Every time I look at this card I can't help but wonder why it exists at all. Analyzing the mana cost of 6 it makes no sense. It has half of the effect of assassinate, which costs five, double the cost of deadly shot, which is three. Both of those cards are guaranteed to remove one minion permanently. Deadly shot is cheaper and as a result you don't get to pick what is killed, but against control decks that rarely have more than two minions on the board at a time it is an extremely valuable card even though it is not meta at the moment in most decks. Assassinate is often considered too slow so why on earth does recycle even exist?
Would you rather kill literally any other card with full board on your side or let your opponent play it again; next time without an answer to it? Think about it. There is a reason that card isn't even used in the natural remedies deck. Plus there is a chance that the card could surface the next turn and you'll still be boned.
But have any of you actually tried it in a deck? Or looked at good deck lists? It performs as poor as the dalaran mage and nobody uses it. For a reason.
And why do you think Blizzard numerous times said that they won't remove a card from the game, no matter if it's op or crap? Because the idea of hearthstone is giving a set of cards without deciding its uses FOR player. We are given cards and it's our joy to figure out which of them will come in handy. Good example are Naxxaramus bosses. The deck building for each of them (for epics at least) was unique and forced a player to choose rarely used cards quite often. And if you look at hearthstone from above.. each new generation of meta is kind of an epic boss. You have to deal with it, rather than with each player individualy. And that's the beauty of such games. Someday, this or that card will be what you need the most. Like, a freezemage really hates to deal with moonwells, and if freezemages will get significant buff, this card will be waiting to stop this madness. Recycle seems to fit the theme of GvG druid cards ( tree of life, Malorne) - to stall. Druid never had a card which was able to deal with such a drop as Sylvanas or Cairne on its own. In fact, not many classes do so. And for Druid, who has most difficulties with clearing the board, it is quite an achievement. Although curently, it is not that control heavy, since his retarded combo exists, and it's just not needed to control the board that much, the minions are not that heavy. Even ramps with Lich King won't use this card, they'd rather use a slot for some anti-agro card, like starfire.
The more useless cards hs provides, the more of a challange to find use for them it is :)
But have any of you actually tried it in a deck? Or looked at good deck lists? It performs as poor as the dalaran mage and nobody uses it. For a reason.
Some people just don't care why no one uses some cards and they bring them a great value by fitting them into proper deck. Just like I read opinions of people complaining how shitty the Lorewalker Cho is but never tried him in Warlock Zoo deck, where he's doing pretty well. No card should be underestimated just because it's not good on the paper and overall.
Second thing - where are all those "nobody" and where are the "good deck lists"? I don't believe that streamers and famous players are the only source of good solutions. And the last thing you did forget is that not every card introduced now must find a good use immediately. There are lot of cards known from being poor in the past that made into some archetypes as a main star and some of them even had to be nerfed because of it. The best example is the hunter class, long time ago it was considered as a joke class, but I don't remember if any other class got through more nerfs than hunter.
Even if it's not playable in general - give it some time or give time to deckbuilders, nothing happens instantly.
But it is outclassed by nearly every other card that serves its purpose. At its current cost it will never have a reason to enter a deck.
The Druid class has ways to generate mana much faster than any other class. It's generally a control archetype because it has very few early pressure cards. Basically you stall the game with taunt, silence, some limited AoE and healing, then some decks will either hit them with the FoN combo while other decks just keep plopping down giants until they run out of answers. Either way Recycle helps. I would be using it if there wasn't so much Shaman and Warlock weenie decks at my range so I use Starfall instead.
But have any of you actually tried it in a deck? Or looked at good deck lists? It performs as poor as the dalaran mage and nobody uses it. For a reason.
Some people just don't care why no one uses some cards and they bring them a great value by fitting them into proper deck. Just like I read opinions of people complaining how shitty the Lorewalker Cho is but never tried him in Warlock Zoo deck, where he's doing pretty well. No card should be underestimated just because it's not good on the paper and overall.
Second thing - where are all those "nobody" and where are the "good deck lists"? I don't believe that streamers and famous players are the only source of good solutions. And the last thing you did forget is that not every card introduced now must find a good use immediately. There are lot of cards known from being poor in the past that made into some archetypes as a main star and some of them even had to be nerfed because of it. The best example is the hunter class, long time ago it was considered as a joke class, but I don't remember if any other class got through more nerfs than hunter.
Even if it's not playable in general - give it some time or give time to deckbuilders, nothing happens instantly.
Actually, Lorewalker Cho in Zoo is a pretty old idea that was tried in the beginning of the game a lot, but was found to be not only inconsistent, but often even detrimental since if your opponent just drops minions instead, you lose board control pretty fast because Chos stats just suck so much.
Assassinate + silence. How many times will you get to fatigue and have your opponent draw it a second time? None as long as savage roar + foN exist.
This is the problem, it's too clunky for a combo deck because of the insane cost. And a Ramp deck tends to drag out the game, meaning it's more of a sap. It's way overpriced.
Would you rather kill literally any other card with full board on your side or let your opponent play it again; next time without an answer to it? Think about it. There is a reason that card isn't even used in the natural remedies deck. Plus there is a chance that the card could surface the next turn and you'll still be boned.
The reason why it isn't used in Natural Remedies is because that deck gets to fatigue as a win condition... duh. The deck tries to strip opponents' threats, not delay them, and also you want your opponent to outdraw you. Recycle does neither of those things obviously.... it gives your opponent an extra card in their deck and they are actually guaranteed to draw it if the game goes to fatigue.
The typical midrange Druid deck, on the other hand, tries to win the game relatively quickly with combo--long before the opponent will likely draw the Recycled card and definitely long before they'll be able to replay it and get value out of it. Yes it's a gamble that they don't draw it (if they draw it quickly it's more like an overcosted Sap). Yes it's arguably overcosted compared to Assassinate. But Druids do lack hard removal and removal would arguably be more important in Druid than in other classes based on how most Druid decks work. Part of how Druid is balanced is by lacking good removal. If you gave Druid removal comparable to Execute or Deadly Shot then Druid would probably be broken beyond belief. Just think about it. Think about how midrange Druids win games (*ahem* combo), and how they lose games (*ahem* losing board control).
I don't play Recycle, but I would consider playing it as a one-of in a midrange or ramp druid deck if the meta becomes dominated by high cost deathrattle minions. I'd also play it in the future if Druids get cheaper+viable card draw options, as then it would be comparable to playing Siphon Soul in a Handlock deck.
I understand that druids lack hard removal. I use it more than any other class. But the fact of the matter is it is too slow for the combo. if you really need to switch the board around this card costs too much to be used within a few turns of the combo being played. If you miss your chance with the combo you are more or less screwed so this card doesn't help in pretty much any of the situations suggested.
Assassinate + silence. How many times will you get to fatigue and have your opponent draw it a second time? None as long as savage roar + foN exist.
This is the problem, it's too clunky for a combo deck because of the insane cost. And a Ramp deck tends to drag out the game, meaning it's more of a sap. It's way overpriced.
Ramp decks drag on the game? Haha what? Ramp decks do exactly the opposite; the whole point of ramping in the first place is to drop your big threats faster than your opponents' big threats.
The reason why Recycle isn't played in ramp right now is because it's slow on tempo (and Druids thrive on tempo) and there isn't enough card draw in Druid to justify having a 6 mana hard removal. It could be viable in the future though, or it could be viable depending on the meta.
It's useful because it's a "hard removal" in that it doesn't trigger any deathrattle and it doesn't deal damage to get rid of it. Druid needs removal like that now that there are so many decks running creatures that swipe and starfall can't handle.
Assassinate + silence. How many times will you get to fatigue and have your opponent draw it a second time? None as long as savage roar + foN exist.
This is the problem, it's too clunky for a combo deck because of the insane cost. And a Ramp deck tends to drag out the game, meaning it's more of a sap. It's way overpriced.
Ramp decks drag on the game? Haha what? Ramp decks do exactly the opposite; the whole point of ramping in the first place is to drop your big threats faster than your opponents' big threats.
The reason why Recycle isn't played in ramp right now is because it's slow on tempo (and Druids thrive on tempo) and there isn't enough card draw in Druid to justify having a 6 mana hard removal. It could be viable in the future though, or it could be viable depending on the meta.
Ramp decks do drag out the game. Ramp decks don't usually run combo and their huge creature tend to be big taunters. Ramp IS about tempo, but you're ignoring the tempo loss of not playing anything the first 3 turns. Ramp spends a big part of the match attempting to stabilize and that can take several turns. You're insane if you think Ramp does not drag out the game.
Regardless of whether or not ramp drags the game out (sometimes it does sometimes it doesn't it depends on what type of ramp you have so stop having this dumb argument) Recycle is too slow for any of them.
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Every time I look at this card I can't help but wonder why it exists at all. Analyzing the mana cost of 6 it makes no sense. It has half of the effect of assassinate, which costs five, double the cost of deadly shot, which is three. Both of those cards are guaranteed to remove one minion permanently. Deadly shot is cheaper and as a result you don't get to pick what is killed, but against control decks that rarely have more than two minions on the board at a time it is an extremely valuable card even though it is not meta at the moment in most decks. Assassinate is often considered too slow so why on earth does recycle even exist?
Would you rather kill literally any other card with full board on your side or let your opponent play it again; next time without an answer to it? Think about it. There is a reason that card isn't even used in the natural remedies deck. Plus there is a chance that the card could surface the next turn and you'll still be boned.
But have any of you actually tried it in a deck? Or looked at good deck lists? It performs as poor as the dalaran mage and nobody uses it. For a reason.
Its effect is good, what is not so good is its cost.
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I think this card should have been like 3.5 mana.
No idea why it's so overcosted.
I think the perfect cost for it is 4.
And why do you think Blizzard numerous times said that they won't remove a card from the game, no matter if it's op or crap? Because the idea of hearthstone is giving a set of cards without deciding its uses FOR player. We are given cards and it's our joy to figure out which of them will come in handy. Good example are Naxxaramus bosses. The deck building for each of them (for epics at least) was unique and forced a player to choose rarely used cards quite often. And if you look at hearthstone from above.. each new generation of meta is kind of an epic boss. You have to deal with it, rather than with each player individualy. And that's the beauty of such games. Someday, this or that card will be what you need the most. Like, a freezemage really hates to deal with moonwells, and if freezemages will get significant buff, this card will be waiting to stop this madness. Recycle seems to fit the theme of GvG druid cards ( tree of life, Malorne) - to stall. Druid never had a card which was able to deal with such a drop as Sylvanas or Cairne on its own. In fact, not many classes do so. And for Druid, who has most difficulties with clearing the board, it is quite an achievement. Although curently, it is not that control heavy, since his retarded combo exists, and it's just not needed to control the board that much, the minions are not that heavy. Even ramps with Lich King won't use this card, they'd rather use a slot for some anti-agro card, like starfire.
The more useless cards hs provides, the more of a challange to find use for them it is :)
"The light shall burn you!" - heals face.
But it is outclassed by nearly every other card that serves its purpose. At its current cost it will never have a reason to enter a deck.
You obviously didn't follow that conversation or the point he was making very well.
The Druid class has ways to generate mana much faster than any other class. It's generally a control archetype because it has very few early pressure cards. Basically you stall the game with taunt, silence, some limited AoE and healing, then some decks will either hit them with the FoN combo while other decks just keep plopping down giants until they run out of answers. Either way Recycle helps. I would be using it if there wasn't so much Shaman and Warlock weenie decks at my range so I use Starfall instead.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
Should put it into your deck instead of theirs for 6 mana.
Actually, Lorewalker Cho in Zoo is a pretty old idea that was tried in the beginning of the game a lot, but was found to be not only inconsistent, but often even detrimental since if your opponent just drops minions instead, you lose board control pretty fast because Chos stats just suck so much.
This is the problem, it's too clunky for a combo deck because of the insane cost. And a Ramp deck tends to drag out the game, meaning it's more of a sap. It's way overpriced.
The reason why it isn't used in Natural Remedies is because that deck gets to fatigue as a win condition... duh. The deck tries to strip opponents' threats, not delay them, and also you want your opponent to outdraw you. Recycle does neither of those things obviously.... it gives your opponent an extra card in their deck and they are actually guaranteed to draw it if the game goes to fatigue.
The typical midrange Druid deck, on the other hand, tries to win the game relatively quickly with combo--long before the opponent will likely draw the Recycled card and definitely long before they'll be able to replay it and get value out of it. Yes it's a gamble that they don't draw it (if they draw it quickly it's more like an overcosted Sap). Yes it's arguably overcosted compared to Assassinate. But Druids do lack hard removal and removal would arguably be more important in Druid than in other classes based on how most Druid decks work. Part of how Druid is balanced is by lacking good removal. If you gave Druid removal comparable to Execute or Deadly Shot then Druid would probably be broken beyond belief. Just think about it. Think about how midrange Druids win games (*ahem* combo), and how they lose games (*ahem* losing board control).
I don't play Recycle, but I would consider playing it as a one-of in a midrange or ramp druid deck if the meta becomes dominated by high cost deathrattle minions. I'd also play it in the future if Druids get cheaper+viable card draw options, as then it would be comparable to playing Siphon Soul in a Handlock deck.
I understand that druids lack hard removal. I use it more than any other class. But the fact of the matter is it is too slow for the combo. if you really need to switch the board around this card costs too much to be used within a few turns of the combo being played. If you miss your chance with the combo you are more or less screwed so this card doesn't help in pretty much any of the situations suggested.
Ramp decks drag on the game? Haha what? Ramp decks do exactly the opposite; the whole point of ramping in the first place is to drop your big threats faster than your opponents' big threats.
The reason why Recycle isn't played in ramp right now is because it's slow on tempo (and Druids thrive on tempo) and there isn't enough card draw in Druid to justify having a 6 mana hard removal. It could be viable in the future though, or it could be viable depending on the meta.
It's useful because it's a "hard removal" in that it doesn't trigger any deathrattle and it doesn't deal damage to get rid of it. Druid needs removal like that now that there are so many decks running creatures that swipe and starfall can't handle.
Pickles are just pickled cucumbers.
But is it useful if you can't use it because it's too slow? and is it useful if nobody can figure out how to use it?
Ramp decks do drag out the game. Ramp decks don't usually run combo and their huge creature tend to be big taunters. Ramp IS about tempo, but you're ignoring the tempo loss of not playing anything the first 3 turns. Ramp spends a big part of the match attempting to stabilize and that can take several turns. You're insane if you think Ramp does not drag out the game.
Regardless of whether or not ramp drags the game out (sometimes it does sometimes it doesn't it depends on what type of ramp you have so stop having this dumb argument) Recycle is too slow for any of them.