I am usually not one to wine about "OP" classes, but it should be clear to level headed people that mages stand head and shoulders above the other classes and that this drains the fun out the game.
In the spirit of compromise, I could even tolerate Flamestrike as long as they removed Cone and Blizzard's freezing effect.
Tolerate flamestrike?? LOL, flamestrike is shit bro.
Shit for who, the caster or the victim? Flamestrike is absolutely devastating to minion heavy meta decks; so much so, that we have to construct our game plan with the knowledge that our board is going to get wiped at turn 7 and probably again around turn 10 or so.
Flamestrike isnt being run in high lvl control mage decks bro and the control mage decks are the 'OP'' ones so yeah if you lose to standard mage decks with flamestrike maybe l2p.
This would be news to Timbolt, Luzak, and Xtz, all 3 of whom ran high level mage control decks with Flamestrike at the Managrind tournament. The only Mage without Flamestrike was Lothar and he was also the only one not to have a control deck, so I'm afraid you're doubly wrong.
k15's thinking is the exact kind of thinking that keeps trash in line, metas and decks run all over the place because people believe it's what the pros do
3/4 pros use flamestrike, must be the best card since sliced bread, lets add it into all the mage decks. while we're at it, lets look at even more cards that pop up in their decks and use those.
guess what, tournament play and environment is incredibly different from ranked or casual play, this goes for practically any game, stop being a sheep
k15's thinking is the exact kind of thinking that keeps trash in line, metas and decks run all over the place because people believe it's what the pros do
3/4 pros use flamestrike, must be the best card since sliced bread, lets add it into all the mage decks. while we're at it, lets look at even more cards that pop up in their decks and use those.
guess what, tournament play and environment is incredibly different from ranked or casual play, this goes for practically any game, stop being a sheep
I am not suggesting that everyone use Flamestrike, what players add in their decks is their business. That said, it is a highly effective card that can and will singlehandedly win a Mage the game (both Casual and Pro) against many kinds of aggro decks if their opponent doesn't play around it starting from turn 1. If your deck is minion-heavy, then you HAVE to play with the assumption that the Mage has a Flamestrike ready at turn 7 because if he does and you're unprepared, you lose.
In every aspect of life, people tend to gravitate towards what is most efficient. It so happens that Flamestrike is currently very efficient at winning games; I don't understand what's so sheepish or controversial about pointing this out.
haha if the game solely consisted of rated games, it could certainly be renamed.
Would be much better ppl had to name three decks among which one would be chosen randomly before every game...might at least be one option to increase diversity. In all honesty, I'm getting bored, playing against nothing but mages.
The biggest problem is there aren't enough spell shield or minions that must be targeted by spells. Most card games have these mechanics. I mean we have taunt for minions and oozes for weapons there should be something neutral for all classes to counter spell.
Tried running a mage deck with 2 counterspells against these stall mage decks and it is really satisfying to see their ice block/pyro or fireball get used when they think you actually used an ice block/ice barrier.
Seriously, every one in this thread needs to take a pill ... to chill. Ihmo said it perfectly; Mages are very straight forward compared to the rest of the heroes. It just so happens that Mages answer swarm quite handily. So stop playing swarm. And when mages get tired of loosing to whatever is next, they'll play whatever hero most handily beats that. It's a cycle that doesn't abide the calling of nerfs every time the meta shifts.
The whole point of an interactive card game is for decks to evolve and change. If you, the player, do not change and evolve with them you will quickly fall by the wayside or quit playing. There are plenty of ways to counter Mages right now. Just because the cards we want to play aren't as effective as we want them to be doesn't mean Mages need a nerf.
Also, as you begin climbing the brackets the popular decks will change since mages are shooting right to the upper tiers. If you don't alter your decks or play different heroes to meet the different strategies along the way you're doing yourself a disservice. Mage is just taking advantage of the meta's inability and unwillingness to adapt to them.
I don't touch mage personally. I stick to Priest, Warlock, and Shaman primarily. I haven't found the exact answers to Mages for any of my three decks yet, but I'm getting there ... myself. Try doing the same yourselves, only please stop crying about not having the answers written out for you.
Finally, this is Beta. Our observations are being heard by Blizzard, but our complaints are moot and tiresome. We sound like sniveling babies who need Mommy to cut our hotdogs into neatly bite-sized pieces.
Stupid Managrind. Netdeckers. Netdeckers everywhere. I was pro-Jaina long before it was cool, now these whippersnappers are making me look like a FOTM! :/
And the problem is that I still lose to murlocs without a god hand, and utterly reliant on breaking enemy tempo to win.
At least you still need a brain to play mage or you will get steamrolled by players expecting your next move.
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Database Database just sitting in the Database WOW WOW
The biggest problem is there aren't enough spell shield or minions that must be targeted by spells. Most card games have these mechanics. I mean we have taunt for minions and oozes for weapons there should be something neutral for all classes to counter spell.
Well that _might_ work. The problem is, that spells dont do anything then. Weaponwielder can hit at least once before you are able to counter them. and taunt can get evaded by silence or by saving minions.
So spellblocking heavily counters the main purpose of mages. As a mage you rely on spells and often end up without any mana to place a minion. a complete block would totally screw the mage, escpecially if its a minion
Stupid Managrind. Netdeckers. Netdeckers everywhere. I was pro-Jaina long before it was cool, now these whippersnappers are making me look like a FOTM! :/
Wow now we have hearthstone hipsters? "I was cool before it was cool". Congratulations in spotting what was powerful before it was refined towards the metagame and dominated the competition.
I honestly don't think mages need to be nerfed, I think their spells are great representation of the class and right power level - except maybe Fireball, I dont see why it has to be ahead of the curve.
I think its the other classes that were not flushed out enough with equivalent tools. Removing buffs from a player (ie. removing secrets) should be in all classes in one way or another. Take World of Warcraft, every class has a way to "kick" an enemy and I think that needs to be the same in Hearthstone. Secondly, I have no problem with a 10 damage pyroblast for 8 mana, but I have a problem with it being uncounter/unredirectable. Why is there no Grounding Totem or Distracting Shot or a player Bubble for Paladins? Why can't a warrior gain temporary armor until the start of his next turn, some excessive amount like 10-12? Why can't a Rogue have a Vanish secret that activates when a big attack targets a player.
These are simple tools that should of been apart of the game which would of evened this situation out.
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Nozdormu wins you every game where you opponent has to go to the bathroom on turn 9.
Lol, okay so I'm a hipster. Yes, mages are strong and was how I held my own when the meta was all about priests, Murlocks and Argent Commanders. Doesn't mean mages need a nerf because it certainly didn't need one back then. However, Blizz will nerf cards just because too many people play it, so I'm willing to bet Mages are going to be absolutely destroyed next patch because its the new hotness rather than because it actually needs fixing.
I have to admit, the Grounding Totem mechanic is missing in this game. However, I believe it shouldn't be permanent like Taunt, as a spell fizzles after cast whereas a minion can go on and on.
How about: Grounding: The next enemy spell played has to target this card, if this card is a valid target.
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Database Database just sitting in the Database WOW WOW
After reading the above post I forget what I was going to say. Glad we can't use our hearthpwn forum avatar pics in game or I would lose every time LOL
Oh yeah, Mages. Where's Warrior Spell Reflection? That could stop help this madness.
I'd like to contest "stalling until Pyroblast kills you for sure." Where do you draw the line? "Stalling until Fireball kills you for sure"? "Stalling until Frostbolt kills you for sure"? Already, I avoid dropping below 8HP because every slow deck seems to run Rag, which is 8 damage to the face which cannot be countered (not even Vaporized unless I run Ice Block...).
Penalizing spells will shift meta towards Wall of Taunt decks, causing the cycle to start anew until no game mechanic works. Like the whinging about MC and UTH, I doubt people crying about mages actually know what they are getting into.
Anyway, the best way to deal with this is with new cards, basically the anti-magic cooldowns available to all classes in wow.
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Database Database just sitting in the Database WOW WOW
I'd like to contest "stalling until Pyroblast kills you for sure." Where do you draw the line? "Stalling until Fireball kills you for sure"? "Stalling until Frostbolt kills you for sure"? Already, I avoid dropping below 8HP because every slow deck seems to run Rag, which is 8 damage to the face which cannot be countered (not even Vaporized unless I run Ice Block...).
Penalizing spells will shift meta towards Wall of Taunt decks, causing the cycle to start anew until no game mechanic works. Like the whinging about MC and UTH, I doubt people crying about mages actually know what they are getting into.
Anyway, the best way to deal with this is with new cards, basically the anti-magic cooldowns available to all classes in wow.
I'm pretty sure even removing Pyroblast completely would not make the Mage bad or wouldn't even really change the Meta.
Not saying that is the solution, but it wouldn't be a huge dramatic game/Mage-breaking event if it happened.
This is just insane... before the patch it was about 25% mages i faced and 20% priests. Now when i try to rank up i play vs mages EVERY SINGLE game. Tried multiple different decks that had like 70% win rate before and there is just nothing i can do.
2 fireballs + 2 pyro and meanwhile you cannot kill them while they keep getting immume, immume, frost nova, frost nova, cone of cold, cone of cold, blizzard, blizzard, 8 armor, 8 armor.
I refuse to buy more cards just so i can play a mage deck, even though i hate playing mage cause it feels so cheap just to rank up.
This would be news to Timbolt, Luzak, and Xtz, all 3 of whom ran high level mage control decks with Flamestrike at the Managrind tournament. The only Mage without Flamestrike was Lothar and he was also the only one not to have a control deck, so I'm afraid you're doubly wrong.
k15's thinking is the exact kind of thinking that keeps trash in line, metas and decks run all over the place because people believe it's what the pros do
3/4 pros use flamestrike, must be the best card since sliced bread, lets add it into all the mage decks. while we're at it, lets look at even more cards that pop up in their decks and use those.
guess what, tournament play and environment is incredibly different from ranked or casual play, this goes for practically any game, stop being a sheep
I am not suggesting that everyone use Flamestrike, what players add in their decks is their business. That said, it is a highly effective card that can and will singlehandedly win a Mage the game (both Casual and Pro) against many kinds of aggro decks if their opponent doesn't play around it starting from turn 1. If your deck is minion-heavy, then you HAVE to play with the assumption that the Mage has a Flamestrike ready at turn 7 because if he does and you're unprepared, you lose.
In every aspect of life, people tend to gravitate towards what is most efficient. It so happens that Flamestrike is currently very efficient at winning games; I don't understand what's so sheepish or controversial about pointing this out.
haha if the game solely consisted of rated games, it could certainly be renamed.
Would be much better ppl had to name three decks among which one would be chosen randomly before every game...might at least be one option to increase diversity. In all honesty, I'm getting bored, playing against nothing but mages.
The biggest problem is there aren't enough spell shield or minions that must be targeted by spells. Most card games have these mechanics. I mean we have taunt for minions and oozes for weapons there should be something neutral for all classes to counter spell.
Tried running a mage deck with 2 counterspells against these stall mage decks and it is really satisfying to see their ice block/pyro or fireball get used when they think you actually used an ice block/ice barrier.
Don't worry, blizzard will nerf them. Oh wait they nerfed the only type of deck that worked for hunter and they also nerfed MC. Nothing to do here.
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What do you think is actually wrong with the ranking system itself? It seems fine to me...
Seriously, every one in this thread needs to take a pill ... to chill. Ihmo said it perfectly; Mages are very straight forward compared to the rest of the heroes. It just so happens that Mages answer swarm quite handily. So stop playing swarm. And when mages get tired of loosing to whatever is next, they'll play whatever hero most handily beats that. It's a cycle that doesn't abide the calling of nerfs every time the meta shifts.
The whole point of an interactive card game is for decks to evolve and change. If you, the player, do not change and evolve with them you will quickly fall by the wayside or quit playing. There are plenty of ways to counter Mages right now. Just because the cards we want to play aren't as effective as we want them to be doesn't mean Mages need a nerf.
Also, as you begin climbing the brackets the popular decks will change since mages are shooting right to the upper tiers. If you don't alter your decks or play different heroes to meet the different strategies along the way you're doing yourself a disservice. Mage is just taking advantage of the meta's inability and unwillingness to adapt to them.
I don't touch mage personally. I stick to Priest, Warlock, and Shaman primarily. I haven't found the exact answers to Mages for any of my three decks yet, but I'm getting there ... myself. Try doing the same yourselves, only please stop crying about not having the answers written out for you.
Finally, this is Beta. Our observations are being heard by Blizzard, but our complaints are moot and tiresome. We sound like sniveling babies who need Mommy to cut our hotdogs into neatly bite-sized pieces.
The Doomsayer + Frozen Nova combo really gets me hating......
Stupid Managrind. Netdeckers. Netdeckers everywhere. I was pro-Jaina long before it was cool, now these whippersnappers are making me look like a FOTM! :/
And the problem is that I still lose to murlocs without a god hand, and utterly reliant on breaking enemy tempo to win.
At least you still need a brain to play mage or you will get steamrolled by players expecting your next move.
Database Database just sitting in the Database WOW WOW
That's why I've been rolling Control Mage ever since the beginning.
All the more reason to trust what I said, I know what kills me.
Well that _might_ work. The problem is, that spells dont do anything then. Weaponwielder can hit at least once before you are able to counter them. and taunt can get evaded by silence or by saving minions.
So spellblocking heavily counters the main purpose of mages. As a mage you rely on spells and often end up without any mana to place a minion. a complete block would totally screw the mage, escpecially if its a minion
Wow now we have hearthstone hipsters? "I was cool before it was cool". Congratulations in spotting what was powerful before it was refined towards the metagame and dominated the competition.
I honestly don't think mages need to be nerfed, I think their spells are great representation of the class and right power level - except maybe Fireball, I dont see why it has to be ahead of the curve.
I think its the other classes that were not flushed out enough with equivalent tools. Removing buffs from a player (ie. removing secrets) should be in all classes in one way or another. Take World of Warcraft, every class has a way to "kick" an enemy and I think that needs to be the same in Hearthstone. Secondly, I have no problem with a 10 damage pyroblast for 8 mana, but I have a problem with it being uncounter/unredirectable. Why is there no Grounding Totem or Distracting Shot or a player Bubble for Paladins? Why can't a warrior gain temporary armor until the start of his next turn, some excessive amount like 10-12? Why can't a Rogue have a Vanish secret that activates when a big attack targets a player.
These are simple tools that should of been apart of the game which would of evened this situation out.
Nozdormu wins you every game where you opponent has to go to the bathroom on turn 9.
Lol, okay so I'm a hipster. Yes, mages are strong and was how I held my own when the meta was all about priests, Murlocks and Argent Commanders. Doesn't mean mages need a nerf because it certainly didn't need one back then. However, Blizz will nerf cards just because too many people play it, so I'm willing to bet Mages are going to be absolutely destroyed next patch because its the new hotness rather than because it actually needs fixing.
I have to admit, the Grounding Totem mechanic is missing in this game. However, I believe it shouldn't be permanent like Taunt, as a spell fizzles after cast whereas a minion can go on and on.
How about: Grounding: The next enemy spell played has to target this card, if this card is a valid target.
Database Database just sitting in the Database WOW WOW
After reading the above post I forget what I was going to say. Glad we can't use our hearthpwn forum avatar pics in game or I would lose every time LOL
Oh yeah, Mages. Where's Warrior Spell Reflection? That could stop help this madness.
I'd like to contest "stalling until Pyroblast kills you for sure." Where do you draw the line? "Stalling until Fireball kills you for sure"? "Stalling until Frostbolt kills you for sure"? Already, I avoid dropping below 8HP because every slow deck seems to run Rag, which is 8 damage to the face which cannot be countered (not even Vaporized unless I run Ice Block...).
Penalizing spells will shift meta towards Wall of Taunt decks, causing the cycle to start anew until no game mechanic works. Like the whinging about MC and UTH, I doubt people crying about mages actually know what they are getting into.
Anyway, the best way to deal with this is with new cards, basically the anti-magic cooldowns available to all classes in wow.
Database Database just sitting in the Database WOW WOW
I'm pretty sure even removing Pyroblast completely would not make the Mage bad or wouldn't even really change the Meta.
Not saying that is the solution, but it wouldn't be a huge dramatic game/Mage-breaking event if it happened.
This is just insane... before the patch it was about 25% mages i faced and 20% priests. Now when i try to rank up i play vs mages EVERY SINGLE game. Tried multiple different decks that had like 70% win rate before and there is just nothing i can do.
2 fireballs + 2 pyro and meanwhile you cannot kill them while they keep getting immume, immume, frost nova, frost nova, cone of cold, cone of cold, blizzard, blizzard, 8 armor, 8 armor.
I refuse to buy more cards just so i can play a mage deck, even though i hate playing mage cause it feels so cheap just to rank up.
only times i rank up is against non mages :P
Matches against mages are still one of my best matchup but it's so boring playing against them.
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