For me personally, OTK decks are not my cup of tea. I enjoy some good back and forth and if I get beat, I can respect being outplayed (some will say OTK is a form of being outplayed and they're not wrong, but that's for another discussion.
For an intelligent discussion for those who wish to add to this, and instead of ranting about hating Malygos (one of the last cogs left standing in the ol' OTK game currently), I wonder what a standard would look like without him. I was thrilled back when Elysiana first came out and control decks could extend the game...for a week or so, and then 45 minute games definitely started to suck, so without OTK, I imagine that control could potentially spiral out of control, but to be honest, I find aggro strong enough without the OTK element. I lose plenty of games against aggro despite plenty of control mechanics and there's a nice variety out there right now imo, but I'd be interested to hear from some of the wiser folks where OTK fits into the hearthstone ecosystem (since healthy parity) is nice up to a point.
I don’t feel like there has really been any overly oppressive otk decks aside from when Druid was at its peak during Ice Crown days. But the main problem there was less otk, and moreso that they had ridiculously overpowered cards that allowed them to survive to their combo against matchups (aggro) that should counter them.
Spreading plague, ultimate infestation, malfurion DK hero, you get the point. The issue was that there was hardly anything any deck could do to stop it. Even Control warrior couldn’t out armor it once the strategy switched to togwaggle or mech c’thun Druid.
I feel like I am fine with otk, but it needs to be counter-able. I am also, in general, fine with malygos. HOWEVER that being said, I would be curious to know what cards were never printed because of his existence. Cards like him, shadowstep, stonetusk boar definitely hold some card designs back.
Cards like him, shadowstep, stonetusk boar definitely hold some card designs back.
I think you should then also look at the cards and strategies that only see use because he's around. He's a deck enabler, for good and for bad. If anything Hearthstone could use more cards like that and more different strategies.
Cause the one way to fight cards ALWAYS being used in certain circumstances is to remove them and put them in Wild. The other is to just print more damn cards that challenge it's hold on the niche.
I'm more in favour of the latter, and I hope that Blizz's rumored full rework of the classic and basic sets will make them take that as one of the considerations.
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I actually like Malygos, I think most of the decks featuring him require some skill to pilot, as you often need to discard some pieces of the combo during the game, I think that most of the frustration when facing Malygos Druid comes from other druid tools.
I know it may be frustrating for some control decks, but I don't think they are THAT oppressive to control, as Control Warrior is usually great against Malygos (massive armor) and we've had some counters such as Dirty Rat or the priest legendary that steals your hand.
"What could you hope to accomplish? To storm brazenly into my domain... to employ magic... against ME?"
More than anything else, Malygos is just kinda boring.
I guess Warlock kinda has a Maly deck these days, and that's a bit different, but probably most Maly decks for years have been Druid Maly, and those have kinda looked the same in the end for ages. Sure, the ramp and the draw and the stall differs slightly, but the main feel of the deck is just dull. Change is good.
I want new ****. Not the same old ****. I'm also not really an OTK fan, but at least expansion OTK cards rotate. Old boring classic set stuff, even if it's not necessarily broken, is still old and boring and should be replaced.
The problem that I have with OP is that they're assuming all combo decks run Malygos. Not sure what the point of this thread because OP sounds like a confused rant. Honestly it's difficult for me to have an intelligent conversation with someone who dosen't understand the archetype they are wishing to discuss and when they don't get the current meta.
The problem that I have with OP is that they're assuming all combo decks run Malygos. Not sure what the point of this thread because OP sounds like a confused rant. Honestly it's difficult for me to have an intelligent conversation with someone who dosen't understand the archetype they are wishing to discuss and when they don't get the current meta.
I feel like this is an attack on the OP, and I don’t see anywhere where he is assuming that all combo decks run maly. He’s focusing on maly, because maly is definitely a recurring thing, but he did not infer that if a deck is combo, it must be a maly deck.
It also, in no way, shape, or form, sounds like a rant. Rants are hugely emotion driven, backed by opinion and frustration. He may have an opinion, but he is not conveying his point in a manner that I would describe as rant-ey.
This kind of response adds nothing, and why you took the time to even make it is odd. I mean, you clearly had nothing to add, so why not just move on?
Cards like him, shadowstep, stonetusk boar definitely hold some card designs back.
I think you should then also look at the cards and strategies that only see use because he's around. He's a deck enabler, for good and for bad. If anything Hearthstone could use more cards like that and more different strategies.
Cause the one way to fight cards ALWAYS being used in certain circumstances is to remove them and put them in Wild. The other is to just print more damn cards that challenge it's hold on the niche.
I'm more in favour of the latter, and I hope that Blizz's rumored full rework of the classic and basic sets will make them take that as one of the considerations.
I agree, and definitely feel strongest about shadowstep in this regard. My biggest issue with shadow step being it is a card that only one class can access, while preventing cards that all classes can access from being printed (neutral battlecries).
In my opinion, when ALL neutral battlecries must be designed with shadowstep in mind, it becomes a problem. Sort of in tune with shudderwok with the caveat being that wok rotated while shadowstep is permanent without blizz intervention.
I'm of the mind (as stated) that a balanced ecosystem is a good thing. Just curious what people thought about Maly I suppose. I lose plenty to combo decks without Maly as well, but I faced a couple decks with him today for the first time in awhile and felt like talking about him.
I like the points a couple people made about him being an enabler and also limiting card creation, all good points.
don't feel like you have to respond to every thread you don't want to respond to. Or you could ask a question if you think the poster is off base or confused.
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For me personally, OTK decks are not my cup of tea. I enjoy some good back and forth and if I get beat, I can respect being outplayed (some will say OTK is a form of being outplayed and they're not wrong, but that's for another discussion.
For an intelligent discussion for those who wish to add to this, and instead of ranting about hating Malygos (one of the last cogs left standing in the ol' OTK game currently), I wonder what a standard would look like without him. I was thrilled back when Elysiana first came out and control decks could extend the game...for a week or so, and then 45 minute games definitely started to suck, so without OTK, I imagine that control could potentially spiral out of control, but to be honest, I find aggro strong enough without the OTK element. I lose plenty of games against aggro despite plenty of control mechanics and there's a nice variety out there right now imo, but I'd be interested to hear from some of the wiser folks where OTK fits into the hearthstone ecosystem (since healthy parity) is nice up to a point.
I don’t feel like there has really been any overly oppressive otk decks aside from when Druid was at its peak during Ice Crown days. But the main problem there was less otk, and moreso that they had ridiculously overpowered cards that allowed them to survive to their combo against matchups (aggro) that should counter them.
Spreading plague, ultimate infestation, malfurion DK hero, you get the point. The issue was that there was hardly anything any deck could do to stop it. Even Control warrior couldn’t out armor it once the strategy switched to togwaggle or mech c’thun Druid.
I feel like I am fine with otk, but it needs to be counter-able. I am also, in general, fine with malygos. HOWEVER that being said, I would be curious to know what cards were never printed because of his existence. Cards like him, shadowstep, stonetusk boar definitely hold some card designs back.
I think you should then also look at the cards and strategies that only see use because he's around. He's a deck enabler, for good and for bad. If anything Hearthstone could use more cards like that and more different strategies.
Cause the one way to fight cards ALWAYS being used in certain circumstances is to remove them and put them in Wild. The other is to just print more damn cards that challenge it's hold on the niche.
I'm more in favour of the latter, and I hope that Blizz's rumored full rework of the classic and basic sets will make them take that as one of the considerations.
If you see a bad post on the forum use the report function under it, so I or someone else of the moderation team can take care of it!
I actually like Malygos, I think most of the decks featuring him require some skill to pilot, as you often need to discard some pieces of the combo during the game, I think that most of the frustration when facing Malygos Druid comes from other druid tools.
I know it may be frustrating for some control decks, but I don't think they are THAT oppressive to control, as Control Warrior is usually great against Malygos (massive armor) and we've had some counters such as Dirty Rat or the priest legendary that steals your hand.
"What could you hope to accomplish? To storm brazenly into my domain... to employ magic... against ME?"
More than anything else, Malygos is just kinda boring.
I guess Warlock kinda has a Maly deck these days, and that's a bit different, but probably most Maly decks for years have been Druid Maly, and those have kinda looked the same in the end for ages. Sure, the ramp and the draw and the stall differs slightly, but the main feel of the deck is just dull. Change is good.
I want new ****. Not the same old ****. I'm also not really an OTK fan, but at least expansion OTK cards rotate. Old boring classic set stuff, even if it's not necessarily broken, is still old and boring and should be replaced.
The problem that I have with OP is that they're assuming all combo decks run Malygos. Not sure what the point of this thread because OP sounds like a confused rant. Honestly it's difficult for me to have an intelligent conversation with someone who dosen't understand the archetype they are wishing to discuss and when they don't get the current meta.
I feel like this is an attack on the OP, and I don’t see anywhere where he is assuming that all combo decks run maly. He’s focusing on maly, because maly is definitely a recurring thing, but he did not infer that if a deck is combo, it must be a maly deck.
It also, in no way, shape, or form, sounds like a rant. Rants are hugely emotion driven, backed by opinion and frustration. He may have an opinion, but he is not conveying his point in a manner that I would describe as rant-ey.
This kind of response adds nothing, and why you took the time to even make it is odd. I mean, you clearly had nothing to add, so why not just move on?
I agree, and definitely feel strongest about shadowstep in this regard. My biggest issue with shadow step being it is a card that only one class can access, while preventing cards that all classes can access from being printed (neutral battlecries).
In my opinion, when ALL neutral battlecries must be designed with shadowstep in mind, it becomes a problem. Sort of in tune with shudderwok with the caveat being that wok rotated while shadowstep is permanent without blizz intervention.
nm
appreciate that.
I'm of the mind (as stated) that a balanced ecosystem is a good thing. Just curious what people thought about Maly I suppose. I lose plenty to combo decks without Maly as well, but I faced a couple decks with him today for the first time in awhile and felt like talking about him.
I like the points a couple people made about him being an enabler and also limiting card creation, all good points.
don't feel like you have to respond to every thread you don't want to respond to. Or you could ask a question if you think the poster is off base or confused.