Rogue Card Revealed - Whirlkick Master
Mateusz 'MKRR' Krzesiński just revealed a new Saviors of Uldum Rogue card: Whirlkick Master
Saviors of Uldum Expansion Guide
Learn more and see all the cards in our dedicated expansion guide.
Mateusz 'MKRR' Krzesiński just revealed a new Saviors of Uldum Rogue card: Whirlkick Master
Learn more and see all the cards in our dedicated expansion guide.
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Rogue already has a lot of value to include
you had me at 'not great, not terrible'
Auctioneer is not a good card in Standard, every data metric proves this.
I realize how narciscistic it is to reply to your own comment, but for the people who thumbed down my comment, show me literally 1 data metric where it says Auctioneer in any deck outside Nomi priest isn't complete trash. I've been playing the damn card for years, did Maly rogue all through 2016, the card is just bad now unless you have a serious win condition AND good spells to cycle. Why people continue to think its power level has remained similar to what it used to be I can only chalk up to plain ignorance...and yeah Whirlkick is really bad.
Don't ask me why I did it. I have quite unbusy day and needed to switch on something. Also my math is not that reliable, so I might make a mistake somewhere.
So there are 13 combo cards in standard (unless we will get more)
3 of them are 2 mana,(~23%):
7 of them 3 mana,(~54%):
One is 4 mana(~8%):
One is 5 mana(~8%):
and one is 6. (~8%):
5 are good, 6 are mediocre and 2 are bad (unless you have pirates or can stand new Headcrack art. So 38% chance for good card. Of course they are good only imo and not if you losing. If you looking for board impact, you need Eviscerate, SI:7 Agent, Perdition's Blade or Kidnapper I guess. which is 30% chance.
So without shadowsteps or prep shenanigans and imagining you have use for all of them (including Raiding Party, the clunkiest one), if you play it on 10 turn with, lets say, Evis (tbh its very best case since Defias is never played and I doubt this will be in one deck with cold blood), you will have 6 mana left. So:
If you will trigger it with 3mana card (which is more likely generally), you will have only 5 mana. Chances are not so bright:
With stuff like prep or shadowstep we can pretty much add 1 card in each field, whatever.
Edit: I counted Crazed Chemist as 4-mana for some reasons. Numbers should be ok now, but chance of mistake is slightly increased
Edit2. Well. now it SHOULD be ok
Totem and Wagglepick and Van Cleef are good because Lackeys are cheap and good. This is limited to Combo cards tho. Entirely different thing.
This plus SI7 means 5 mana and 2 cards for a random Combo card. Not playable.
We need to wait until all combo cards in this expansion are revealed, so far most of combo cards are in the low side.
Miracle rogue alive??? Or auctioneer goes in HoF?
This card can actually be quite good, in terms of curve wise for standard. For instance this card is alright on turn 2, that is if you are going second and will be following up this card with playing coin EVIL Miscreant on turn 3.
Literal Combo Extender
Very bad, will never see any play.
I've played plenty of Rogue. Tell me, how many decks have you seen that run Defias Ringleader, Cutthroat Buccaneer, Kidnapper or Headcrack lately? You can even get more useless stuff, like a Raiding Party in a deck without pirates.
That's completely wrong. Rogue doesn't care about generating value, they're all about tempo. If you fall behind on tempo before you've set up lethal with burst, you'll never be able to retake the board again. This isn't mage, or priest, or warrior we're talking about.
Rogues care first and foremost about tempo. Everything else is secondary. If you have a card that brings a lot of tempo and also brings value, sure, that's a good card to include in your rogue deck. That's why cards like EVIL Miscreant are great in rogue, they bring a lot of stats and board effects as well as some value.
You know what card's the definition of a bad tempo card? A 2 mana 1/2.
But I guess we'll see in a few weeks.
I think you're looking at it the wrong way. Tempo is primary for Rogue because that's its STRENGTH. Value is a WEAKNESS for Rogue and tempo decks in general. Yet every deck needs value if it can't consistently win in 7ish turns.
Historically, Rogues have been willing to play a 6 Mana 4/4 in order to gain value. Auctioneer is a terrible tempo play but they made up for the loss in tempo with all their strong tempo cards, and it in turn made up for the loss in value of those tempo cards. This is the same idea. It doesn't generate value particularly well, but in doing so it covers a huge hole that Rogue decks need covered, and makes up for one of their biggest weaknesses.
Multiple reasons why that's wrong. First off, yes, every deck that's not pure agro needs some value, but rogues don't lack for value from higher tempo cards, not by a longshot. Rogue has a dozen different value generators that are higher tempo than this one is, so why the hell would you play this one?
Secondly, your example of Gadgetzan Auctioneer isn't a even as low tempo play as this one is. Sure, 6 mana for a 4/4 is bad, but you never play it on curve (unless you think you can make it stick for whatever reason, like with Conceal historically), you play it when you can combo it with the cheap spells which all have their own beneficial effects. You're typically dealing damage with backstabs, removing minions with prep sap or eviscerate, and so on, every spell you play with Auctioneer has an additional beneficial effect and most of those generate tempo (since removing enemy minions is also a tempo play). Also worth noting that Auctioneer saw most of it's play as a 5/5, and much less as a 6/6.
Lastly, Gadgetzan Auctioneer didn't really see any play in tempo decks at all, which is why your example actually proves my point. Neither Miracle Rogue nor any rogue Combo deck where Auctioneer was played historically was a tempo deck. We have a tempo rogue deck right now - the "Hooktusk Rogue". Guess how many of them include Gadgetzan Auctioneer? A big fat zero.
So if a tempo Rogue deck doesn't want this card, the only option left is a miracle or combo deck of some sort, but those really don't want to generate random cards, they want to draw cards that get them closer to whatever their own win condition is, so they obviously don't want this.
So here's a question for you, which deck would you put this into? Either a historic deck that's in the wild now, a deck that saw play the past year in standard or even a new deck you can envision from the cards released so far, I'll take any answer. Because I certainly wouldn't put this into any of them.
The art a bit looks like Sonya from HoTS.
Female Barbarian from D3*
Ah lol, with all these same characters everywere i even forgot it lol, thx for remind:D
If Spirit of the Shark taught us anything, is a 4 mana card that gives power to all your combo or battlecry minions is hugely impactful. Changing it to just combo, but expanding it to cards in general and lowering the mana cost to 2 seems to imply a similiar power level. The only interesting thing is, will tempo rogue find a spot for it (definitely is sideboards, I wager, not sure about the primaru deck).
People are overrating this card. Check the combo cards in rogue's arsenal, there's some really good ones, but the majority are awful and never see play. Add to that the fact that this card is very underwhelming stat-wise, and I sincerely doubt it will see any play.
It will be a great card when you discover it from another card in the late game, but I doubt it will be included in any meta decks.
You may have not played Rogue recently, but a lot of cards you'd never put in your deck see play. The amount of generated cards and spells you play with every tempo rogue deck is insane.
This is just generating value. Generating value, even a small amount, is usually worth it. There are hardly any combo cards that are not worth gaining, even if you don't high roll the Edwyn.