Sorry for formatting, as stated multiple times in the thread pmuch all my posts are from my phone and it's really laggy on this site.
@Doc - I still run belchers. Also with a lot of testing and maybe it's just me but acolyte isn't needed in CW. Also I'm only testing sen'jins, shredder will still most likely be better.
deathlord synergies with brawl as in:
If your opponent is overextended, or maybe just under where brawl is bad deathlord eats 8 damage and/or eats much needed removal brining out something random. Could be a dr boom with no battle cry, or something like zombie chow. Regardless it brings out a minion and can add value to a brawl that would have been bad otherwise. Also it helps in the mirror matchup, can kill certain decks.
You also have to play smart with it, if your against a CW with no/little removal in hand, probably not the best idea to play it then.
@Nuba I'll give it a shot!
Also hit #152 legend today, no secretdin queues and using the Sen'jin build.
Fun fact: If you hate secret paladin play giant echo Mage, free wins all day.
Ah, I see -- you play the brawl AFTER the deathlord has proc'd its deathrattle. that makes more sense.
I see the updated deck list now, with the 6 taunts. =) yeah, maybe shredder better than sen'jin, both are pretty good. or maybe sen'jin AND shredder, without deathlord. deathlord has always felt strange to me in control warrior. but what do i know.
@Doc - I still run belchers. Also with a lot of testing and maybe it's just me but acolyte isn't needed in CW.
Sorry to bother you again. Here is what I am finding, please tell me where my logic is flawed:
If I do not run acolytes, I find that there isn't enough card draw in the deck (because in that case it only has the 1 copy of shield block and nothing else at all for draw engine). To make up for this, I add 2 copies of Slam (similar to what @Nuba has done with his list). But then it doesn't make sense to have 2 slam AND 2 cruel taskmaster, as they both serve roughly similar functions and from my understanding are traditionally viewed as one or the other in the deck. So I take the cruel taskmasters out. And now I have a deck with reasonable card draw, but neither acolyte nor taskmaster, which is suddenly weak in the early game against aggro/secret paladin. (Acolyte on turn 3 can actually be very good against secret paladin -- can pop a divine shield with it and end up drawing 2 cards in most cases.)
So basically I am going around and around in circles regarding how to fill these last few slots in the deck...
@Doc - I still run belchers. Also with a lot of testing and maybe it's just me but acolyte isn't needed in CW.
Sorry to bother you again. Here is what I am finding, please tell me where my logic is flawed:
If I do not run acolytes, I find that there isn't enough card draw in the deck (because in that case it only has the 1 copy of shield block and nothing else at all for draw engine). To make up for this, I add 2 copies of Slam (similar to what @Nuba has done with his list). But then it doesn't make sense to have 2 slam AND 2 cruel taskmaster, as they both serve roughly similar functions and from my understanding are traditionally viewed as one or the other in the deck. So I take the cruel taskmasters out. And now I have a deck with reasonable card draw, but neither acolyte nor taskmaster, which is suddenly weak in the early game against aggro/secret paladin. (Acolyte on turn 3 can actually be very good against secret paladin -- can pop a divine shield with it and end up drawing 2 cards in most cases.)
So basically I am going around and around in circles regarding how to fill these last few slots in the deck...
If you are having troubles perceived to be draw related it is very likely you are using your removal too early or making plays that are not favorable/efficient to you value wise. I would try to be less reliant on draw/amount of cards you use and try being more efficient with the cards you have.
It is possible that you also may not be doing the mulligan phase correctly (a lot of people actually struggle in this phase) and they don't set themselves up for the early game properly. Even without the deathlords/senjins/accolytes/cruel tasks you can still do fine in the early game. It is all about value.
Deathlords are a very solid Meta call Mendi ( not that im suprised you being ahead of it ).
Works wonders in the Mirror, strong against Paladin, forces answers from tempo decks. Yea, overall a very good option,
How they work wonders in mirror when there is a chance of spawning something huge in turn 4?
If they remove dl that early the are wasting their very valuable removals. Also, since many minions have battle cries you can eliminate the battle cry. For example, Alex with no effect is just a giant.
Doesn't the new Mendi list ruin your matchup against Demon Handlock and/or Druid?
And can someone provide me some tips against the (demon)handlock matchup? I'ts the matchup I struggle against the most against so far.
VS druid it helps more than hurts.
Handlock/Demonlock is already insanely hard, but it can pull 4/1 twilight drakes and jarax out (Which usually instantly wins you the game if they have no jax.)
@Jel I will keep an execute in my hand if VS druid/warrior while running deathlords. Also as Mind said, I've had warriors in legend execute it and I just /fp. Against those specific matchups, you can taskmaster it for a 4/7 taunt
@Doc - I still run belchers. Also with a lot of testing and maybe it's just me but acolyte isn't needed in CW.
Sorry to bother you again. Here is what I am finding, please tell me where my logic is flawed:
If I do not run acolytes, I find that there isn't enough card draw in the deck (because in that case it only has the 1 copy of shield block and nothing else at all for draw engine). To make up for this, I add 2 copies of Slam (similar to what @Nuba has done with his list). But then it doesn't make sense to have 2 slam AND 2 cruel taskmaster, as they both serve roughly similar functions and from my understanding are traditionally viewed as one or the other in the deck. So I take the cruel taskmasters out. And now I have a deck with reasonable card draw, but neither acolyte nor taskmaster, which is suddenly weak in the early game against aggro/secret paladin. (Acolyte on turn 3 can actually be very good against secret paladin -- can pop a divine shield with it and end up drawing 2 cards in most cases.)
So basically I am going around and around in circles regarding how to fill these last few slots in the deck...
If you are having troubles perceived to be draw related it is very likely you are using your removal too early or making plays that are not favorable/efficient to you value wise. I would try to be less reliant on draw/amount of cards you use and try being more efficient with the cards you have.
It is possible that you also may not be doing the mulligan phase correctly (a lot of people actually struggle in this phase) and they don't set themselves up for the early game properly. Even without the deathlords/senjins/accolytes/cruel tasks you can still do fine in the early game. It is all about value.
Pretty much this. CW is very easy to play, but to play extremely well it has a high skillcap. It takes a while to properly learn.
@Doc - I still run belchers. Also with a lot of testing and maybe it's just me but acolyte isn't needed in CW.
Sorry to bother you again. Here is what I am finding, please tell me where my logic is flawed:
If I do not run acolytes, I find that there isn't enough card draw in the deck (because in that case it only has the 1 copy of shield block and nothing else at all for draw engine). To make up for this, I add 2 copies of Slam (similar to what @Nuba has done with his list). But then it doesn't make sense to have 2 slam AND 2 cruel taskmaster, as they both serve roughly similar functions and from my understanding are traditionally viewed as one or the other in the deck. So I take the cruel taskmasters out. And now I have a deck with reasonable card draw, but neither acolyte nor taskmaster, which is suddenly weak in the early game against aggro/secret paladin. (Acolyte on turn 3 can actually be very good against secret paladin -- can pop a divine shield with it and end up drawing 2 cards in most cases.)
So basically I am going around and around in circles regarding how to fill these last few slots in the deck...
If you are having troubles perceived to be draw related it is very likely you are using your removal too early or making plays that are not favorable/efficient to you value wise. I would try to be less reliant on draw/amount of cards you use and try being more efficient with the cards you have.
It is possible that you also may not be doing the mulligan phase correctly (a lot of people actually struggle in this phase) and they don't set themselves up for the early game properly. Even without the deathlords/senjins/accolytes/cruel tasks you can still do fine in the early game. It is all about value.
Thanks for your response, JeLLo. I hear what you are saying. I am trying to be as efficient as I can with my removal. I'm usually very conscious about what I am shield slamming or executing, essentially trying to save these cards for high priority targets (i.e. antonidas if I'm playing a tempo mage, giants if I am playing handlock etc).
Of course there are situations where you have to use some of your removal early to maintain any sort of board control. For example, let's say I am playing paladin and he drops a juggler on turn 2, and i don't have a weapon in my hand .... in that case, on my turn 2 i wouldn't hesitate to hero power + coin + shield slam in order to remove the juggler. Otherwise he's going to follow with muster and then things will snowball from there. I think having a good draw engine just gives you a broader range of options at any given point in time (I'm not saying use those options inefficiently, but at least HAVE the options in the first place).
As for the mulligan phase -- could you perhaps comment on some of the more subtle mulligan strategies for CW? Obviously I know that win axe is always good, what are some of the other key situations. For example: i keep execute for druid and priest ... i keep brawl for paladin and usually shaman. If I'm on the coin I may keep brawl for mage (especially if worried about mech) or warrior (if suspecting patron). If I suspect mirror I will keep justicar (but i don't actively look for it).
What about cards like bash and shield slam -- are they always ok to keep, or do you sometimes toss them back? Other thoughts?
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Retired Hearthstone Columnist
Sorry for formatting, as stated multiple times in the thread pmuch all my posts are from my phone and it's really laggy on this site.
@Doc - I still run belchers. Also with a lot of testing and maybe it's just me but acolyte isn't needed in CW. Also I'm only testing sen'jins, shredder will still most likely be better.
deathlord synergies with brawl as in:
If your opponent is overextended, or maybe just under where brawl is bad deathlord eats 8 damage and/or eats much needed removal brining out something random. Could be a dr boom with no battle cry, or something like zombie chow. Regardless it brings out a minion and can add value to a brawl that would have been bad otherwise. Also it helps in the mirror matchup, can kill certain decks.
You also have to play smart with it, if your against a CW with no/little removal in hand, probably not the best idea to play it then.
@Nuba I'll give it a shot!
Also hit #152 legend today, no secretdin queues and using the Sen'jin build.
Fun fact: If you hate secret paladin play giant echo Mage, free wins all day.
Ah, I see -- you play the brawl AFTER the deathlord has proc'd its deathrattle. that makes more sense.
I see the updated deck list now, with the 6 taunts. =) yeah, maybe shredder better than sen'jin, both are pretty good. or maybe sen'jin AND shredder, without deathlord. deathlord has always felt strange to me in control warrior. but what do i know.
Sorry to bother you again. Here is what I am finding, please tell me where my logic is flawed:
If I do not run acolytes, I find that there isn't enough card draw in the deck (because in that case it only has the 1 copy of shield block and nothing else at all for draw engine). To make up for this, I add 2 copies of Slam (similar to what @Nuba has done with his list). But then it doesn't make sense to have 2 slam AND 2 cruel taskmaster, as they both serve roughly similar functions and from my understanding are traditionally viewed as one or the other in the deck. So I take the cruel taskmasters out. And now I have a deck with reasonable card draw, but neither acolyte nor taskmaster, which is suddenly weak in the early game against aggro/secret paladin. (Acolyte on turn 3 can actually be very good against secret paladin -- can pop a divine shield with it and end up drawing 2 cards in most cases.)
So basically I am going around and around in circles regarding how to fill these last few slots in the deck...
If you are having troubles perceived to be draw related it is very likely you are using your removal too early or making plays that are not favorable/efficient to you value wise. I would try to be less reliant on draw/amount of cards you use and try being more efficient with the cards you have.
It is possible that you also may not be doing the mulligan phase correctly (a lot of people actually struggle in this phase) and they don't set themselves up for the early game properly. Even without the deathlords/senjins/accolytes/cruel tasks you can still do fine in the early game. It is all about value.
How they work wonders in mirror when there is a chance of spawning something huge in turn 4?
If they remove dl that early the are wasting their very valuable removals. Also, since many minions have battle cries you can eliminate the battle cry. For example, Alex with no effect is just a giant.
They'll fatigue earlier.
(not joking)
Also, you don't have to play it early. You can wait for removal.
VS druid it helps more than hurts.
Handlock/Demonlock is already insanely hard, but it can pull 4/1 twilight drakes and jarax out (Which usually instantly wins you the game if they have no jax.)
@Jel I will keep an execute in my hand if VS druid/warrior while running deathlords. Also as Mind said, I've had warriors in legend execute it and I just /fp. Against those specific matchups, you can taskmaster it for a 4/7 taunt
Pretty much this. CW is very easy to play, but to play extremely well it has a high skillcap. It takes a while to properly learn.
Thanks for your response, JeLLo. I hear what you are saying. I am trying to be as efficient as I can with my removal. I'm usually very conscious about what I am shield slamming or executing, essentially trying to save these cards for high priority targets (i.e. antonidas if I'm playing a tempo mage, giants if I am playing handlock etc).
Of course there are situations where you have to use some of your removal early to maintain any sort of board control. For example, let's say I am playing paladin and he drops a juggler on turn 2, and i don't have a weapon in my hand .... in that case, on my turn 2 i wouldn't hesitate to hero power + coin + shield slam in order to remove the juggler. Otherwise he's going to follow with muster and then things will snowball from there. I think having a good draw engine just gives you a broader range of options at any given point in time (I'm not saying use those options inefficiently, but at least HAVE the options in the first place).
As for the mulligan phase -- could you perhaps comment on some of the more subtle mulligan strategies for CW? Obviously I know that win axe is always good, what are some of the other key situations. For example: i keep execute for druid and priest ... i keep brawl for paladin and usually shaman. If I'm on the coin I may keep brawl for mage (especially if worried about mech) or warrior (if suspecting patron). If I suspect mirror I will keep justicar (but i don't actively look for it).
What about cards like bash and shield slam -- are they always ok to keep, or do you sometimes toss them back? Other thoughts?