Hey folks, thanks for the feedback on my Druid Expansion thread so far! I decided to go bigger this time, and came up with a 23 card Death Knight set, featuring Koltira Deathweaver as the hero!
Death Knight Expansion Set
Hero: Koltira Deathweaver
I chose Koltira for a few reasons. First, I decided that the DK hero should be a Horde race in order to balance the H/A Hero ratio at 1:1. On top of this, the Koltira/Tharassian storyline was a very interesting one, so I immediately favored one of those two to become the DK Hero.
Death strike is a less versatile hybrid of other Hero powers (most obviously Mage and Priest). The 1 damage to minion and 1 health to hero is meant to mimic the ability, and necromantic survivability of a Death Knight in World of Warcraft. While a pseudo-mix of 2 existing hero powers may seem OP at first glance, the lack of versatility makes up for the 1 dmg/1 health.
Minions
The idea here was to build synergy via a new sub-type in a similar fashion to my "Owlkin" addition to the Druid class, and "Undead" seemed the natural way to go. This was a very interesting project, as I wasn't adding minions to an existing set this time, but starting from scratch. As most of you know, I'm still quite new to card creation, so hopefully balance has improved this time, but let me know if any issues stand out to you, it helps me improve these "expansions".
Tokens
Spells
I decided that the spells should emulate the basic ideas class in WoW, which to me is summoning undead, locking down casters, and spreading AoE damage. I also felt like secrets naturally fit very well with the deck, and thus DK became a class with 3 secrets as well!
Weapons
Runeblades have been an integral part of DK lore for as long as I can remember. With the most well know of these being Frostmourne, I felt it would be fitting to have The Lich King equip the hero with one, which even emulates the soul-stealing nature of the actual sword. This also draws parallels to his counterpart, Tirion Fordring.
Thanks for checking out my cards! I'm sure something similar has been done before, but I just love taking on larger projects like this. Let me know what you guys think, whether its just a short "cool cards!", some balance feedback, or "i hate ur crappy cards mega, stop making them!!!!" It's all welcome!
Bah! I did the same thing with "Chosen of Elune" and Velen's Chosen in my Druid set! Why is it always priest cards that I don't know??
I'll be fixing that this evening for sure, maybe to something like "Summon a random minion that died this turn". That was just off the top of my head, but I'm trying to stay away from copying existing cards so thank you for pointing that out!
I can see that you worked really hard on these cards and that's a job well done and some of them are pretty neat too! Although I think a good amount of them seem to be a bit too overpowered compared to cards in other classes and so I think you really should compare/contrast your cards with other class cards to balance them a bit. You also used the Priest card Shadow Word: Pain for your Defile spell.
Bah! I did the same thing with "Chosen of Elune" and Velen's Chosen in my Druid set! Why is it always priest cards that I don't know??
I'll be fixing that this evening for sure, maybe to something like "Summon a random minion that died this turn". That was just off the top of my head, but I'm trying to stay away from copying existing cards so thank you for pointing that out!
Yeah that will give you alot more ability to control wich minion you revive, If only 1 minion died for you then you will 100% know what you get. by having it work that way it is fine at 4 mana otherwise it could be too much value! (like if your KT died and you rez him you will get another at the end of your turn)
Thanks ShadowDimension, I fixed that immediately, idk how that went over my head. I really need more priests queing up in ranked! The funny thing is, I chose that because i couldn't find any other decent artwork, and today I immediately found the TCG Defile art >.> Is anything standing out with you in particular? I mostly use neutral cards and Druid cards as the basis for my comparisons, since they are the only ones I know well enough atm. I've been using the card value "point" system as well, so don't feel bad about tearing into some of the cards that you think are broken!
@The_Ianinator, haha Frostmourne OP!! As for the hero power, I was afraid that 1 dmg/1healing would just be the Druid hero power essentially, but I suppose, since it's only minions and you take no face dmg (it's a cast as opposed to swinging with the hero himself), that the healing could be reduced to 1, thanks for the input!
Death strike is similar to combining mage/priest hero power, making it a bit too OP. How about making it deal 1 random to a random enemy and restore 1 health to your hero.
I just changed Death Strike to "Deal 1 damage to a minion, and restore 1 health to your hero." This could allow you to proc your own Deathrattles, or possibly even poke your own minion when your enemy has an empty board in order to avoid lethal.
Death Strike is kinda better than every hero power so far, it's untauntable like Mage, doesn't make you take face damage AND heals you. Needs a little reworking.
The Wamts, my thought process was that the inability to go face with it made up for the 1 healing. My fear is that if it's just, "Give your hero 1 attack this turn, and restore 1 health.", then it's effectively a renamed Druid Hero Power.
This might be the simplest yet toughest part of class design in Hearthstone imo, as you can't change the mana cost from 2 on a playable Hero, and Death Knight-esque abilities are mostly taken. Pally has summon, and druid has damage+heal. This makes it tough to balance a "unique" 2 mana Hero Power without making what is effectively a copy. I figured this version of it was pretty balanced, but I'll keep thinking!
No problem man. I'll give you a few examples of the cards I think are a bit overpowered. For the others, you need to read up on ALL class cards and not just Druid class cards, because it isn't a very good idea to only compare/contrast your class cards with Druid.
Deathspeaker Zealot: It is basically a 6/6 for 3 mana because its deathrattle has charge. That is way too overpowered. That's even better than Hungry Dragon.
Enchanted Runeblade: This weapon is exactly the same as Arcanite Reaper in Warrior but BETTER because it has 3 durability.
The Lich King: This card is actually fine, just shouldn't his name be Arthas Menethil because he is the one that personifies the Lich King the most?
Strangulate: This card is better than Loatheb because you can use two of them in your deck. Maybe raise the mana cost for this card?
Army of the Dead: This card is way too strong. It's trying to copy Imp-losion in my opinion. Maybe make it 5 mana: "Summon 2-4 2/2 Zombies."
I'm sure there are other overpowered cards but you simply need to look at ALL the class cards to determine how to change them. Perhaps you can also look at Neutral cards and see how they can combo with those.
No problem man. I'll give you a few examples of the cards I think are a bit overpowered. For the others, you need to read up on ALL class cards and not just Druid class cards, because it isn't a very good idea to only compare/contrast your class cards with Druid.
Deathspeaker Zealot: It is basically a 6/6 for 3 mana because its deathrattle has charge. That is way too overpowered. That's even better than Hungry Dragon.
Enchanted Runeblade: This weapon is exactly the same as Arcanite Reaper in Warrior but BETTER because it has 3 durability.
The Lich King: This card is actually fine, just shouldn't his name be Arthas Menethil because he is the one that personifies the Lich King the most?
Strangulate: This card is better than Loatheb because you can use two of them in your deck. Maybe raise the mana cost for this card?
Army of the Dead: This card is way too strong. It's trying to copy Imp-losion in my opinion. Maybe make it 5 mana: "Summon 2-4 2/2 Zombies."
I'm sure there are other overpowered cards but you simply need to look at ALL the class cards to determine how to change them. Perhaps you can also look at Neutral cards and see how they can combo with those.
I used Sludge Belcher as a basis for Deathspeaker Zealot, which after doing some research it is absolutely over valued. I first read that Charge was worth 1 point, but now know it's 3. So sludge at 5 has 3/5 with deathrattle and taunt, and summons a 1/2 with taunt. So at 4, if we drop him to 2/4 and summon a 2/1 with charge that dies at the end of your turn, would that be a decent fix?
Strangulate was oddly enough one of the cards I felt was under valued. Loatheb is a 5/5 body that also reduces all spells by (5), so for 4 mana you're reducing spells by (3) twice if you run two, but not gaining any of the board presence Loatheb offers. I'm definitely having a tough time determining the value of cards like that, would increasing the cost to 3, or decreasing the mana increase to (2) balance that in your eyes?
I actually really like your Army of the Dead idea, and will probably steal it lol. Force of Nature was a main comparison here, and I personally felt this was weaker than that, hence my choice to make it four 2/2s. It should've been at least 5 mana though, idk why I made it 4. Or, maybe I could make it something like "Summon a 2/2 Zombie for every minion that died this/last turn"? Just spitballing here.
Enhanced Runeblade was tough too, I used Arcanite and Truesilver Champion as the main references, and noticed a discrepancy in power imo. 1 less mana and 1 less damage, with the addition of a heal made me think that a 5/3 fit in between nicely, but I could be wrong.
Thanks a ton for writing that up though, I really appreciate it and I can't wait to hear some more and get back to work on the set! Just know I'm not writing this to outright defend my choices and shrug off your suggestions, I just wanted to open up a dialogue and explain my thought process.
P.S. As for Arthas, the deciding factor for me was my interpretation of the lore. I think that Arthas the Death Knight and the Lich King are two separate entities. Yes, Arthas dominated Ner'zhul during his meditation, but I believe that the Lich King's combined powers are significantly greater than Arthas' before gaining the Helm of Domination. That said, Arthas did have Frostmourne as a Death Knight as well, so the argument can be made either way honestly.
I think the fix for Deathspeaker Zealot sounds good. That way it will be similar to Imp Gang Boss but just as strong.
Making army of the dead "For every minion that died last turn" would make it even MORE overpowered. I think you should just use my idea or a similar idea to mine. Yes, you can steal/use it haha.
I think a fix for Enhanced Runeblade would be to make it a 4/3.
And... what about the Lich King card name lol?
But yeah, just be careful that cards are not too similar to other class cards. Maybe make sure that before releasing a card you check if the image or card effect was used in another already existing card.
Also I hate to break it to you, but your "Mug'thol" competition card is unfortunately a Dunemaul Shaman that already exists :P.
I also found more cards of yours that have errors:
The Two Powerful Frostbrood Dragons: Those images look way too similar in my opinion. Maybe change one of them?
Whenever you point these things out, I can immediately find new art that was impossible to find through hours of searching before lol. Ogre art was impossible to find, I thought I was safe with that one, but now I immediately found another blue tatoo'd single headed ogre, thank you and your powers.
And yeah, Raise Dead has been pointed out, that's getting completely reworked. Maybe even into a Hero Power? Then Death Strike could become a spell and easier to balance.
Perhaps you can get some ideas there and compare them to your cards. I hope that helps.
And lastly, there's no need to explain to me why you didn't name The Lich King Arthas over some World of Warcraft lore. Unfortunately, I only played World of Warcraft when I was really young. I was far too young to play it and thus I got bored of it quickly. I only ever reached the 40s level-wise with a Warlock and that's it hehe. Thus, I wouldn't know about all this World of Warcraft lore that you were talking about. I only played World of Warcraft when it first released.
I'm not really into this Death Strike hero power. Notice that no existing hero power requires the presence of minions, whether friendly or enemy, in order to be useful and usable. This is not a coincidence but rather an intentional design decision.
Edit: What if you reverse it? "Deal 1 damage to the enemy hero, restore 1 Health." The latter half is targetable, of course, a pretty easy hybrid of the Hunter and Priest powers. Not a super great hero power in terms of power, but they can't all be top tier, and that's okay. Plus, you can make up for that with class card synnergy and such if you want.
I appreciate the criticsm, but I vehemently disagree with your closing sentiment. If you follow that logic, you will never be good at anything. Failure is key to success, and you're asking people not to fail...on their early tries...casually making cards...on a forum for fan card creating. wut?
meh i think if they were going to add death knights in, they'd just supplement cards for them into each expansion and solo adventure.
it'd be good business and would allow the death knight to have cards with similar mechanics to other cards in each actual set/adventure cause as a business, people would go back to get cards from those sets.
otherwise i just don't think we need more classes even though dk and monk would be -neat- inevitably it would have to take away from strengths other classes have.
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the only way you can ever say someone is netdecking... is if you've seen those decks yourself... on the net. which means you had to have been looking...
Thats why I decided to do DK now xoJinGaox, it feels weird making random cards and with nothing to start from, I feel like there's a lot more freedom for card creation since you won't have to worry about cards competing with existing cards of the class for a niche.
I also figured it would just let me make a lot of cards so I could get feedback and see where I'm having glaring issues balancing as I created my very first card 3 days ago. I'm not trying to push these cards into the game, or get a job at Blizzard or something like that. I just enjoy designing cards and would like to get better at it!
Hey folks, thanks for the feedback on my Druid Expansion thread so far! I decided to go bigger this time, and came up with a 23 card Death Knight set, featuring Koltira Deathweaver as the hero!
Death Knight Expansion Set
Hero: Koltira Deathweaver
I chose Koltira for a few reasons. First, I decided that the DK hero should be a Horde race in order to balance the H/A Hero ratio at 1:1. On top of this, the Koltira/Tharassian storyline was a very interesting one, so I immediately favored one of those two to become the DK Hero.
Death strike is a less versatile hybrid of other Hero powers (most obviously Mage and Priest). The 1 damage to minion and 1 health to hero is meant to mimic the ability, and necromantic survivability of a Death Knight in World of Warcraft. While a pseudo-mix of 2 existing hero powers may seem OP at first glance, the lack of versatility makes up for the 1 dmg/1 health.
Minions
The idea here was to build synergy via a new sub-type in a similar fashion to my "Owlkin" addition to the Druid class, and "Undead" seemed the natural way to go. This was a very interesting project, as I wasn't adding minions to an existing set this time, but starting from scratch. As most of you know, I'm still quite new to card creation, so hopefully balance has improved this time, but let me know if any issues stand out to you, it helps me improve these "expansions".
Tokens
Spells
I decided that the spells should emulate the basic ideas class in WoW, which to me is summoning undead, locking down casters, and spreading AoE damage. I also felt like secrets naturally fit very well with the deck, and thus DK became a class with 3 secrets as well!
Weapons
Runeblades have been an integral part of DK lore for as long as I can remember. With the most well know of these being Frostmourne, I felt it would be fitting to have The Lich King equip the hero with one, which even emulates the soul-stealing nature of the actual sword. This also draws parallels to his counterpart, Tirion Fordring.
Thanks for checking out my cards! I'm sure something similar has been done before, but I just love taking on larger projects like this. Let me know what you guys think, whether its just a short "cool cards!", some balance feedback, or "i hate ur crappy cards mega, stop making them!!!!" It's all welcome!
Check out my entry for the Weekly Design Competition #14: Mug'thol!
2 cards stood out for me.
Mind Freeze - Extremly awesome card! very well done with creating it! I want it!
Raise Dead - Same as resurrect wich is 2 mana. Maybe its more powerful in this class but 4 mana feels high.
Very good job with all the cards!
Bah! I did the same thing with "Chosen of Elune" and Velen's Chosen in my Druid set! Why is it always priest cards that I don't know??
I'll be fixing that this evening for sure, maybe to something like "Summon a random minion that died this turn". That was just off the top of my head, but I'm trying to stay away from copying existing cards so thank you for pointing that out!
Check out my entry for the Weekly Design Competition #14: Mug'thol!
I can see that you worked really hard on these cards and that's a job well done and some of them are pretty neat too! Although I think a good amount of them seem to be a bit too overpowered compared to cards in other classes and so I think you really should compare/contrast your cards with other class cards to balance them a bit. You also used the Priest card Shadow Word: Pain for your Defile spell.
Yeah that will give you alot more ability to control wich minion you revive, If only 1 minion died for you then you will 100% know what you get. by having it work that way it is fine at 4 mana otherwise it could be too much value! (like if your KT died and you rez him you will get another at the end of your turn)
Thanks ShadowDimension, I fixed that immediately, idk how that went over my head. I really need more priests queing up in ranked! The funny thing is, I chose that because i couldn't find any other decent artwork, and today I immediately found the TCG Defile art >.> Is anything standing out with you in particular? I mostly use neutral cards and Druid cards as the basis for my comparisons, since they are the only ones I know well enough atm. I've been using the card value "point" system as well, so don't feel bad about tearing into some of the cards that you think are broken!
@The_Ianinator, haha Frostmourne OP!! As for the hero power, I was afraid that 1 dmg/1healing would just be the Druid hero power essentially, but I suppose, since it's only minions and you take no face dmg (it's a cast as opposed to swinging with the hero himself), that the healing could be reduced to 1, thanks for the input!
Check out my entry for the Weekly Design Competition #14: Mug'thol!
Death strike is similar to combining mage/priest hero power, making it a bit too OP. How about making it deal 1 random to a random enemy and restore 1 health to your hero.
On a quest to capture every zone in Azeroth into Hearthstone cards! Elwynn Forest, Redridge Mountains, Stranglethorn Vale and Northern Barrens!
I just changed Death Strike to "Deal 1 damage to a minion, and restore 1 health to your hero." This could allow you to proc your own Deathrattles, or possibly even poke your own minion when your enemy has an empty board in order to avoid lethal.
Check out my entry for the Weekly Design Competition #14: Mug'thol!
Death Strike is kinda better than every hero power so far, it's untauntable like Mage, doesn't make you take face damage AND heals you. Needs a little reworking.
Make the Card: The biggest thread on the site!
My mandibles which are capable of pressing down and tearing, my talons which are known to intercept and hold.
The Wamts, my thought process was that the inability to go face with it made up for the 1 healing. My fear is that if it's just, "Give your hero 1 attack this turn, and restore 1 health.", then it's effectively a renamed Druid Hero Power.
This might be the simplest yet toughest part of class design in Hearthstone imo, as you can't change the mana cost from 2 on a playable Hero, and Death Knight-esque abilities are mostly taken. Pally has summon, and druid has damage+heal. This makes it tough to balance a "unique" 2 mana Hero Power without making what is effectively a copy. I figured this version of it was pretty balanced, but I'll keep thinking!
Check out my entry for the Weekly Design Competition #14: Mug'thol!
No problem man. I'll give you a few examples of the cards I think are a bit overpowered. For the others, you need to read up on ALL class cards and not just Druid class cards, because it isn't a very good idea to only compare/contrast your class cards with Druid.
Deathspeaker Zealot: It is basically a 6/6 for 3 mana because its deathrattle has charge. That is way too overpowered. That's even better than Hungry Dragon.
Enchanted Runeblade: This weapon is exactly the same as Arcanite Reaper in Warrior but BETTER because it has 3 durability.
The Lich King: This card is actually fine, just shouldn't his name be Arthas Menethil because he is the one that personifies the Lich King the most?
Strangulate: This card is better than Loatheb because you can use two of them in your deck. Maybe raise the mana cost for this card?
Army of the Dead: This card is way too strong. It's trying to copy Imp-losion in my opinion. Maybe make it 5 mana: "Summon 2-4 2/2 Zombies."
I'm sure there are other overpowered cards but you simply need to look at ALL the class cards to determine how to change them. Perhaps you can also look at Neutral cards and see how they can combo with those.
I used Sludge Belcher as a basis for Deathspeaker Zealot, which after doing some research it is absolutely over valued. I first read that Charge was worth 1 point, but now know it's 3. So sludge at 5 has 3/5 with deathrattle and taunt, and summons a 1/2 with taunt. So at 4, if we drop him to 2/4 and summon a 2/1 with charge that dies at the end of your turn, would that be a decent fix?
Strangulate was oddly enough one of the cards I felt was under valued. Loatheb is a 5/5 body that also reduces all spells by (5), so for 4 mana you're reducing spells by (3) twice if you run two, but not gaining any of the board presence Loatheb offers. I'm definitely having a tough time determining the value of cards like that, would increasing the cost to 3, or decreasing the mana increase to (2) balance that in your eyes?
I actually really like your Army of the Dead idea, and will probably steal it lol. Force of Nature was a main comparison here, and I personally felt this was weaker than that, hence my choice to make it four 2/2s. It should've been at least 5 mana though, idk why I made it 4. Or, maybe I could make it something like "Summon a 2/2 Zombie for every minion that died this/last turn"? Just spitballing here.
Enhanced Runeblade was tough too, I used Arcanite and Truesilver Champion as the main references, and noticed a discrepancy in power imo. 1 less mana and 1 less damage, with the addition of a heal made me think that a 5/3 fit in between nicely, but I could be wrong.
Thanks a ton for writing that up though, I really appreciate it and I can't wait to hear some more and get back to work on the set! Just know I'm not writing this to outright defend my choices and shrug off your suggestions, I just wanted to open up a dialogue and explain my thought process.
P.S. As for Arthas, the deciding factor for me was my interpretation of the lore. I think that Arthas the Death Knight and the Lich King are two separate entities. Yes, Arthas dominated Ner'zhul during his meditation, but I believe that the Lich King's combined powers are significantly greater than Arthas' before gaining the Helm of Domination. That said, Arthas did have Frostmourne as a Death Knight as well, so the argument can be made either way honestly.
Check out my entry for the Weekly Design Competition #14: Mug'thol!
I understand, no worries man :).
I think the fix for Deathspeaker Zealot sounds good. That way it will be similar to Imp Gang Boss but just as strong.
Making army of the dead "For every minion that died last turn" would make it even MORE overpowered. I think you should just use my idea or a similar idea to mine. Yes, you can steal/use it haha.
I think a fix for Enhanced Runeblade would be to make it a 4/3.
And... what about the Lich King card name lol?
But yeah, just be careful that cards are not too similar to other class cards. Maybe make sure that before releasing a card you check if the image or card effect was used in another already existing card.
Also I hate to break it to you, but your "Mug'thol" competition card is unfortunately a Dunemaul Shaman that already exists :P.
I also found more cards of yours that have errors:
Raise Dead: This card is identical to Resurrect.
The Two Powerful Frostbrood Dragons: Those images look way too similar in my opinion. Maybe change one of them?
Whenever you point these things out, I can immediately find new art that was impossible to find through hours of searching before lol. Ogre art was impossible to find, I thought I was safe with that one, but now I immediately found another blue tatoo'd single headed ogre, thank you and your powers.
And yeah, Raise Dead has been pointed out, that's getting completely reworked. Maybe even into a Hero Power? Then Death Strike could become a spell and easier to balance.
Check out my entry for the Weekly Design Competition #14: Mug'thol!
Anytime, man. If you're on EU add me and we can play some time :).
Also, I think you should have a look at what Amaz made with the Death Knight class concept: http://www.liquidhearth.com/forum/hearthstone/463593-amazs-death-knight-class-concept
Perhaps you can get some ideas there and compare them to your cards. I hope that helps.
And lastly, there's no need to explain to me why you didn't name The Lich King Arthas over some World of Warcraft lore. Unfortunately, I only played World of Warcraft when I was really young. I was far too young to play it and thus I got bored of it quickly. I only ever reached the 40s level-wise with a Warlock and that's it hehe. Thus, I wouldn't know about all this World of Warcraft lore that you were talking about. I only played World of Warcraft when it first released.
I'm not really into this Death Strike hero power. Notice that no existing hero power requires the presence of minions, whether friendly or enemy, in order to be useful and usable. This is not a coincidence but rather an intentional design decision.
Edit: What if you reverse it? "Deal 1 damage to the enemy hero, restore 1 Health." The latter half is targetable, of course, a pretty easy hybrid of the Hunter and Priest powers. Not a super great hero power in terms of power, but they can't all be top tier, and that's okay. Plus, you can make up for that with class card synnergy and such if you want.
I like that, simple fix and keeps the spirit of the ability. I'm getting back to work on them now, excited to put this stuff to use!
Check out my entry for the Weekly Design Competition #14: Mug'thol!
I appreciate the criticsm, but I vehemently disagree with your closing sentiment. If you follow that logic, you will never be good at anything. Failure is key to success, and you're asking people not to fail...on their early tries...casually making cards...on a forum for fan card creating. wut?
Just for that Novblast, Monk is next >:)
Check out my entry for the Weekly Design Competition #14: Mug'thol!
meh i think if they were going to add death knights in, they'd just supplement cards for them into each expansion and solo adventure.
it'd be good business and would allow the death knight to have cards with similar mechanics to other cards in each actual set/adventure cause as a business, people would go back to get cards from those sets.
otherwise i just don't think we need more classes even though dk and monk would be -neat- inevitably it would have to take away from strengths other classes have.
the only way you can ever say someone is netdecking... is if you've seen those decks yourself... on the net. which means you had to have been looking...
Thats why I decided to do DK now xoJinGaox, it feels weird making random cards and with nothing to start from, I feel like there's a lot more freedom for card creation since you won't have to worry about cards competing with existing cards of the class for a niche.
I also figured it would just let me make a lot of cards so I could get feedback and see where I'm having glaring issues balancing as I created my very first card 3 days ago. I'm not trying to push these cards into the game, or get a job at Blizzard or something like that. I just enjoy designing cards and would like to get better at it!
Check out my entry for the Weekly Design Competition #14: Mug'thol!