Hearthpwn

Greeting fellow hearthstone players,i would like to state that this is not a whiny rage for the deck just my honest concerns about it's superiority.I managed to reach  legend fairly early last month so i had the opportunity for the first time to play many games in legend ranking.I mainly play handlock( classic or demon) and i noticed that more that half of my games were against patron.So out of curiosity started to count my games.Well 58 out of 89 games were against patron.So almost 70% of my games were against one deck and I won 32 out of those games.This really peaked my interest so i built patron warrior my self.I played 12 games and won 9.Luckily for me i played against handlock only once and most of games were against mirror  and druids but i finally understood why this deck is so dominant.It is the strongest deck  since i started playing( 9 months ago) by far.

Sorry for the lengthy introduction but i wanted to explain how i reached in my conclusion.Now lets debunk the weaknesses of the deck.

1)''It requires many cards to pull of'':This is a non existent weakness simply because almost 1/3 of the deck are floaters which ensure that you will have the cards you need and most of the times you need the combo only once to win,while you have 2 copies of your 3 necessary minions.

2)''You can tech against it'':Well the truth is you can't.Your tech is weapon removal and aoe.Lets talk about weapon removal first.I honestly thought this was a good tech against them until i played patron my self.Even when my deathspite was ''oozed'' or ''joned'' it was more of a nuisance than a blow to my strategy.Simply because i had wirlwind or inner rage or just a second deathspite in  hand almost always.After that i removed ooze even from my handlock deck.Lets talk about aoes.Patron warrior doenst need a board.Their patrons exist: a) to built damage,b)to go through taunts and c)mosty to buff their berserkers.Most of the games that i played vs patron whether i won or lost my hellfires sat in hand.Almost all the games i lost vs patron they killed me from 20+ hp from empty board.So aoe's dont shut them down.However if you don't have aoe in your deck or if you are unlucky in your class then you instandly lose.Long story short aoe's give you 50% chance to win otherwise you can hit concede against patron.

3)''It's a skill demanding deck'':Ok this is my subjective opinion but i didnt find the deck extremely hard to play.It was a somewhat harder version of combo druid that has twice the power and the concistency.Generally no matter the deck you play against your objective is clear.Create your desirable hand and unleash the combo.So a mediocore and a great patron warrior win most of the times the same way.What makes the skill differance is  actually the usage of your floaters ,weapons and removals so you can unleash your combo more efficiently.

4)''It has many counter decks'': Patron warrior has no real counters ,it has mainly 2 unfavourable match ups :the handlock and the CW.Those decks however are not counters simply because their winrate is 55%(liquidhearth stats) on average vs patron.A counter is considered an A deck that wins more than 60+% vs an B deck.For example anti aggro priest is counter to face hunter.

5)''There is interaction'' : There is not i will explain why.You have 3 choices vs patron:

a)Try to burst him fast with early board control:This a fuel to your pyre,not only the early game defensive cards ensure his survival but the minions that will be left will increase the damage of the combo.

b)Try to built a solid board with mid game value minions:You will not recover the board in time simply because he will have armormith,dread corsair etc already on board and in the end your board will be used against you.

c)Put only heavy threats and strong taunts:It this case you give patron all the time he needs to gather the cards he wants to one shot you and to execute your taunts to get you.

So no matter your strategy the deck has a perfect answer,the only way to lose is not to get the cards or to missuse them.Long story short you win if the patron is unlucky or he missplays.If you read this:''I dont play patron warrior but you can counter it simply by not floading the board'' it's  either a patron player that don't wants his deck to be balanced or a player that has no idea what he is talking about,

That being said i think that the deck can be easily balanced,in my opinion the best way is to make berserker gain attack on enemy OR on your minions not on both.

Thanks for the reading,share your thoughs and have fun

Quote from JinshiroHS jump

Since patron is out i think we have the healthiest meta for a long time. PW is the clean up guy, the one that keeps all the toxic face hunters and other aggro decks low. i mean: a deck that has a good matchup against face hunter, zoo and aggro paladin? sign me up, i will play that all day. if i lose to handlock, who cares. handlock is skill players, so i am fine losing to that. What you think?

Bitch plz,you dont give a fuck about the meta,you found an op deck to play and you try to excuse your self for some reason.I reached legend the previous season and 59 out of 86 games were vs patron.When 70% of legendary decks are patron there is something wrong.I play handlock their natural counter and still lose about 45% of my games because of how reliable their combo is.Every deck that is this dominant is not healthy.Is it better than the facetard meta?Yeap it is.But is the lesser evil not a healthy choice.They need to nerf the frothing berserker and still would be a super strong deck.It is op,try to defend it but anything that can do 30+ dam  with 0 boards and goes through taunts is op.

'' But it requires so many cards to be reliable bla blad dur dur''Yeah only that their 1/3 of deck are floaters that make SURE that will have the cards they need.Also for the pro players that say learn to counter and stupid thing like that:Bitches plz i built patron my self and i got 9 out of 12 games in legend ranks last season.The deck is hard to counter and it has moderate skill demand.I dont get what make everyone say that is a hard deck to play lol.It's not a face hunterd or combo druid but it's not echo mage either.It's even easier than handlock.

Quote from LXimenes jump

Face hunter needs a lot of thinking and calculation to deal with de meta.
And he is not so strong these days either.

HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!Face hunter needs a lot of thinking and calculation!Damm mate you made my day.Good one! :D.I haven't read a joke to make me tear in a while.Here take my upvote.

Quote from fabisco jump

Quote from Piterik jump

control warrior was an example and if you wouldn't be such blinded with hate towards my person you would actually see that he has most favourably matchup vs aggros due to stacking armor so basically you made all your statements wrong

ignore functon is on for some people. so Don't waste time insulting me.

Ok, I won't disturb your litte world anymore, a world where aggro is impossible to beat for a heroic albeit tragic (and not to forget suuuper smart) control player... Just let me say those final words: Your hate has nothing to do with any lack of skill or understanding at this game, your play is flawless, and shame on Blizzard for keeping you away from the success you, before all other persons in this game, deserve the most!

 Man don't be a douchebag,you have the right to disagree with him  and you make some fine points even i though i disagree with many of them.So no need to personally attack him.It's not civil or constructive.

Quote from johncenapogchamp jump

Imagine being this clueless or delusional about the state of Hearthstone in general.

 

Aggro decks are some of the weakest decks in the game and only succeed partially due to a lot of general indifference to aggressive strategies in general.

 

Many of the best decks have natural tools to deal with aggro (see Warrior) without compromising build options whatsoever. There about 3 decks in the game that even qualify as classic aggro decks, Face Hunter, Aggro Pally and Zoo, and none of them are top tier. If anything there needs to be an answer to big burst combos because that is what is actually dominating the metagame currently.

 

 

Basically the idiocy of this thread boils down to, and is alluded to by the rest of the content in the thread(for example calling Unstable Ghoul a bad card)  is that the OP wants to have his cake and eat it to. He wants cards that will be super strong against everything so he can play his greedy control decks and still easily shut down aggro strategies while not giving up anything in return.

 

There are other games for that, poorly balanced that no one plays but you can look hard enough and find one.

 Yeah not only you missed my point,but you are also offensive.Why are so butthurted?Do you play smorc?When did i say that aggro is op?I have to repeat my self again and again but people like you refuse to listen.I guess there is the allure of feeling smarter than anyone else when you are obviously not.Aggro is NOT OP.Aggro is BORING and most of the times COIN FLIP to play against.That's why i ask for more and fun ways to shut it down so the game to become more fun for both sides.

So the unstable goul is a good card?Why so?Why only patron is playing  it then?If you are so smart gives the rest of us the info we dont have.Not only you call the rest of us stupid  but you are giving 0 arguments against ours.

Yeah i want to play my big fat minions with 0 risks that's why i ask for more defensive options at 2-3 mana.I want to play fat guys when i ask for quality defensive minions at 2-3 mana seems legit -_-

Quote from Snatch_Steal jump

You want tech cards to not have draw backs? Give me anti-agro card that is useful in control matchups... lol ok mate whatever you say

 I want tech cards that are good against aggro and meh against everything else but not complete garbage.Is that too much?

Quote from sigtrent jump

I fail to understand how agro is broken and the counters are too weak when nearly every tournament deck is control and mid-range, and the upper echelons of the ladder and legend are primarily control and mid-range where agro struggles to carve out a niche.

if there were no good agro counters everyone would always play agro. So to me, the OP must be wrong whatever his opinions of individual cards are. Right now, the best counter to agro tends to be:  (have some healing, beat them on card value) Antique healbot is actually one of the key anti-agro cards in the current game.

 I never said aggro is op or broken.I said it's dull and coin flip and that's because the only good anti aggro card that's below 5 mana(blecher,healbot)is chow.There is also farseer and senji but they are mediocore at what they are doing   most of the times to have a place in most decks.I also think is bad to compare tournaments with ranked play.In tournaments not only players have access to every card but they are pros .The point of my post wasn't that we cant beat aggro or that we have 0 tools against aggro but that the good answers we have  are so few that our decks become dull and boring.Every control deck has to have the same anti aggro cards just to have a chance.It's true that good control decks have a higher winrate that aggro,afterall i reached legend with my deamon handlock. However if even if you win 60% vs aggro but you lose 40% instandly it feels bad doesnt it?

Quote from Parhelion88 jump

So much salt in this thread...

If you guys played MTG, then you'd realize that aggro is a needed archetype, otherwise, games would be incredibly long, exhausting and boring.

 

Also, EVERY CLASS has access to healing, something unthinkable on MTG and other TCG. There are far more answers against aggro in Hearthstone than in other games. Midrange decks are usually bad on other games for instance...

Finally, the "solutions" posted here make aggro unplayable, so it basically kills the archetype.And there has to be balance, complaining that preparing against aggro makes you weak against control is just stupid. OFC that has to happen, you can't be good against everything. If you wanna be better against control, you become weaker against aggro and vice-versa. 

Some of you guys really need to get a little more game theory before complaining like this. And to be a complete player, you should also play as aggro, then you'll see its weaknesses and understand how to play against them. Don't blame luck, cancer or other ridiculous claims. Just get better at the game.

 Where did you see the salt dude?As for ''get better in the game'' it's irrelevant.Miracle rogues said the same,hunters said the same pre uth and undertaker nerf etc.My post wasn't about aggro being op at all anyway.Was about quality answers to them and they dont exist whether you want to admit or not.Let compare haunted creeper 3/4 for 2 mana unless silenced.Where is the defensive counterpart for it?Why there cant be a  2/4  taunt(-1 stat for taunt) for 2 mana?Why the vaule of  the defensive minions have stayed to the vanilla levels when the aggro's vaule has skyrocket?

Quote from LambMine jump

Quote from GG_Garrison jump

• healing in the current meta: Antique Healbot 
• deathrattle: Earth Shock - Hex best deathrattle counters since the old ages
• taunt wall: Earth Elemental - Feral Spirit
• anti swarm: Forked Lightning - Lightning Storm

I still believe if you want to create an anti-aggro deck on the cheap side, shaman can do the job. The real problem is that you should commit to much to kill them aggros that you wouldn't kill anyone else.

 As someone who routinely tries to build anti-aggro decks on my mage, the biggest problem with anti-aggro decks is the incredibly small window you have to draw cards that will keep you in the game. You have to draw well just to have a fighting chance while the aggro decks don't. Even if you do draw your healbot or whatever in the first couple rounds to counter the early onslaught, you have to continue to draw well enough to make it to the late game.

It's just broken, imo. It makes it feel like you aren't even playing against your opponent, instead it feels like you're playing against the draw of the deck.

 

 This is so true because we haven't  good answers for aggro but many bad ones .What we do have are removals and crappy anti aggro cards so we dont need to draw one of them but many of them just to stand a chance.I am not a game designer but i would love to see a mini blecher 3 mana for 2/3 taunt with  deathrattle summon 1/2 taunt,or a 0/1 taunt with dearthrattle deal 2 damage to all minions for 2 mana, or 0/3 taunt with deathrattle silence all minions for 3 mana. Some cards that unless are silenced will give you a breathing room to work on your winning strategy.I think that will make the game harder but more enjoyable for aggro players too since they will have to think how to play around them and not just vommiting damage to the enemy hero

I was trying to say that aggro doesnt tech against mid range or control.There isnt a good anti aggro card that will make a face deck say''oh look i have to put this x card to my deck otherwise that anti aggro card will  ruin my game'' For control players though thats the norm.

Also i know that control decks are expensive.As a f2p it took me more that 4 months to built the deck i wanted but i dont mind that the majority of decks that i play against are aggro or aggroish  mid range (even in legendary rank :D).What bothers me is that we dont have decent answers to them.That will make the game more intresting and fun.Aggro doesnt have to be coin flip as it is now.

You are most welcome :)

As the title implies i think we dont have good answers against aggro.The problem with the current anti aggro tech cards are that are either dead cards vs control and mid range or even a disadvantage.While i think aggro style is necesarry and should exist,its way to powerfull and simplistic.Players will defend it cause because they like cheaps wins and to tell the truth isnt the aggro decks themselves the problem but the lack of good answers to them.I reached legend last season and i reach always ranks 5-1.I am not saying that i am pro because i obviously i am not but i  have a rather good knowledge of the game.What control decks luck(my favourite type of decks) is anti aggro cards that  dont make you shot your foot against other types of deck and slowly but gradually built you win conditions.I will try to explain why most anti aggro tech cards are bad at least imo.

Firstly the good anti aggro cards we have are

Zombie chow :The king of anti aggro and it's great when you have it early in the game.Useless when it comes later and generally an mediocore overall card but  it gets the job done

Sludge belcher:While it cost 5 mana it's the best taunt in the game,great at defending you against a bunch of smaller minions.

And that's it......Those are the good neutral anti aggro cards we have,the rest are garbage 

Uselless anti aggro cards

Deathlord:2-8 health with taunt useless?Are you stupid bruh?Well it is.While is good against face decks it's a worst than a dead card against everything else.Even against face decks is very good but not great because it will soak 1-2 chargers + weapons and will bring another one in the enemy board when it dies.The only class that can use it efficiently is priest.

Explosive sheep: Ultra useless card.The problem with this card is that only mage can activate the turn that it's played without burning an extra card to do it.Even then it's a 4 mana(cost+hero power) consecration that doesnt hits the enemy's hero but your own minions as well.Every other class has to use 2 cards to do it or just simply put it on board and waiting the enemy to silence it or just ingoring it and smorc you. 

Annoy-o-Tron: It's not as bad as the previous cards but it's not good either unless you play a mech deck.It will soak 2 attacks from smaller minions and then die while not killing anything most of the times.Most aggro minions have 2 health anyway.

Unstable ghoul:Warrior says hi :D Seriously this card is like pressing concede against warrior(patron+control) and  doesnt do much against anything else. As 1/3  it will die to almost anything and do 1 damage to the rest of minions.Even pure face decks wont give a shit about it because most aggro minions have 2 health or divine shield(aggro pally yeaay) .

I mentioned only neutral cards because they are the core of the game.Also i think it's rather unfair that we have to tech bad cards in control decks just not istant lose against aggro while aggro decks dont have to do the same.Anyway thanks for reading and have a nice day.

Hahahahahaahahahahahah nice one mate!Nice one!You made me tear from laughs thank you!Damm that was a good joke i will tell it to my friends too! :D