Hearthpwn

seems like this been alot of this post or similar.

I agree, I use this site as a single source of information for hearthstone. This should have priority post equivalent to a expansion release for this news. lol

I see the problem from a f2p. Standpoint, were someone putting lil resources making a deck and now that deck no good cause of 1 or 2 cards. Sure you can get dust back from those 2 nerf card but what about the other 10-15-20 you made to make the deck that now useless I get it.

But on the other side a player like myself wants nerfs every month, nerfs = change.

Blizz should find a way to introduce change monthly without having to destroy cards.

until they figure that out, I say keep bringing the nerfs 

Quote from MatthiasL3791 >>

I want to talk about ice lance.

Ice Lance had two components. One, freeze an enemy. Two, if it's already frozen, do something else.

Ice Lance did four damage. Four damage is worth about 3-4 Mana, 3 if it's to a minion, probably closer to four if it's face. This card was deemed too powerful, so it was sent to the HoF.

Now, we are being told the HoF is for cards that don't really fit the class ideology. Well, if it fit the class ideology, let's just nerf it instead.

Here is the thing. Ice Lance is about freezing dudes, and dealing damage with spells. That is entirely what mage is about. Freeze and burn.  So why wasn't it just nerfed? Raise it's cost one Mana or drop it to 3 damage?

I'll tell you why. So they could print f---ing snap freeze. Snap freeze is freeze a guy, if he is frozen, do something else. That something else is destroy a minion. Destroy a minion is worth 4-5 Mana. Granted it's a less bursty card, but it's not that different.

Ice Lance didn't go to the HoF because it was overpowered. It went because if was a do everything freeze card. Now that it's gone, they can fill your packs with icicle and snap freeze. 

Moral of the story. Nerfing classic cards is all about selling new cards. So be transparent blizzard. Just rotate the classical set like Kibler says, and print cards and take our money. But don't present bs design philosophy and expect me to swallow it 

 EXACTLY what he said

1 thing i cant' stand is when cards do the EXACT SAME THING as another card after a nerf. 

- innervate is now the coin and rogue also has a card "the coin"

-fiery war axe is the same but  worse as "eaglehorn bow" / shadowblade / "necrium blade:.. for wild "king's defender" / rallying blade / powermace / sharpe fork that 7 different 3mana 3/2 weapons

- new rogue card "pilfer" worse version of "hallucination"

just to name a few

hmmm ya it can be annoying when people intentional rope, its been a while since i've run into anyone doing it.

That being said, the other day i was playing on my phone with a poor connection and it took almost the entire turn for the game/network to process my plays. So it might not be like there intentionally doing it, they could just have a bad connection.

But i do think the turns can be long I loved they shorten the first 2 turns, maybe they can give a player  more/less time based on how many cards are in their hand and/or how many minions you have in play? So if you have a empty board and 1 card in hand, it shouldn't take you 90seconds to make a play for example.

Quote from beppe946 >>

I know I can't pretend a complete different game, so I'll go with little but, from my point of view, important wishes

1) A new tribe: just like with Un'Goro two expansions ago, I'd like some new tribe to build decks around. I don't have particular preferences, but just something with a lot of flavor like Elementals (hail to the Elementals... *hail*).

2) No more infinite value cards without restrictions: cards like Jaina and Rexxar have been a scourge for these months' meta (did you get the pun? no?...). I know that this kind of cards are really good for merchandise and for recruiting new players, but they make the meta kinda frustrating. On the other hand, Hagatha and Boom are strong, but they are held back by relevant RNG factors.

3) Gold: now that we receive three expansions per year without adventures, we have a lot more cards to play with and the cost of the game has been raised. I appreciate the fact that now missions reward better than last year, but I'd like another push in this way, however it comes.

4) More aggressiveness with nerfs: please don't let us die in an unbalanced meta! Keep doing like you did with the Level-Up patch (I'm talking about times, not results, since Hunter may be a little too much overpowered), that's the right play to make your loyal fanbase even wider.

That's it: I'll be happy if at least two of these wishes will come reality 

Quote from RavenSunHP >>

1. New Wild policy, which turns it into an eternal mode that is not cancerized by a couple of decks.
2. Menu interface and Hero portraits revamp.
3. No nerfs with ******** timing, that leave a full class with no meta decks (eg. the last Druid nerf).

 What they said

Quote from Xynot >>

Making updates to live production software is far more involved than going in and editing some code, especially if UI elements are involved.  Where I work, changing even a constant in the code is a minimum of $2K of expense when you sum up all the process, testing, and review of the change.  There is no such thing as a simple change when the effect could be a botched release and patch cycle - remember what happened when they messed up the new season roll, that got expensive and embarrassing quickly.

 ya see I don't know anything about that stuff, seems like a small changes to me. I can only think of 3 things they changed 1. 19 decks slot 2.Wild/Standard button 3.TavernBrawl. Then you look at a mobile game like clash royale, its like what haven't they changed.(I compare to that cause its the only other card/type game i play)

going back to money i'm not surprised blizz released another Wild bundle pack, and that all that seems to change is new cards for hopefully a new meta.

Now all they need to do is actually make Wild worth playing

Quote from bjorn_77 >>

money

 I can't image little changes like that taking too long. I play clash royale and that game been revamped countless times, adding game modes, achievements, emotes you name it. Meanwhile hearthstone the EXACT SAME since day 1

Not talking about current meta or balance, things like interface, achievements, rewards new things to do and look forward to. Only thing they've done is introduce tavern brawl and more deck slots. 

The smallest stuff like in card collection why do I need gold and non gold cards to appear in 2 different spots.  I have a few pages where it's 4 cards shown instead of 8 cause gold takes 2 spots on the page.

This is just an example but tons of small little changes are way over due IMO.

not sure how much time i got but ive been playing pretty consistently since gvg, there are lot of times ya games super stale and boring but you gotta realize with that much time its inevitable especially since they barely add anything for rewards or achievements. 

ya those emotes along with the voice are terrible

Looking to see if anyone down to play some custom games on NA server, hit me up tcipps#1814

One of those  nights feel like playing hearthstone but not this meta

Quote from DiamondDM13 >>

Quote from tcipps >>

2. rock/paper/scissor w.e you want to call it, i'm not going to pretend i know whats best here, all i was trying to say is, having lost a game from turn 1 just on a bad matchup to me feels bad, having none of my decisions matter feels bad. I've never felt this way about hearthstone as much as i do now, and many streamers feel the same way, I'd like to think they know more and can express more than I can about it. So I'll STFU about this.

3. you probably don't care about achievements but others do, I apologize to diamond about my language but it infuriates me when people suggest playing another game. cause thats exactly what blizzard wants right is for us to spend money elsewhere. ya ok there are many players who arent at 500wins but what about the veteran players who are at 1000 - 1500 wins. shouldn't they continue to have goals to work towards?

 2. I think it is important to state this, but frustration doesn't equate to a problem with balance or design, since frustration is mostly subjective, and is triggered differently depending on each subjective perspective, which each person has.

The thing is, when a Strategy Card Game is in perfect balance, the Rock Paper Scissors model is unavoidable, specially the higher the Technical Play of the players involved. If you have two players playing perfectly, reality is their decision will not influence the outcome of the game because it was determined by the advantage of that specific match-up. That doesn't mean their decisions don't matter at all, the first, most important decision any player makes in a strategy card game, is their STRATEGY.

Shouldn't be too difficult to guess this aspect, but that is the reality, your strategy is by far the most important determining factor deciding games, and this factor increases more and more when you increase the quality of both the balance of the game and the technical play from the players. 

Just ask yourself this question:

If you opponent is playing a strategy that is weak against your strategy, and you played as well as he did, or even better than he did, why should he ever be allowed to overcome that strategic advantage you have? Specially if you both played at a similar level, or at a perfect level. Unless there is clear room for your opponent to outplay you, unless you make a lot of mistakes, there is no reason why they should be able to beat you.

3. Apology accepted, a good sign of your character, which is pleasant, a rarity online.

I also would like to have Goals to work towards, my European server is almost literally devoid of objectives to accomplish. I've reached Legend multiple times, I have all Heroes well above 500 Wins, I have completed all the Adventure modes, I've even completed my self imposed challenge to complete everything normal and Heroic with only the Mage class, I have a very large collection which includes all the cards I want to own and those I'll even think of using. I am only missing 12 wins in Arena in this server, only achieved 10, but I hate that game Mode so I am not too worried. (Besides I have 12 wins in Asia)

I would only stand to gain from the introduction of more Goals, I'm slowly achieving the old ones in the Americas and Asia (I already got Golden Mage in these two as well), but I know it is not going to happen anytime soon. Blizzard themselves stated that they have no interest in adding features which only a really small percentage of the player base will get to enjoy, even if that would not require much effort (like the Halloween proposal I made).

 I'm gonna start by saying DiamondDM13 your good people, you have a better understanding on balance and strategy more than i ever will. Now to quote you

"If you have two players playing perfectly, reality is their decision will not influence the outcome of the game because it was determined by the advantage of that specific match-up"

I think that another underlining problem, "playing perfectly" is too easy or doesn't matter. remember back i think even before standard was even introduced a matchup like control priest vs control warrior. Every card was a resource, do i play this minion, do i draw, should i wast my weapon attack on this, should i try to wait for alex then follow with grom for 2 turn lethal. Each turn was a decision and playing "perfectly" was very hard.

Fast forward to now, it doesn't matter if i do this or that, I have infinite resources he doesn't, eventually he looses. to me the "strategy" has turned into "luck" more now than before. 

Quote from EternalHS >>

Quote from tcipps >>

Quote from DiamondDM13 >>

I'll address you by points.

1. You are looking at this from an entirely ridiculous perspective. Hearthstone is very expensive, but comparing Hearthstone, a Strategy Card Game, to any normal video game, like an Action game, a Shooter, and so on, is completely nonsensical.

Strategy Card Games are, have been, and likely will always be very expensive hobbies. This has been true far before Hearthstone came out, and from someone who played decades of physical strategy card game, HS is actually not very expansively comparatively.

If you want to argue how expansive HS is, you are perfectly free to do so, but please, avoid making a comparison with anything that is not exactly the same as HS. Compare Apples with Apples, not Apples with Oranges.

2. Rock Paper Scissors is what a perfect balances looks like in any Strategy Card Game, anyone who doesn't enjoy this aspect of card games might need to look elsewhere. Either that, of hope for unbalanced game states, where decks are at a much higher power level compared to the rest, meaning they easily and consistently overpower other decks, regardless of their natural advantage, just by sheer brute force.

Blizzard shouldn't make changes just to "refresh" the Metagame, they have a large audience they don't want to alienate with constant card changes (Yes, card changes easily alienate players, anytime a player sees a card needed for decks they enjoy changes, it is a heavy reason to stop playing, as they no longer can play what they enjoy). They need to make changes when there are balance problems, which is not the case right now, the game has been very healthy in terms of balance recently. You haven't played for long, but the game was largely unbalanced across all these years, you do not want to ruin what they achieved just for the sake of refreshment.

3. If the game is boring and not fun, that is usually a clue to do something else, like take a break. The more you play, and the more consistently you do so, and the more frequently you do, the higher and higher is the chance that you hit that breaking point. The Diminishing Returns point. Past this point you are just going to keep obtaining less and less amounts of enjoyment out of this activity, because you are exhausting yourself constantly doing the same thing.

The actual problem in Hearthstone right now, is the fact that Blizzard want to juggle two directions for the game which are just not possible to coincide. Having a truly widespread appeal, casual, wacky game full of crazy stuff to do will not work for a very competitive and extremely engaged scene, like those players that played absurd amounts of hours, be it very engaged players, streamers, or competitive players.

While you might want to point to games like Magic The Gathering for cases of both directions working, I'd ask you to check again, and see if they actually work for the first direction above.

The casual appeal of Hearthstone, where you can easily just pick it up and play at any point without much issues to get back in, where you expect a constant base of knowledge and cards that provides the pillars for this direction of the game, does not match with the hyper competitive approach, which requires constant changes, constant release of content and a very strong competitive circuit to enter. Reality is there is no sweet middle spot they can reach, because almost the entire player base is on one of the extremes, the very casual, and the very engaged.

 1. I do agree hearthstone as a card game is expensive but you can't compare it to other games, I never cared about dropping 100-150$ per expansion but really gets me is all the card rotating out makes that investment useless. Ya ok you can "play those cards in wild", wild sucks - majority of people don't play it. disagree? then why do i queue up against the same opponent 10x more often, why does it take 2min at times to find a match, why am i being paired with someone 10 ranks away from mine. I can go on forever about wild. but not getting full value out of my money is my problem 135cards in an expansion and at best 30 are used is a waste - ao yes i agree hearthstone is expansive in that regard.

2.what on earth are you smoking 'rock paper scissor a perfect balance" i don't ever remember hearthstone being this polarizing. countless people who actually play this game 5+hours a day (kibler/zalae/forgotisname..........) all agree this is a problem. People who actually play this game for more than 5min a day realize this is a problem

3.STFU, people like you are the problem. This game has been out for what 4years now, NOTHING as far as achievement/rewards have been added this is long overdue for that.

1.) Wrong. It is clear that you don't even play wild mode. I play wild exclusively. I've been playing wild and writing about it for a year and a half as a side job so I'm pretty confident when I say that I've played it more than most people on this forum. No, it doesn't take forever to find a match. It takes as long as it takes in standard, maybe a few seconds more. No, you don't get paired against the same person 10x in a row. It is more likely in casual but in standard it doesn't happen outside of ranks 5-legend but what would you know about that side of the ladder. You don't get paired with a person 10 ranks away from yours. Last time that happened was when the rotating formats were introduced. I'm sure that you can go on ranting about wild forever, human stupidity doesn't have limits after all, and I'm sure that all of your posts will be proven wrong by people who actually play the mode.

I'm not surprised that you lack any sort of education in the field of card games so let me make this clear for you. Rotating formats are healthy for the game! It is the only way to shake the metagame more often and it causes less balancing issues for the development team. Every single competitive card game out there has a rotating format but hey, you who lacks the basic knowledge on how they work know better, right?

Bad cards, not tier 1-2 cards, are usually developed for a draft like format such as arena. Bad cards exist in every game. Most sets in other card games have 4-5 actually really good cards, about 10 ok cards and the rest is draft filler and those games have a 230+ card sets.

2.) I'll just repeat what Diamond said because he said it perfectly. Anyone that fails to know how perfect balance works in a Strategy Card Game (this is you, btw) should present any logical argument to the contrary rather than try to appeal to authority arguments. I don't care who states they dislike the Rock Paper Scissors model, what they achieved or not, this is not a matter of popularity, it is a matter of facts and balance.

3.) I don't care about achievements and neither does Blizzard. Why do you even what them? Do you really need something else to be bad at in this game? 

1. ok first of all eternalHS i never said "10x in a row" i said 10x more often. learn to read.  Also i never said anything about rotating sets, I agree standard is the best thing the hearthstone team ever did. Yes i understand that cards are fillers, without creating a giant wall of text you can argue that some cards that should see play don't because they don't match the power level or don't fit in to the current meta and that makes it feel like a waste. take a card like Sideshow Spelleater that never saw play, in wild it also will never see play, but in this meta with all the DK it could. So that what i mean by waste.

2. rock/paper/scissor w.e you want to call it, i'm not going to pretend i know whats best here, all i was trying to say is, having lost a game from turn 1 just on a bad matchup to me feels bad, having none of my decisions matter feels bad. I've never felt this way about hearthstone as much as i do now, and many streamers feel the same way, I'd like to think they know more and can express more than I can about it. So I'll STFU about this.

3. you probably don't care about achievements but others do, I apologize to diamond about my language but it infuriates me when people suggest playing another game. cause thats exactly what blizzard wants right is for us to spend money elsewhere. ya ok there are many players who arent at 500wins but what about the veteran players who are at 1000 - 1500 wins. shouldn't they continue to have goals to work towards?