so given your stance on the issue of using assistance to win games would you also say that you approve of botting in HS. After all its a tool to get you lots of gold or to even reach legend. you turned on the bot and its on your account you could do it yourself but its just helping you out. right? right? what could possibly be wrong with using programs to assist you. oh wait its cheating!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This has got to be the dumbest argument. Why shouldn't people use every tool at their disposal to improve their performance if it doesn't break any rules? I guess when you do/did math tests you also refused to use a calculator because it would be cheating...
holy ignorance batman.... also civil engineers are just over qualified construction workers. like hmmm we need to dig a ditch lets get the civil engineer over here to see what he thinks needs to happen to make this ditch work. if any job could be done without a calculator yours would be it. county clerks run more calculations than you. get out of here and go run some arena with all your assists on, smart guy.
Ad Hominem. And I doubt you're an engineer since you seem to lack both the respect and the understanding of it's several branches.
Don't bother engaging with Stubble, I made that mistake once in a thread, and its not worth it. He seems to fabricate a lot of things and hijack threads. I'm pretty sure he's just a kid spitballing things that he thinks sound true-ish.
To comment on heartharena, this is an excellent guide if you're just starting out in arena, but if you play a decent amount, it doesn't take long before you don't need it anymore. That being said, I have now heard exactly one person of the opinion that using assistance on drafting is cheating . . .
I have noticed a uptick in arena difficultly lately, but I thought it was just an anomaly. More interestingly, I've noticed a lot of my opponents lately have been people I've played against before, which makes me think the pool of arena players has shrunk to those who like playing it a lot. Smaller more experienced pool may explain stiffer arena competition.
i got loud before just like im getting loud now cuz you are just wrong and you are too stupid too see it. just for you and your buddy i decided to go grab the official rule regarding 3rd party apps used in HS:
You agree that you will not (a) obtain or attempt to obtain any information from the Service or any Game using any method not expressly permitted by Blizzard; (b) intercept, examine or otherwise observe any proprietary communications protocol used by a Game client or the Service, whether through the use of a network analyzer, packet sniffer or other device; (c) useany third-party software to collect information from or through a Game client or the Service, including without limitation information about your character, any Account registered to you, virtual items, other players, or other Game data.
Bam there it is. black and white. no if ands or buts. i am right you are wrong sooo soooo wrong as always. the only reason that bliz doesnt crack down is because the resources required to stop these programs isnt worth it and another will rise to take its place.
Im glad you decided to chime in so i would stop being lazy and look it up. so yeah if you are using a data analyzing software you are 100% cheating. Also Spectre RNG still equals a less skill its just too bad i cant find it write down in black and white so i can finally get you to except that you are wrong.
Also @ OP im sorry for stealing your thread. i just cant except stupid people spewing misinformation... its my forum pet peeve.
(c) useany third-party software to collect information from or through a Game client or the Service, including without limitation information about your character, any Account registered to you, virtual items, other players, or other Game data.
Except you're not using any third party software to collect information from the game client. You're using someone's (subjective) card rating algorithm.
okay and what are you using that third party's software for? is it to gather information about your character? about your cards? about the arena? So i guess you could say you are using heartharena to obtain information about the game and that is covered under the part you forgot to quote: You agree that you will not (a) obtain or attempt to obtain any information from the Service or any Game using any method not expressly permitted by Blizzard.
Just cuz someone made an app that doesnt actively integrate into the game doesnt mean that the TOS wasnt violated. It means some programmer violated the TOS so you could carry on in blissful ignorance not knowing you are cheating the whole time. Even stat tracker apps are against the TOS and they dont even assist you at all let alone draft decks for you.
Whats generally accepted by the community are apps that do things that you could do with a pen and a pad. if its an app that does something you couldnt do yourself not only is it a voilation of the TOS its just distasteful. Anyway you are cheating whether you know it or not it doesnt matter. Shame!!!!!
If after this post you are still not convinced i officially decline to entertain this ridiculous argument further cuz i feel really cruddy for treading on someones thread as much as i have.
okay and what are you using that third party's software for? is it to gather information about your character? about your cards? about the arena? So i guess you could say you are using heartharena to obtain information about the game and that is covered under the part you forgot to quote: You agree that you will not (a) obtain or attempt to obtain any information from the Service or any Game using any method not expressly permitted by Blizzard.
Just cuz someone made an app that doesnt actively integrate into the game doesnt mean that the TOS wasnt violated. It means some programmer violated the TOS so you could carry on in blissful ignorance not knowing you are cheating the whole time. Even stat tracker apps are against the TOS and they dont even assist you at all let alone draft decks for you.
Whats generally accepted by the community are apps that do things that you could do with a pen and a pad. if its an app that does something you couldnt do yourself not only is it a voilation of the TOS its just distasteful. Anyway you are cheating whether you know it or not it doesnt matter. Shame!!!!!
If after this post you are still not convinced i officially decline to entertain this ridiculous argument further cuz i feel really cruddy for treading on someones thread as much as i have.
@ again im sorry OP no more i promise.
Yeah and imagine my shock and horror when I found out that there are some hearthstone players who willingly violate the ToS by leaking information about the cards and arena in the form of youtube videos and guides for people who abuse them to get information they couldn't get by themselves! And they obviously aren't "expressly permitted by Blizzard" because I haven't found a single blue post that said it was allowed! Disgusting.
Well, at least these scumbag pieces of filth don't gather on a website to share information and statistics to let other people know what they possibly wouldn't know by themselves using a pen and paper, that would really be just like Sodom and Gomorrah.
P. S. I even saw multiple cases of people asking on a forum what card(s) the forum would pick in a certain scenario, or the same thing asked at a live stream; what a stomach-turning, repugnant display of blatant cheating, I'm just speechless.
wow... well anyway you have your answer lambmine. either cheat or just get better from learning the game. or possibly cheat till you learn the game. you could read the forums or practice or just get a bot to do it for you. whatever floats your boat.
in any case its best to have a bot do it for you since there is no point in putting yourself at a disadvantage. in fact slap on as many deck counting, game calculating bots you can find and i guarantee you will play better maybe even go 12 and out. As an added bonus apparently bots dont violate the TOS anymore since you could just ask a pro to do those things for you. so yeah no down side. bot it up lol.
Am I wrong to say that you are paired up in arena against someone with the same score? Like if you are 2-0 in arena your opponent will be 2-0 as well? this way there will be always people getting 12 wins, (1 every (dont mind my math, im not that strong) 3*3*12=108)?
So if 1 in every 108 people get 12 wins, there will be a good number of people with 11 and even a better amount of 10...
So my understanding is that there is a large group of people playing arena that are a lot better then us! And with us I mean myself as well, cant get more then 3 wins regularylyrylyish (:S) sometimes a 5 or 6 and even my personal record of 7 was a long time ago...
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To live is to suffer, to survive is to find meaning in the suffer!
Am I wrong to say that you are paired up in arena against someone with the same score?
No you're not wrong about that, the Arena matchmaking system will attempt to pair you with someone that has as close to the same score as yours within a reasonable queue time, this the reason there's a much higher chance of facing the same opponent twice at 10+ wins, simply fewer opponents to choose from.
As for the topic in here, Arena really hasn't become any harder if you ask me, Mage is much less dominant though. I've been playing Arena at a gold profit for a year or so now, sitting on 9k gold on EU and 4k on NA after buying all expansions with gold aswell, I guess some people might have a hard time adapting as new cards are added and the general player gets tools like Heartharena to help them.
If you're then at the same time not very good at Arena but refuse to use those tools while claiming they're cheating like some people in this thread, well that's your own loss cause you might just learn something from the suggestions you get from them. Heartharena doesn't play for you, it merely suggests cards to pick and shows you a fantastic overview of the deck once it's finished. The few times I've tried it, there were several times I disagreed with the program - it has a habbit of chosing your "archetype" very early on and suggest picks thereafter, whereas I will mostly use the first 15-picks or so just trying to get -solid- cards and focus on curve/synergies later on if possible.
it was obvious this would come. bad players simply lost interest in the arena of they cant break even and 3rd party tools and more randomness in the draft with more expansions help average players to get good decks to beat better players with worse decks more often. what did you expect was gonna happen?
by the way first time hearing about heartharena. I think you crushed part of my soul. netdecking is bad enough i thought i was safe from cheaters in arena. clearly not. im so mad at how lazy people are. grrrr. :(
This has got to be the dumbest argument. Why shouldn't people use every tool at their disposal to improve their performance if it doesn't break any rules? I guess when you do/did math tests you also refused to use a calculator because it would be cheating...
its a matter of pride thats all. some people like to accomplish things for themselves and others would just much rather have everything given to them. if your lazy and just want to cheat thats fine its not like HS can regulate it. but every time you win just remember you didnt really win. you didnt really design or draft that deck you took someones elses work and did the easy part cuz you werent good enough on your own.
Also im an electrical engineer today because my math teachers in school banned calculators cuz they were in fact cheating our education and what i surprise i learned how to do my own work and now i reap the rewards at 25 an hour.
Should've banned books on grammar and punctuation too, that teacher. :P
I'm active daily on at least 2 different arena forums and 3 hearthstone sub-reddits. HearthArena has been around for almost 7 months now and all combined I've seen it either mentioned, brought up, or being the topic of conversations hundreds if not even thousands of times by now. You are literally the very first person I've seen ever claiming that using heartharena is a form of cheating. Yes there are players who don't like that programs like HA are around and popular, and even I have slightly mixed feelings about it sometimes. But this is first time I've seen anyone being just so clueless about what is considered cheating in games nowadays.
actually iv been exploring all the different bots available this afternoon and on heartharenas FAQ page it says that the software is currently in a grey area as far as legality goes. and it goes on to say that they are planning on getting "expressed consent" from blizzard before they continue on to their full release. so yeah from the horses mouth heartharena is breaking the TOS. Im not surprised that youve been around as long as you have and didnt know it violated the user agreement. For every right answer on this site there is seriously at least 3 people who will contradict it and then invalidate that person... cough... cough...
as far as what is considered cheating i dont think its change much over the years. cheating is using something unavailable to other players to give you an edge in a competition. hmmm yup deck drafting software seems to fit the bill.
oh im sorry i thought this was a forum not language class. maybe i should start writing out cuz as because just for you. i wouldnt want to confuse anyone with misspellings and missed punctuation marks. especially after todays insane display of ignorance on this thread.
oh im sorry i thought this was a forum not language class. maybe i should start writing out cuz as because just for you. i wouldnt want to confuse anyone with misspellings and missed punctuation marks. especially after todays insane display of ignorance on this thread.
I feel arena isn't that difficult after The necessary pratice required to determine how to best build a mana curve, draft correctly, and looking at your deck to determine which cards will combo well with the cards previously drafted. I average 9 wins with the occasional 12. With that being said play more and you'll eventually win more. I'm at the point in my arena career where I just do it for free packs of cards and infinite runs.
I use heartharena, but not to pick the cards. I make my own choices and then check what the arena sight suggested to compare the picks. Usually my picks are comparable, but on average I make three choices different from what the arena site suggested per run.
The advantage is that I can then monitor my choices and I can check whether my choice or the choice that was suggested worked better in the various situations. Does it help me at all these days, no because I make my own choices. It did however help me in the beginning to show me that my choices was to slow.
Something that I would have learned on my own in a week or two more. I mean when I was new I went for the most spectacular cards, but you will quickly learn on your own that a lack of early game can prevent you from getting to the fancy late game cards.
What I have found is that when the choice I make is different from the site it is usually with the bad card choices. Where none of the three choices are gonna win you the game.
It doesn't. It says that programs that pulls data from the client, and then gives examples of them, are in the gray zone. It states this in regard to why they aren't developing automatic card entry from the client.
Also, you put yourself into this flailing attempt at redeeming yourself when you "attacked" how other players play the game, try to not do that if you don't want your stupid side to show.
examples of a grey area: 1. using virtual mouse hooks so they dont have to plug into the game. 2. using advanced algorithms to optimize moves/ picks. 3. using screen recognition to again avoid getting caught... idk how many times i have to say it but an app doesnt have to integrate into the game to be against the rules.
but im tired of dealing with wave after wave of ignorance. maybe im too blunt with the truth and you feel compelled to ignore common sense and say something stupid to "take down the jerk." but using programs to make you play better than you are is cheating. its black and white. so quit being dumb.
Heartharena is a website. You said a website is against the TOS and then starts mentioning techniques that no website has. Is it clear enough to you that you are wrong now? Do I need to explain the situation in simple english? Please, just get over it. You were wrong. Enough. (Please don't, I need some faith in humanity left.)
hmm yes because websites clearly dont run apps... (wtf?) i actually found another website that will run the probability of my next top deck so i can optimize my draw and RNG plays. it doesnt touch the HS client so it must not be cheating.
i mean seriously the level of bigotry is mind blowing.
Heartharena is a website. You said a website is against the TOS and then starts mentioning techniques that no website has. Is it clear enough to you that you are wrong now? Do I need to explain the situation in simple english? Please, just get over it. You were wrong. Enough. (Please don't, I need some faith in humanity left.)
hmm yes because websites clearly dont run apps... (wtf?) i actually found another website that will run the probability of my next top deck so i can optimize my draw and RNG plays. it doesnt touch the HS client so it must not be cheating.
i mean seriously the level of bigotry is mind blowing.
Full Definition of BIGOT
: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices;especially: one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.
Thank you merriam webster. Now read the first line, Stubblestubble, if you don't realize that the only person in this thread that sentence actually applies to is you, I think we should all just stop talking right about now.
And yes, I agree the level of it is mind blowing, from your side that is.
Heartharena is a website. You said a website is against the TOS and then starts mentioning techniques that no website has. Is it clear enough to you that you are wrong now? Do I need to explain the situation in simple english? Please, just get over it. You were wrong. Enough. (Please don't, I need some faith in humanity left.)
hmm yes because websites clearly dont run apps... (wtf?) i actually found another website that will run the probability of my next top deck so i can optimize my draw and RNG plays. it doesnt touch the HS client so it must not be cheating.
i mean seriously the level of bigotry is mind blowing.
And you call yourself an Engineer... You don't need a website, application or even a calculator to figure out the probability of your next topdeck, you can do it all in your head in a fraction of second, here I'll show you:
P(Drawing card x)=(Number of x cards left in your deck)/(Total of remaining cards left in your deck)
See? Simple. (Inb4: But knowing I have x/y chances of drawing next card is not the same as knowing I have x/100 chances).
I don't even know how this discussion has gone for this long. It's just ridiculous to think this kind of apps could be against the TOS. If you asked your friend which card was better, x or y, and he gave you an answer, would that be against the TOS? Ofc not. Now what you have in this kind of websites is the aforementioned example taken to the extreme. You have cards categorized by other human beings in order of perceived value which is translated by whichever comparative number you get on your screen. This is not OBJECTIVE, you cannot mine card value from the client, this is only a SUBJECTIVE interpretation of the value of the cards. The information you get might even actually be wrong (Gasp!).
Heartharena is a website. You said a website is against the TOS and then starts mentioning techniques that no website has. Is it clear enough to you that you are wrong now? Do I need to explain the situation in simple english? Please, just get over it. You were wrong. Enough. (Please don't, I need some faith in humanity left.)
hmm yes because websites clearly dont run apps... (wtf?) i actually found another website that will run the probability of my next top deck so i can optimize my draw and RNG plays. it doesnt touch the HS client so it must not be cheating.
i mean seriously the level of bigotry is mind blowing.
Based on all the nonsense you keep posting, I can't really decide if you are trolling or an idiot.
i'm going with Hanlon's razor in this case; "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." I don't think he is a full fledged troll, but it is clear that it is pointless to continue.
What a great line :D I must remember that one haha
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Don't bother engaging with Stubble, I made that mistake once in a thread, and its not worth it. He seems to fabricate a lot of things and hijack threads. I'm pretty sure he's just a kid spitballing things that he thinks sound true-ish.
To comment on heartharena, this is an excellent guide if you're just starting out in arena, but if you play a decent amount, it doesn't take long before you don't need it anymore. That being said, I have now heard exactly one person of the opinion that using assistance on drafting is cheating . . .
I have noticed a uptick in arena difficultly lately, but I thought it was just an anomaly. More interestingly, I've noticed a lot of my opponents lately have been people I've played against before, which makes me think the pool of arena players has shrunk to those who like playing it a lot. Smaller more experienced pool may explain stiffer arena competition.
i got loud before just like im getting loud now cuz you are just wrong and you are too stupid too see it. just for you and your buddy i decided to go grab the official rule regarding 3rd party apps used in HS:
You agree that you will not (a) obtain or attempt to obtain any information from the Service or any Game using any method not expressly permitted by Blizzard; (b) intercept, examine or otherwise observe any proprietary communications protocol used by a Game client or the Service, whether through the use of a network analyzer, packet sniffer or other device; (c) useany third-party software to collect information from or through a Game client or the Service, including without limitation information about your character, any Account registered to you, virtual items, other players, or other Game data.
Bam there it is. black and white. no if ands or buts. i am right you are wrong sooo soooo wrong as always. the only reason that bliz doesnt crack down is because the resources required to stop these programs isnt worth it and another will rise to take its place.
Im glad you decided to chime in so i would stop being lazy and look it up. so yeah if you are using a data analyzing software you are 100% cheating. Also Spectre RNG still equals a less skill its just too bad i cant find it write down in black and white so i can finally get you to except that you are wrong.
Also @ OP im sorry for stealing your thread. i just cant except stupid people spewing misinformation... its my forum pet peeve.
If you can't beat them, join them
Except you're not using any third party software to collect information from the game client. You're using someone's (subjective) card rating algorithm.
okay and what are you using that third party's software for? is it to gather information about your character? about your cards? about the arena? So i guess you could say you are using heartharena to obtain information about the game and that is covered under the part you forgot to quote: You agree that you will not (a) obtain or attempt to obtain any information from the Service or any Game using any method not expressly permitted by Blizzard.
Just cuz someone made an app that doesnt actively integrate into the game doesnt mean that the TOS wasnt violated. It means some programmer violated the TOS so you could carry on in blissful ignorance not knowing you are cheating the whole time. Even stat tracker apps are against the TOS and they dont even assist you at all let alone draft decks for you.
Whats generally accepted by the community are apps that do things that you could do with a pen and a pad. if its an app that does something you couldnt do yourself not only is it a voilation of the TOS its just distasteful. Anyway you are cheating whether you know it or not it doesnt matter. Shame!!!!!
If after this post you are still not convinced i officially decline to entertain this ridiculous argument further cuz i feel really cruddy for treading on someones thread as much as i have.
@ again im sorry OP no more i promise.
If you can't beat them, join them
Yeah and imagine my shock and horror when I found out that there are some hearthstone players who willingly violate the ToS by leaking information about the cards and arena in the form of youtube videos and guides for people who abuse them to get information they couldn't get by themselves! And they obviously aren't "expressly permitted by Blizzard" because I haven't found a single blue post that said it was allowed! Disgusting.
Well, at least these scumbag pieces of filth don't gather on a website to share information and statistics to let other people know what they possibly wouldn't know by themselves using a pen and paper, that would really be just like Sodom and Gomorrah.
P. S. I even saw multiple cases of people asking on a forum what card(s) the forum would pick in a certain scenario, or the same thing asked at a live stream; what a stomach-turning, repugnant display of blatant cheating, I'm just speechless.
wow... well anyway you have your answer lambmine. either cheat or just get better from learning the game. or possibly cheat till you learn the game. you could read the forums or practice or just get a bot to do it for you. whatever floats your boat.
in any case its best to have a bot do it for you since there is no point in putting yourself at a disadvantage. in fact slap on as many deck counting, game calculating bots you can find and i guarantee you will play better maybe even go 12 and out. As an added bonus apparently bots dont violate the TOS anymore since you could just ask a pro to do those things for you. so yeah no down side. bot it up lol.
If you can't beat them, join them
Am I wrong to say that you are paired up in arena against someone with the same score? Like if you are 2-0 in arena your opponent will be 2-0 as well? this way there will be always people getting 12 wins, (1 every (dont mind my math, im not that strong) 3*3*12=108)?
So if 1 in every 108 people get 12 wins, there will be a good number of people with 11 and even a better amount of 10...
So my understanding is that there is a large group of people playing arena that are a lot better then us! And with us I mean myself as well, cant get more then 3 wins regularylyrylyish (:S) sometimes a 5 or 6 and even my personal record of 7 was a long time ago...
To live is to suffer, to survive is to find meaning in the suffer!
No you're not wrong about that, the Arena matchmaking system will attempt to pair you with someone that has as close to the same score as yours within a reasonable queue time, this the reason there's a much higher chance of facing the same opponent twice at 10+ wins, simply fewer opponents to choose from.
As for the topic in here, Arena really hasn't become any harder if you ask me, Mage is much less dominant though. I've been playing Arena at a gold profit for a year or so now, sitting on 9k gold on EU and 4k on NA after buying all expansions with gold aswell, I guess some people might have a hard time adapting as new cards are added and the general player gets tools like Heartharena to help them.
If you're then at the same time not very good at Arena but refuse to use those tools while claiming they're cheating like some people in this thread, well that's your own loss cause you might just learn something from the suggestions you get from them. Heartharena doesn't play for you, it merely suggests cards to pick and shows you a fantastic overview of the deck once it's finished. The few times I've tried it, there were several times I disagreed with the program - it has a habbit of chosing your "archetype" very early on and suggest picks thereafter, whereas I will mostly use the first 15-picks or so just trying to get -solid- cards and focus on curve/synergies later on if possible.
it was obvious this would come. bad players simply lost interest in the arena of they cant break even and 3rd party tools and more randomness in the draft with more expansions help average players to get good decks to beat better players with worse decks more often. what did you expect was gonna happen?
Should've banned books on grammar and punctuation too, that teacher. :P
actually iv been exploring all the different bots available this afternoon and on heartharenas FAQ page it says that the software is currently in a grey area as far as legality goes. and it goes on to say that they are planning on getting "expressed consent" from blizzard before they continue on to their full release. so yeah from the horses mouth heartharena is breaking the TOS. Im not surprised that youve been around as long as you have and didnt know it violated the user agreement. For every right answer on this site there is seriously at least 3 people who will contradict it and then invalidate that person... cough... cough...
as far as what is considered cheating i dont think its change much over the years. cheating is using something unavailable to other players to give you an edge in a competition. hmmm yup deck drafting software seems to fit the bill.
If you can't beat them, join them
oh im sorry i thought this was a forum not language class. maybe i should start writing out cuz as because just for you. i wouldnt want to confuse anyone with misspellings and missed punctuation marks. especially after todays insane display of ignorance on this thread.
If you can't beat them, join them
Stool brory, co.
I feel arena isn't that difficult after The necessary pratice required to determine how to best build a mana curve, draft correctly, and looking at your deck to determine which cards will combo well with the cards previously drafted. I average 9 wins with the occasional 12. With that being said play more and you'll eventually win more. I'm at the point in my arena career where I just do it for free packs of cards and infinite runs.
I use heartharena, but not to pick the cards. I make my own choices and then check what the arena sight suggested to compare the picks. Usually my picks are comparable, but on average I make three choices different from what the arena site suggested per run.
The advantage is that I can then monitor my choices and I can check whether my choice or the choice that was suggested worked better in the various situations. Does it help me at all these days, no because I make my own choices. It did however help me in the beginning to show me that my choices was to slow.
Something that I would have learned on my own in a week or two more. I mean when I was new I went for the most spectacular cards, but you will quickly learn on your own that a lack of early game can prevent you from getting to the fancy late game cards.
What I have found is that when the choice I make is different from the site it is usually with the bad card choices. Where none of the three choices are gonna win you the game.
examples of a grey area: 1. using virtual mouse hooks so they dont have to plug into the game. 2. using advanced algorithms to optimize moves/ picks. 3. using screen recognition to again avoid getting caught... idk how many times i have to say it but an app doesnt have to integrate into the game to be against the rules.
but im tired of dealing with wave after wave of ignorance. maybe im too blunt with the truth and you feel compelled to ignore common sense and say something stupid to "take down the jerk." but using programs to make you play better than you are is cheating. its black and white. so quit being dumb.
If you can't beat them, join them
hmm yes because websites clearly dont run apps... (wtf?) i actually found another website that will run the probability of my next top deck so i can optimize my draw and RNG plays. it doesnt touch the HS client so it must not be cheating.
i mean seriously the level of bigotry is mind blowing.
If you can't beat them, join them
Full Definition of BIGOT
And you call yourself an Engineer... You don't need a website, application or even a calculator to figure out the probability of your next topdeck, you can do it all in your head in a fraction of second, here I'll show you:
P(Drawing card x)=(Number of x cards left in your deck)/(Total of remaining cards left in your deck)
See? Simple. (Inb4: But knowing I have x/y chances of drawing next card is not the same as knowing I have x/100 chances).
I don't even know how this discussion has gone for this long. It's just ridiculous to think this kind of apps could be against the TOS. If you asked your friend which card was better, x or y, and he gave you an answer, would that be against the TOS? Ofc not. Now what you have in this kind of websites is the aforementioned example taken to the extreme. You have cards categorized by other human beings in order of perceived value which is translated by whichever comparative number you get on your screen. This is not OBJECTIVE, you cannot mine card value from the client, this is only a SUBJECTIVE interpretation of the value of the cards. The information you get might even actually be wrong (Gasp!).
What a great line :D I must remember that one haha