I can share my story. First,I'm entirely F2P with the exception of the $5 starter pack which was too good of a deal. I started Hearthstone back in Beta when a friend said "whatever you do, don't buy packs, get them from arena". Back when you had no collection and little gold (and back when everyone was new to arena), that made sense. I took it to heart. I started out averaging 3-4 wins. Since I was only playing arena, I didn't care about my collection or ladder, so I just played arena.
Eventually I got up into the 5 wins average by Naxx timeframe, watching Trump's arena videos back in the day really helped in that regard. I never bought packs, and since I have limited time to play Hearthstone (played 3 or 4 arena runs a week, they take a few hours each when you get 7+ wins), I started accumulating gold. Lots of gold, in fact. Again, I never spent gold on packs (I did spend it on expansions), but even doing this was able to accumulate 20K gold pretty easily by WotOG.
I hit my peak arena playing between TGT and WofOG, averaging 6.2 wins per run. Without buying packs, I still manage to get 75% of a set (usually half the epics and a quarter of the legendaries). Then arena switched to standard and bumped up rarities of cards, and I quickly stopped playing arena. It was less about skill and more about how lucky you were during the draft. I think arena is better now than WotOG/MSG arena meta, but I got into constructed and haven't really gone back to arena. I also just don't have the time to sit down for a 2 hour arena run anymore. I now buy packs with gold, and basically try to stay around the 20K gold mark (don't know why, I just want to keep it near 20K).
So, in the end, if you're good at arena, you can do just fine in this game. I sit at 20K gold, 40K dust, 84% of the cards in all of Hearthstone, most of the tier 1 legendaries (I will say I have been lucky in pulling the top legendaries from my packs the last two expansions), and I only spent $5 on the game. Mainly thanks to arena. Unfortunately, I don't think you can be as effective in arena as before since they changed it to increase rarities and spells. Oh well.
Btw like the nubs saying git gud in a total rng game lelelelel
If it's a "total RNG game," how come the same names appear on the Arena leaderboards month after month? It's almost like your argument has no logical basis whatsoever...
probably less than 100 people in the world avg 7-8 wins..
But you don't need to. If you include higher wins (that can give up to 400-500g) and dailies, along with a certain gold backup, you will never not have enough gold to get an arena run in. The "average" to sustain endless arena is much lower than most people realize, in particular, if you have a high variance. E.g. A 0 win run costs you 150g maximum, but a 12 run gives you +200-300 net gold.
So the trick is really just "to play", if you have "mastered" the basics. HS is a very simple game in the grand scheme of things and "playing well" is far less important than "not doing mistakes". The former has a vastly lower skill ceiling than the latter.
Also this. Particularly agree re high variance, two 10+ runs (if you roll high on the gold rewards) will give you enough for another four or five runs.
One 10wins reward will not solely finance 4-5 arena runs ... u mean the extra gold will balance the deficit from the next 4-5 bad ones so u can continuously play, right?:P
I said two 10+ wins... Not sure why I went with that rather than one but anyway, it's accurate! You can get anywhere from 150-400 gold for 10 wins so if you get two 10-win runs and are (very) lucky you can get up to 800 gold. Of course, that never happens but it's possible! Just an example.
Oh, i missed the "two" part, sorry :P I mean yeah, two 10-12 wins could finance 4 arena runs alone, that is true ;-)
5 wins isn't infinite / soft infinite IMO - the gold range is 45 to 120 gold for 5 wins, if you roll 45 gold, you're not getting another 105 gold easily on a daily basis. 60 gold quest + 15 wins in ranked ? Okay...
6 wins is more likely to be a soft infinite since gold range is 75 to 145 gold which makes it very probably to hit a quest + small handful of wins to hit your next arena ticket.
This is assuming you play 1 arena run PER day. If you don't but you keep up with quests then you'll be stacking gold at a much lower then 6 avg. Also as mentioned above, the variance between the ranges can make lower win totals more profitable then higher win totals, but generally if you want a hard # to hit to never worry about your next ticket, it'll be 7 wins. You can sustain your 150g upcoming arena without extra effort like quests or 3 win streaks.
Infinite is not "easy" over large sample sizes because if it was easy everyone would hit it and be raking in their gold legendaries from Arena. You can view the leaderboards for a snapshot into what volume and averages people can achieve and see whether that is obtainable for you. Although the leaderboard stats is a bit skewed since it pulls the "best" sample size for the month, my point is obtaining a handful of runs a month hitting 6-7 a run and calling it infinite doesn't have the same confidence level as someone with 100 runs at the same win rate.
5 wins isn't infinite / soft infinite IMO - the gold range is 45 to 120 gold for 5 wins, if you roll 45 gold, you're not getting another 105 gold easily on a daily basis. 60 gold quest + 15 wins in ranked ? Okay...
6 wins is more likely to be a soft infinite since gold range is 75 to 145 gold which makes it very probably to hit a quest + small handful of wins to hit your next arena ticket.
This is assuming you play 1 arena run PER day. If you don't but you keep up with quests then you'll be stacking gold at a much lower then 6 avg. Also as mentioned above, the variance between the ranges can make lower win totals more profitable then higher win totals, but generally if you want a hard # to hit to never worry about your next ticket, it'll be 7 wins. You can sustain your 150g upcoming arena without extra effort like quests or 3 win streaks.
Infinite is not "easy" over large sample sizes because if it was easy everyone would hit it and be raking in their gold legendaries from Arena. You can view the leaderboards for a snapshot into what volume and averages people can achieve and see whether that is obtainable for you. Although the leaderboard stats is a bit skewed since it pulls the "best" sample size for the month, my point is obtaining a handful of runs a month hitting 6-7 a run and calling it infinite doesn't have the same confidence level as someone with 100 runs at the same win rate.
I guess there should be said, that its easy to sustain yourself on a lower average winrate in arena and be able to play whenever u want, so technically being infinite, if u have some bank accumulated ... so when u hit low streaks u have gold to spend on entries and in long run high streaks will balance it out and even grow your bank. I think thats what most ppl ment by being soft-infinite (or long term infinite). At least thats how i see it anyway ;-)
5 wins isn't infinite / soft infinite IMO - the gold range is 45 to 120 gold for 5 wins, if you roll 45 gold, you're not getting another 105 gold easily on a daily basis. 60 gold quest + 15 wins in ranked ? Okay...
Be careful with your math. That is correct if you get 5 wins on arena every time. However, if you go 10 wins and then 0 wins, your average is still 5 wins but you gain a lot more gold. Using the average gold per win level:
2 x 5 wins = 2 x 80 = 160 gold
0 win + 10 wins = 15 + 260 gold = 275 gold
I'm not saying 5 wins is soft infinite, but it's closer than your math suggests. The fact that arena rewards are not linear is why you can actually make a profit off of arena even if you have less than a 3 win average.
Well I did say that to go 'soft-infinite' at 5 wins you can only play one Arena run every day or two. And I don't think anyone has said averaging 7+ wins is easy. It is, however, possible and achievable to be close to that with practice.
To put it another way, I don't average 7+ wins overall but when KFT came out I spent money on packs down to 500 gold. I average slightly over an arena run every two days and play almost no ladder. Without paying any real money, I now have almost 3,000 gold so go figure.
Was in response to someone who said 7 wins was easy earlier in the thread.
You average ~50 gold quest per day over a month that's 1500 gold, pay 2250 gold a month in arena (15runs x 150), and a respectable average of 5 wins per run (average gold between 45-120 = 82.5 gold per run), you're already up over 500 gold in the month while banking 15 packs + miscellaneous awards. And "infinite" with a run every 2 days. Unsustainable at 1 run per day without extra work in ranked.
As for your +2500 gold surplus. Factoring in 1500 month off quests means you made an extra 1000 gold off of 15 arena runs which is an average of 250 gold per arena - which is in the 10+ win rate category over 15 runs. Of course I didn't factor in other quests like 80/100g quests or variance in gold range. but even @ 200 gold per arena (which is way over 7 wins) run seems very high. So the #s seem off based on what I'm scribbling.
5 wins isn't infinite / soft infinite IMO - the gold range is 45 to 120 gold for 5 wins, if you roll 45 gold, you're not getting another 105 gold easily on a daily basis. 60 gold quest + 15 wins in ranked ? Okay...
Be careful with your math. That is correct if you get 5 wins on arena every time. However, if you go 10 wins and then 0 wins, your average is still 5 wins but you gain a lot more gold. Using the average gold per win level:
2 x 5 wins = 2 x 80 = 160 gold
0 win + 10 wins = 15 + 260 gold = 275 gold
I'm not saying 5 wins is soft infinite, but it's closer than your math suggests. The fact that arena rewards are not linear is why you can actually make a profit off of arena even if you have less than a 3 win average.
Correct - I thought I covered my butt with the "range" comment in my reply. :S
No, it's literally just practice. The more you play arena, the better you get. With 7-8 wins per run, going infinite or near-infinite in arena is not too difficult. Getting to that point, however, takes some persistent effort and patience.
probably less than 100 people in the world avg 7-8 wins..
Statistically, 8.98% of all runs go 7+ wins.
Even if only 1 million people play arena regularly, that's still nearly 90k runs. Pretty sure 100 people aren't doing all those runs themselves.
Not that I don't believe your gold count - it's just the other records are foggy so might not give full representation. But anyways, definitely possible you hit a good streak of gold boxes and your runs are much better then what are saying. Not a big deal either way.
No, it's literally just practice. The more you play arena, the better you get. With 7-8 wins per run, going infinite or near-infinite in arena is not too difficult. Getting to that point, however, takes some persistent effort and patience.
probably less than 100 people in the world avg 7-8 wins..
Statistically, 8.98% of all runs go 7+ wins.
Even if only 1 million people play arena regularly, that's still nearly 90k runs. Pretty sure 100 people aren't doing all those runs themselves.
That's not the correct math. That's in one run, but not an average over 100 runs (to pick a random number)
You have a 6.25% chance of flipping a coin heads 4 times in a row. That doesn't mean if we play this game 100 times, that 6.25% of the people will flip a coin heads 4 times in a row 50 or more times.
Regardless, Blizzard posted the arena stats. Up until July, every month it's about 100 players average 7+ wins. July and after, it's jacked up to 8+ wins in the top 100. Did something change in arena in July?
Real question is how does one play that much arena? I'm really good at arena... well Hearthstone in generally but Arena is so fucking boring, I usually retire just because I dont even want to play my ticket out.
Real question is how does one play that much arena? I'm really good at arena... well Hearthstone in generally but Arena is so fucking boring, I usually retire just because I dont even want to play my ticket out.
To each his own ... i dont enjoy constructed for example, cause its boring AF for me, playin the same decks over and over ... so fulfilling mmmm :P
Real question is how does one play that much arena? I'm really good at arena... well Hearthstone in generally but Arena is so fucking boring, I usually retire just because I dont even want to play my ticket out.
Decks you draft are never the same, same goes for the decks you face. So an ever changing match up makes it fun for me.
Grinding ranked games where there is a handful of popular deck choices squaring off against each other every game feels repetitive.
I've been spending my gold on packs to get cards. Is this dumb and should I only play Arena with my gold for better reward long-term???
Nope. Arena is a pretty poor system to gain cards, as it takes around 3-4 wins to break even and 7+ wins to get ahead. If you're a highly skilled Hearthstone player who is very knowledgable about the game and knows a lot about Arena, it can be more beneficial, but the truth is the amount of players who average 7+ wins is a very, very small amount. Even averaging 5 wins can be very difficult, which is kinda what I consider the breakpoint of it being "profitable." The truth about Arena is that if you enjoy the game mode then you should definitely practice it and play it, but if you don't enjoy it there's pretty much no reason to force yourself to play. Hearthstone's limited format is one of the least rewarding in terms of card games, and you're likely better off spending time grinding on ladder than playing Arena.
Yes, this. If you listen to people here on these forums they'd have you believe that EVERYONE goes infinite and heck, they do it all the time its so easy to them they are just literally like Hearthstone gods that just close their eyes and see combinations and plays play out in their mind. But the reality is that according to statistics the vast majority of players average something like 2 or 3 wins in arena. And the prizes are trash for that level and not "worth it" investment wise.
That's not really true, I linked the proposed prize table on the hearthstone wiki on this thread previously, at 3 wins (the average) the prizes are enough that it's still probably slightly worth it over buying packs.
I've been spending my gold on packs to get cards. Is this dumb and should I only play Arena with my gold for better reward long-term???
Nope. Arena is a pretty poor system to gain cards, as it takes around 3-4 wins to break even and 7+ wins to get ahead. If you're a highly skilled Hearthstone player who is very knowledgable about the game and knows a lot about Arena, it can be more beneficial, but the truth is the amount of players who average 7+ wins is a very, very small amount. Even averaging 5 wins can be very difficult, which is kinda what I consider the breakpoint of it being "profitable." The truth about Arena is that if you enjoy the game mode then you should definitely practice it and play it, but if you don't enjoy it there's pretty much no reason to force yourself to play. Hearthstone's limited format is one of the least rewarding in terms of card games, and you're likely better off spending time grinding on ladder than playing Arena.
Yes, this. If you listen to people here on these forums they'd have you believe that EVERYONE goes infinite and heck, they do it all the time its so easy to them they are just literally like Hearthstone gods that just close their eyes and see combinations and plays play out in their mind. But the reality is that according to statistics the vast majority of players average something like 2 or 3 wins in arena. And the prizes are trash for that level and not "worth it" investment wise.
Well, sorry to burst your bubble, but the fact is, that if u get 3-4 wins u get 100% of your entry fee back. Sure, 100g will be in form of a card pack, but u will get your entire 150g worth of gold back at the very least. So saying "its not worth it" is inaccurate. U can check out the rewards here (Arena Rewards Megathread!) for example.
I will however agree with u, that if u dont enjoy playing arena, forcing yourself to play it to just have a little bit more rewards is not worth it. U shouldnt play a game (mode) u dont enjoy, whats the point in that? If u absolutely hate arena, then even if u would be a good arena player, id say its not worth it for u, since u will get no enjoyment from it ... but if u like arena and dont go 0-3 most of your runs, then it definitely is profitable, or at the very least not unprofitable ;-)
I can share my story. First,I'm entirely F2P with the exception of the $5 starter pack which was too good of a deal. I started Hearthstone back in Beta when a friend said "whatever you do, don't buy packs, get them from arena". Back when you had no collection and little gold (and back when everyone was new to arena), that made sense. I took it to heart. I started out averaging 3-4 wins. Since I was only playing arena, I didn't care about my collection or ladder, so I just played arena.
Eventually I got up into the 5 wins average by Naxx timeframe, watching Trump's arena videos back in the day really helped in that regard. I never bought packs, and since I have limited time to play Hearthstone (played 3 or 4 arena runs a week, they take a few hours each when you get 7+ wins), I started accumulating gold. Lots of gold, in fact. Again, I never spent gold on packs (I did spend it on expansions), but even doing this was able to accumulate 20K gold pretty easily by WotOG.
I hit my peak arena playing between TGT and WofOG, averaging 6.2 wins per run. Without buying packs, I still manage to get 75% of a set (usually half the epics and a quarter of the legendaries). Then arena switched to standard and bumped up rarities of cards, and I quickly stopped playing arena. It was less about skill and more about how lucky you were during the draft. I think arena is better now than WotOG/MSG arena meta, but I got into constructed and haven't really gone back to arena. I also just don't have the time to sit down for a 2 hour arena run anymore. I now buy packs with gold, and basically try to stay around the 20K gold mark (don't know why, I just want to keep it near 20K).
So, in the end, if you're good at arena, you can do just fine in this game. I sit at 20K gold, 40K dust, 84% of the cards in all of Hearthstone, most of the tier 1 legendaries (I will say I have been lucky in pulling the top legendaries from my packs the last two expansions), and I only spent $5 on the game. Mainly thanks to arena. Unfortunately, I don't think you can be as effective in arena as before since they changed it to increase rarities and spells. Oh well.
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5 wins isn't infinite / soft infinite IMO - the gold range is 45 to 120 gold for 5 wins, if you roll 45 gold, you're not getting another 105 gold easily on a daily basis. 60 gold quest + 15 wins in ranked ? Okay...
6 wins is more likely to be a soft infinite since gold range is 75 to 145 gold which makes it very probably to hit a quest + small handful of wins to hit your next arena ticket.
This is assuming you play 1 arena run PER day. If you don't but you keep up with quests then you'll be stacking gold at a much lower then 6 avg. Also as mentioned above, the variance between the ranges can make lower win totals more profitable then higher win totals, but generally if you want a hard # to hit to never worry about your next ticket, it'll be 7 wins. You can sustain your 150g upcoming arena without extra effort like quests or 3 win streaks.
Infinite is not "easy" over large sample sizes because if it was easy everyone would hit it and be raking in their gold legendaries from Arena. You can view the leaderboards for a snapshot into what volume and averages people can achieve and see whether that is obtainable for you. Although the leaderboard stats is a bit skewed since it pulls the "best" sample size for the month, my point is obtaining a handful of runs a month hitting 6-7 a run and calling it infinite doesn't have the same confidence level as someone with 100 runs at the same win rate.
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#1 Arena Leader Board Player in North America - August 2018 and April 2020
#2 NA Nov 18, #2 Asia July 19, #2 NA Feb 20, #2 NA June 20
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Twitch Arena Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/boozor / Youtube Chanel: https://www.youtube.com/c/boozortv
#1 Arena Leader Board Player in North America - August 2018 and April 2020
#2 NA Nov 18, #2 Asia July 19, #2 NA Feb 20, #2 NA June 20
Twitch Arena Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/boozor / Youtube Chanel: https://www.youtube.com/c/boozortv
#1 Arena Leader Board Player in North America - August 2018 and April 2020
#2 NA Nov 18, #2 Asia July 19, #2 NA Feb 20, #2 NA June 20
"Nerf Paper," said Rock.
Not that I don't believe your gold count - it's just the other records are foggy so might not give full representation. But anyways, definitely possible you hit a good streak of gold boxes and your runs are much better then what are saying. Not a big deal either way.
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#1 Arena Leader Board Player in North America - August 2018 and April 2020
#2 NA Nov 18, #2 Asia July 19, #2 NA Feb 20, #2 NA June 20
Real question is how does one play that much arena? I'm really good at arena... well Hearthstone in generally but Arena is so fucking boring, I usually retire just because I dont even want to play my ticket out.
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#1 Arena Leader Board Player in North America - August 2018 and April 2020
#2 NA Nov 18, #2 Asia July 19, #2 NA Feb 20, #2 NA June 20
That's not really true, I linked the proposed prize table on the hearthstone wiki on this thread previously, at 3 wins (the average) the prizes are enough that it's still probably slightly worth it over buying packs.
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