Arena Round Picks are controlled as follows: 1. 10x Rare/Epic Picks 1a. 4x Rare/Epic Picks are between Class cards only and include the Class Legendary as a possible choice. 1b. 6x Rare/Epic Picks are between Standard cards only. 2. 20x Common Picks. 2a. 8x Common Picks are between Class cards only. 2b. 12x Common Picks are between standard cards only. 3. Standard Legendaries have a chance to be all 3 choices in Rare/Epic Standard round. 4. Common Pick rounds have a chance to be upgraded to a Rare/Epic Pick round. 5. Upgraded rounds have a graphic announcement.
Most people disagreed, saying the current random system is quirky but they find it fun and found controlled rounds to much of a change to Blizzard to ever implement.
So I have a new suggestion, what about having 5-10 Vitos. Similar to the way quests are now, when presented your 3 picks you can choose to Vito one pick per round - removing that one card from the choices and being given a new one. Why? Random is random and Arena is not only random but it also has a price to enter. Your deck quality can be trash, like a Warrior without weapons and with a Vito you can at least try and get rid of the useless picks for a chance of success.
Anyways just an idea to improve deck quality and randomness in Arena.
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Nozdormu wins you every game where you opponent has to go to the bathroom on turn 9.
I like the idea of having a set amount of commons,rares,epic, and legendaries. Im sure people will disagree but its just an idea that is being brought up and thats exactly what blizzard wants from their players.
I think this is a good idea because there are times when I draft a deck that is just complete trash. The first few picks I usually get the best cards of the 3 and fill in the gaps that are appropriate for my mana curve. However, the deck just isnt good enough to get 5+ wins.
There needs to be a balance between randomness and skill. With how the system is now I believe their is more randomness then there is skill which sortof takes away from the overall experience.
There really isnt a downside to this system besides it making arenas less random but it needs this balance so you can even have a chance to present your skill in each match and let the randomness come in drawing your hand/cards in the actual match.
I personally think rewards should go down across the board. Right now arena is too good relative to buying packs, and it's too late to adjust the price on packs since there is no more wipe.
Back to the original topic, vetos would help balance wise, but IMO really isn't needed. The extra time and complexity just doesn't seem worth it. There's definitely RNG in the draft, but in the long term it's generally not too bad. Even as someone in the positive (about 4k) on gold, I still see that many of my losses come from mistakes rather than bad draft or bad luck. So TBH I feel like there is more than enough skill gap to cover for most losses anyways, regardless of draft.
On another note, putting a set number of cards of each rarity level really sounds like quite possibly the worse idea ever. Not really sure how people would even think that would help balance arena better.
You say its a bad idea to put a set number of each rarity in your deck when drafting but there is no reasoning behind why it is.
Like frankthebank was saying about the two legendaries he came across with having nothing but rares. Everyone can agree this happens very often where your opponents cards are valued so much higher that its almost impossible to play anything.
5 - 10 vetoes is way too much IMO. If they were going to do something like that I'd say 3 at the most. Arena drafting is supposed to be a skill. You have to find a way to make do with what you're offered.
The only enhancement I've ever really felt that they could do without changing things too much is giving you the option at the end of all your picks to go back to a previous round and change your pick. For instance if you were really unsure if you'd get enough spells to make a +spell damage minion worth while or not early in your draft by the end you might have really wanted to change your pick so you'd get one round where you could go back and switch. It wouldn't be for a brand new set of cards only for the same cards you were already offered.
The only enhancement I've ever really felt that they could do without changing things too much is giving you the option at the end of all your picks to go back to a previous round and change your pick. For instance if you were really unsure if you'd get enough spells to make a +spell damage minion worth while or not early in your draft by the end you might have really wanted to change your pick so you'd get one round where you could go back and switch. It wouldn't be for a brand new set of cards only for the same cards you were already offered.
Why does everyone want this over complicated fix when in reality they could just add more picks you know, like every other game in the world does.
You say its a bad idea to put a set number of each rarity in your deck when drafting but there is no reasoning behind why it is.
Like frankthebank was saying about the two legendaries he came across with having nothing but rares. Everyone can agree this happens very often where your opponents cards are valued so much higher that its almost impossible to play anything.
I didn't think it needed explaining to most people, since myself and some of my friends actually joked about it when someone suggested the guranteed legendary thing on the Blizz forums before. But anyways, here's a short explanation of a couple of the many reasons as to why some of us though the idea was just so bad:
1) Range of strength between legendary cards is far too large for making guaranteed legendary viable. The moment you get a bad legendary as your guaranteed legendary, you already know immediately that you are playing behind. Giving guaranteed legendaries is just adding a crazy amount of RNG all at once.
2) Legendary cards can heavily impact deck building. By drafting a random deck, the legendary you get is very RNG based unless you start with it from the first pick.
Some players will always get lucky drafts, but at least the number that get cards like ysera, jaraxxus, or rag that can create crazy comebacks is low. If every player got a legendary, you could very well end up with a crap legendary while your chances of playing against a good legendary is much higher. That's not to mention many of the legendaries aren't even as good as certain basic/common cards anyways. Draft luck would be too heavily skewed for the players that do manage to draft a good legendary.
I originally was fine with extra picks to form your deck but upon thinking about it more the arena should stay as far away from constructed as possible. It's the skill of picking cards based on their value and not of hopes of getting something to create synergy. As far as arena being free absolutely not, in fact I agree with others that arena awards should be tuned down a bit. Also I think if they had a draft mode then it should be a true draft mode that actually costs more than arena and definitely not free.
1) Range of strength between legendary cards is far too large for making guaranteed legendary viable. The moment you get a bad legendary as your guaranteed legendary, you already know immediately that you are playing behind. Giving guaranteed legendaries is just adding a crazy amount of RNG all at once.
Its funny you say that... "The range of strength between legendary cards is far too large for making guaranteed legendary viable." It will add a crazy amount of RNG??? Guaranteeing that you will have a legendary actually lessens RNG compared to not having one at all when your opponent gets lucky and so happens to draft 1-2 legendaries. Im confused to how that creates more RNG. RNG will always be an aspect of arena which it should remain. But it defiantly doesn't increase RNG by setting a specific draft structure.
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I once suggested the following:
Arena Round Picks are controlled as follows:
1. 10x Rare/Epic Picks
1a. 4x Rare/Epic Picks are between Class cards only and include the Class Legendary as a possible choice.
1b. 6x Rare/Epic Picks are between Standard cards only.
2. 20x Common Picks.
2a. 8x Common Picks are between Class cards only.
2b. 12x Common Picks are between standard cards only.
3. Standard Legendaries have a chance to be all 3 choices in Rare/Epic Standard round.
4. Common Pick rounds have a chance to be upgraded to a Rare/Epic Pick round.
5. Upgraded rounds have a graphic announcement.
Most people disagreed, saying the current random system is quirky but they find it fun and found controlled rounds to much of a change to Blizzard to ever implement.
So I have a new suggestion, what about having 5-10 Vitos.
Similar to the way quests are now, when presented your 3 picks you can choose to Vito one pick per round - removing that one card from the choices and being given a new one.
Why? Random is random and Arena is not only random but it also has a price to enter. Your deck quality can be trash, like a Warrior without weapons and with a Vito you can at least try and get rid of the useless picks for a chance of success.
Anyways just an idea to improve deck quality and randomness in Arena.
Nozdormu wins you every game where you opponent has to go to the bathroom on turn 9.
I like the idea of having a set amount of commons,rares,epic, and legendaries. Im sure people will disagree but its just an idea that is being brought up and thats exactly what blizzard wants from their players.
I think this is a good idea because there are times when I draft a deck that is just complete trash. The first few picks I usually get the best cards of the 3 and fill in the gaps that are appropriate for my mana curve. However, the deck just isnt good enough to get 5+ wins.
There needs to be a balance between randomness and skill. With how the system is now I believe their is more randomness then there is skill which sortof takes away from the overall experience.
There really isnt a downside to this system besides it making arenas less random but it needs this balance so you can even have a chance to present your skill in each match and let the randomness come in drawing your hand/cards in the actual match.
Arena should be free and rewards should go down
There wouldn't be any risk/reward gamble if arenas were free. That would take away from working up to achieve enough gold to enter an arena.
No, definitely not. Perhaps there could be a draft mode very similar to arena that's free, but arena itself should remain unchanged.
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I personally think rewards should go down across the board. Right now arena is too good relative to buying packs, and it's too late to adjust the price on packs since there is no more wipe.
Back to the original topic, vetos would help balance wise, but IMO really isn't needed. The extra time and complexity just doesn't seem worth it. There's definitely RNG in the draft, but in the long term it's generally not too bad. Even as someone in the positive (about 4k) on gold, I still see that many of my losses come from mistakes rather than bad draft or bad luck. So TBH I feel like there is more than enough skill gap to cover for most losses anyways, regardless of draft.
On another note, putting a set number of cards of each rarity level really sounds like quite possibly the worse idea ever. Not really sure how people would even think that would help balance arena better.
Well, Tianzi, it would take away from the disheartening losses where you know that there wasn't anything you can do.
I literally just faced a mage who turned 5 a Cairne. So I remove it, then charge + Abusive sergeant Baine.
Turn 7, flamestrike (not that bad, killed 2 cards and 2 1/1 tokens).
Turn 8, Archmage - > Coin, arcane missiles x2. He now has 3 fireballs in his hand.
It's so frustrating. My deck? 0 epics, 0 legendaries and 5 rares.
What makes me mad is not that I loss... it's that the guy got 2 Legendaries and I didnt even get a rare.
You say its a bad idea to put a set number of each rarity in your deck when drafting but there is no reasoning behind why it is.
Like frankthebank was saying about the two legendaries he came across with having nothing but rares. Everyone can agree this happens very often where your opponents cards are valued so much higher that its almost impossible to play anything.
5 - 10 vetoes is way too much IMO. If they were going to do something like that I'd say 3 at the most. Arena drafting is supposed to be a skill. You have to find a way to make do with what you're offered.
The only enhancement I've ever really felt that they could do without changing things too much is giving you the option at the end of all your picks to go back to a previous round and change your pick. For instance if you were really unsure if you'd get enough spells to make a +spell damage minion worth while or not early in your draft by the end you might have really wanted to change your pick so you'd get one round where you could go back and switch. It wouldn't be for a brand new set of cards only for the same cards you were already offered.
I love this aspect of arena and learning to improve. It just makes me feel crappy when I am not offered anything close to the same.
I CAN make due with $30k/yr. It is much easier to make due with $50k/yr.
Why does everyone want this over complicated fix when in reality they could just add more picks you know, like every other game in the world does.
I didn't think it needed explaining to most people, since myself and some of my friends actually joked about it when someone suggested the guranteed legendary thing on the Blizz forums before. But anyways, here's a short explanation of a couple of the many reasons as to why some of us though the idea was just so bad:
1) Range of strength between legendary cards is far too large for making guaranteed legendary viable. The moment you get a bad legendary as your guaranteed legendary, you already know immediately that you are playing behind. Giving guaranteed legendaries is just adding a crazy amount of RNG all at once.
2) Legendary cards can heavily impact deck building. By drafting a random deck, the legendary you get is very RNG based unless you start with it from the first pick.
Some players will always get lucky drafts, but at least the number that get cards like ysera, jaraxxus, or rag that can create crazy comebacks is low. If every player got a legendary, you could very well end up with a crap legendary while your chances of playing against a good legendary is much higher. That's not to mention many of the legendaries aren't even as good as certain basic/common cards anyways. Draft luck would be too heavily skewed for the players that do manage to draft a good legendary.
I originally was fine with extra picks to form your deck but upon thinking about it more the arena should stay as far away from constructed as possible. It's the skill of picking cards based on their value and not of hopes of getting something to create synergy. As far as arena being free absolutely not, in fact I agree with others that arena awards should be tuned down a bit. Also I think if they had a draft mode then it should be a true draft mode that actually costs more than arena and definitely not free.