I recently played a priest and barely eeked out a win after fighting off half of my deck's strongest cards and it has got to be one of the most annoying/puzzling game mechanics in hearthstone. While I won't go as far to say that these cards are imbalanced (since, yes, they could copy weaker cards just as much as strong ones) I just don't think it is a good game mechanic.
1. Copying another players cards or taking them via mind control is like playing yourself rather than playing an opponent. They are playing your cards vs you and thus you need to make your own cards even stronger in many cases just to deal with them.
2. Does anyone honestly think mind control or thought stealing when thinking of a "priest"? It just does not fit the overall theme of what you would think a "priest" should be. When I think priest I think of the card names like holy nova or healer, "mind control" and "thought steal" sound like things a hypnotist or psychic would do, not a priest. I think if they gave them a 10 mana AoE that did 6 damage to all that could replace mind control and still keep priest relevant. Heck, you could even call it "wrath of god" sounds much more like a priest card than mind control.
3. It robs players that play priest of having good class cards because essentially they are using their "class cards" to steal other classes cards. Replacing these with minions or spells that fit more with the priest theme would not only make the priest a stronger class, but would make it so their class cards are theirs instead of taking other players cards.
While it is certainly not the worst thing in the world, I do hope it gets changed both for players of other classes who are sick of fighting their own minions and for priests which for this very reason are almost non-existent in the current meta past level 10.
Those cards are the reason I love priest. I'll just address each of your points one by one.
1. This isn't the same as playing against yourself. You are playing against a priest running cards from other classes, which creates new scenarios. For example, a priest using Thoughtsteal on a paladin could end up playing a sweet combo in the form of Aldor Peacekeeper + Cabal Shadow Priest. Some other cards are a lot worse outside their original deck, like Grommash Hellscream, so you need to get a bit creative, maybe find a way around it using Circle of Healing alongside Wild Pyromancer or Auchenai Soulpriest. You often get to discover new synergies that would otherwise be impossible due to class restrictions.
3. Thoughtseize is my favourite card in the entire game, and Mind Control as well as Mind Vision are pretty high up there. So no, I wouldn't trade those for "better" cards. Though, I wouldn't mind replacing Inner Fire and Divine Spirit for something good to play on turn 2...
It is also possible to use these cards in a way that minimize their randomness. One of the things I liked to do early in beta was run Mind Control and Mind Vision in the same deck. The opposing player would frequently hold back there biggest drop(s) until they had a way to deal with them to avoid giving you a freebee with Mind Control. When I noticed they were holding back a card, I would use Mind Vision and often get a copy of their big drop. Which in turn would often force their hand into dropping their own, which I would promptly Mind Control. Granted, this was an early beta strategy that I think would be less effective now, but these are the kinds of things to keep in mind when trying to maximize the value out of these kinds of cards.
My problem with thoughtsteal is a huge RNG factor. I'm not a fan of RNG in that kind of games at all
Yesterday my opponent used thoughtsteal turn 5 and finished my 4 3 azure drake with frostbolt, I knew he had no answers to Cairne, so I played him the next turn, and what do you think happened? He polymorphed him smh... 2 turns after he copied rag from my deck. You physically can't play around this card since it could copy anything from your deck - from some useless 2 1 to wildpyro + equality for example. The odds are small, but they are still there and this is why I hate this card. This card is an ultimate YOLO card for priests. Also, its ALWAYS 2 for 1. The only example when thoughtsteal is 1 for 1 when you copy some class card like deadly poison or shield slam.
My problem with thoughtsteal is a huge RNG factor. I'm not a fan of RNG in that kind of games at all
Yesterday my opponent used thoughtsteal turn 5 and finished my 4 3 azure drake with frostbolt, I knew he had no answers to Cairne, so I played him the next turn, and what do you think happened? He polymorphed him smh... 2 turns after he copied rag from my deck. You phisically can't play around this card since it could copy anything from your deck - from some useless 2 1 to wildpyro + equality for example. The odds are small, but they are still there and this is why I hate this card. This card is an ultimate YOLO card for priests. Also, its ALWAYS 2 for 1. The only example when thoughtsteal is 1 for 1 when you copy some class card like deadly poison or shield slam.
I have no problems with mindcontrol tho
I feel your pain, they always get my best cards too... I had Cenarius stolen the other day, and since my deck is so strong, they are almost guaranteed to get something useful.
@Tackman: I don't play WoW either so that is news to me that a priest could use mind control, so I guess that makes sense.. I still disagree with you on the first point, in that you are playing yourself when they use your cards. Just because those cards open new possibilities for cross-class combinations does not change the fact that they are playing you with cards from your deck. Which is essentially playing against a hybrid priest/druid deck. I just don't find it fun to play someone using my cards, it is not a very creative style of play, and priests are using their opponents cards because they don't have any good priest minion cards to use. In my eyes that is a lame mechanic, but obviously everyone is entitled to their opinion and if you like those cards power to you. I'd rather use cards I put into my deck than my opponents, but hey that's just me.
Well the comforting thing is I don't see a whole lot of priest where I'm ranked currently so it is a rare issue. Generally the better players are running aggro hunter or handlock anyways.
The better players play Hunter or Handlock? You dont see priests because it takes so much out of you to grind with them, it's always a grueling match. You guys need to start brushing up your WoW lore because the Classes, abilities and cards are all based on it, so if you know what a class can and cannot do, you will know what to expect from its cards.
I can understand priests having Mind Vision and even Mind Control since priests in WoW can do both of those. I disagree with thoughtsteal though as there is no priest spell in WoW that does that. I think thoughtsteal should be removed in favor of something more beneficial to the priest since they are basing the skills and spells in Hearthstone on the parent game. If it were, every other class would be screaming foul play for whatever reason.
I recently played a priest and barely eeked out a win after fighting off half of my deck's strongest cards and it has got to be one of the most annoying/puzzling game mechanics in hearthstone. While I won't go as far to say that these cards are imbalanced (since, yes, they could copy weaker cards just as much as strong ones) I just don't think it is a good game mechanic.
1. Copying another players cards or taking them via mind control is like playing yourself rather than playing an opponent. They are playing your cards vs you and thus you need to make your own cards even stronger in many cases just to deal with them.
2. Does anyone honestly think mind control or thought stealing when thinking of a "priest"? It just does not fit the overall theme of what you would think a "priest" should be. When I think priest I think of the card names like holy nova or healer, "mind control" and "thought steal" sound like things a hypnotist or psychic would do, not a priest. I think if they gave them a 10 mana AoE that did 6 damage to all that could replace mind control and still keep priest relevant. Heck, you could even call it "wrath of god" sounds much more like a priest card than mind control.
3. It robs players that play priest of having good class cards because essentially they are using their "class cards" to steal other classes cards. Replacing these with minions or spells that fit more with the priest theme would not only make the priest a stronger class, but would make it so their class cards are theirs instead of taking other players cards.
While it is certainly not the worst thing in the world, I do hope it gets changed both for players of other classes who are sick of fighting their own minions and for priests which for this very reason are almost non-existent in the current meta past level 10.
Those cards are the reason I love priest. I'll just address each of your points one by one.
1. This isn't the same as playing against yourself. You are playing against a priest running cards from other classes, which creates new scenarios. For example, a priest using Thoughtsteal on a paladin could end up playing a sweet combo in the form of Aldor Peacekeeper + Cabal Shadow Priest. Some other cards are a lot worse outside their original deck, like Grommash Hellscream, so you need to get a bit creative, maybe find a way around it using Circle of Healing alongside Wild Pyromancer or Auchenai Soulpriest. You often get to discover new synergies that would otherwise be impossible due to class restrictions.
2. I too thought those spells didn't feel very "priesty." However, the Hearthstone website had an article on Anduin Wrynn, and he is apparently able to use Mind Control. Having not played WoW, I don't know much about its lore, but I suppose that explains it.
Link: http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/12841351/anduin-wrynn-the-priest-2-18-2014
3. Thoughtseize is my favourite card in the entire game, and Mind Control as well as Mind Vision are pretty high up there. So no, I wouldn't trade those for "better" cards. Though, I wouldn't mind replacing Inner Fire and Divine Spirit for something good to play on turn 2...
It is also possible to use these cards in a way that minimize their randomness. One of the things I liked to do early in beta was run Mind Control and Mind Vision in the same deck. The opposing player would frequently hold back there biggest drop(s) until they had a way to deal with them to avoid giving you a freebee with Mind Control. When I noticed they were holding back a card, I would use Mind Vision and often get a copy of their big drop. Which in turn would often force their hand into dropping their own, which I would promptly Mind Control. Granted, this was an early beta strategy that I think would be less effective now, but these are the kinds of things to keep in mind when trying to maximize the value out of these kinds of cards.
My problem with thoughtsteal is a huge RNG factor. I'm not a fan of RNG in that kind of games at all
Yesterday my opponent used thoughtsteal turn 5 and finished my 4 3 azure drake with frostbolt, I knew he had no answers to Cairne, so I played him the next turn, and what do you think happened? He polymorphed him smh... 2 turns after he copied rag from my deck. You physically can't play around this card since it could copy anything from your deck - from some useless 2 1 to wildpyro + equality for example. The odds are small, but they are still there and this is why I hate this card. This card is an ultimate YOLO card for priests. Also, its ALWAYS 2 for 1. The only example when thoughtsteal is 1 for 1 when you copy some class card like deadly poison or shield slam.
I have no problems with mindcontrol tho
EU
I feel your pain, they always get my best cards too... I had Cenarius stolen the other day, and since my deck is so strong, they are almost guaranteed to get something useful.
@Tackman: I don't play WoW either so that is news to me that a priest could use mind control, so I guess that makes sense.. I still disagree with you on the first point, in that you are playing yourself when they use your cards. Just because those cards open new possibilities for cross-class combinations does not change the fact that they are playing you with cards from your deck. Which is essentially playing against a hybrid priest/druid deck. I just don't find it fun to play someone using my cards, it is not a very creative style of play, and priests are using their opponents cards because they don't have any good priest minion cards to use. In my eyes that is a lame mechanic, but obviously everyone is entitled to their opinion and if you like those cards power to you. I'd rather use cards I put into my deck than my opponents, but hey that's just me.
Well the comforting thing is I don't see a whole lot of priest where I'm ranked currently so it is a rare issue. Generally the better players are running aggro hunter or handlock anyways.
The better players play Hunter or Handlock? You dont see priests because it takes so much out of you to grind with them, it's always a grueling match. You guys need to start brushing up your WoW lore because the Classes, abilities and cards are all based on it, so if you know what a class can and cannot do, you will know what to expect from its cards.
I can understand priests having Mind Vision and even Mind Control since priests in WoW can do both of those. I disagree with thoughtsteal though as there is no priest spell in WoW that does that. I think thoughtsteal should be removed in favor of something more beneficial to the priest since they are basing the skills and spells in Hearthstone on the parent game. If it were, every other class would be screaming foul play for whatever reason.