the style that works for me.
I'll put up my deck list soon but for now, here are some things to consider. Acolyte of Pain is great to manage control because you keep card advantage (or stay with your opponent) when combined with Taskmaster. Battle Rage is fantastic as well as Frothing Zerker when combined with stuff like Imp Master and Whirlwind. Fiery War Axe is one of the best cards in the game period. Nuke mage or fast rush, Shield Block is outstanding. Otherwise a well played Frothing or holding a Grommash can win the game outright. 3/3 gives you a 2/2 weapon is top 10 cards in the game as well. Warrior has some of the best cards in the game. You aren't playing it right.
Arathi Weaponsmith?