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- iandakar
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0
What makes Zoo work is that the cards work well independently. Juggler has great synergy. However, even alone a 3/2 is a good 2 drop. That sort of thing. Even cards that are less useful alone synergize with many other cards in the deck. Thus Argent Protector works with any board state you have that isn't about to lose. Also note that a card in zoo that is in synergy becomes insane. Thus zoo takes good cards and synergizes them to be broken.
Thus the problem: Mistress NEEDS buffs to make her competent. Otherwise, she's too weak. Thus she becomes the weak link in the series any buff that can make her workable could've made another card insane. She has 4 health, but being able to hit a minion twice doesn't matter since she needs to hit something twice to kill it anyway. Compare to a 2/4, which can KILL most 1-2 drops and survive. A minion that can, at best, kill 1 minion (and many times not even that) that gives 2 health is still a bad card for a deck like zoo, even at 2 mana.
The healing is a non-issue as well. Zoo decks are aggro based: they aren't made for long runs. Thus a zoo shouldn't even be in a state where they need to regain health to keep going. Either they can freely tap and race the opponent to death or ..well.. die. Also note that around the time that zoo becomes at risk of tap death is when other decks start being able to lob off 10-20 damage a turn. This is why zombie chow works well against them: it doesn't matter that they gained 10 health: that's just one more turn before you die.
Mistress is basically the armorsmith of warlock. She's made for midrange/control decks that want healing since they DO plan on staying around and tap for a while.
0
contents has a point there. The problem with small value cards is the card supply. Every time you play more than one card, you're draining your resources. You then have to use generally weak or gimmicky card draw mechanics that trade tempo to recharge which gives your opponent time to take advantage and win over you. That's why aggro decks burn out after their initial rush.
Meanwhile, you're looking too closely at the raw numbers and not into card abilities. Zombie chow, for example, has a 2/3 body but gives 5 health to your opponent upon death, making him difficult to get value outside of pulling him in the early game. fire imp trades 10% of your health just to drop him and, if he's killed immediately, can offer no benefit to you in response.
Rag, meanwhile, does 8 damage to a targe each turn, including the turn he's played. Tirion is very hard to remove without a limited number of hard removal cards and gives a 15 damage weapon. They can easily turn a match completely around or flat out end it all by themselves. It's rare for juggler to do that on his own. And note that if he is removed, he's just one card among 30, compared to the 4-5 cards that an aggro deck loses if their counter is found.
A typical Control deck can have Rag be BGHed and keep rolling, but can easily win if BGH doesn't show up in time. A typical aggro deck can win easily if their 4-5 card synergy is uncontested, but the cost of losing those 5 cards to a 1-2 card AOE counter typically means GG. That's the other side of the stat curve.
And besides, another thing to consider: higher stats do NOT help at higher mana costs. 1-4 mana minions rely mostly on their attack and health. 6-10 cost minions, however, cannot do that because dropping a high attack/health minion that doesn't do anything is considered a waste. Thus it's better to give up attack/health to gain effects that would give you an advantage. Thus instead of a 12/12 vanilla minion you want a 8/8 giant that can be dropped at turn 4 or a 6/6 minion that has taunt/divine shield and grants a powerful weapon.
And ANOTHER thing, some minions are purposely stated to deal with threats. For example, 6 attack is much more coveted than 7+ attack since it keeps it from being hit by BGH.
Note that trading stats for effects is the basis behind rarity (the more rare the minion, the more unique the effect and the most it can trade stats for more effects). Thus why legendaries tend to be in the higher stat range and why most common high mana cards stink.
0
The problem isn't that you used a Recom on a 2 drop. Stuff happens. The problem is that you were forced to make a bad deal and are now grumbling at RNG about it and wanting the card changed so that you don't get what you got instead of accepting that it was just a poor play you were forced to do due to situations.
It's like being forced to drop a Rag when both sides are at lethal and the opponent has 7 minions on the board, then screaming about RNG because Rag hit a 1/1 minion instead of the face.
it's less about the play and more about the tone of the post.
Though now that I think about it, I'm wondering just how bad a situation you were in that you NEEDED another 2 drop on the ground (the recomb) to survive rather than just holding it for a better play.
Or more likely, what sort of board state were you in that you could NOT just not play a card that turn YET a 3/2 that did nothing was enough to give you a chance to win?
2
The problem is that testing it would be a big risk. If it turns out that putting her back to her old stats revives the old decks that made her powerful then we'd destabilize the meta all over again and have to drop her back down. And if she doesn't, then there' s agood chance that the buff will do nothing to help her in the meta making the effort of changing her and testing her over and over worthless.
I like to deem Unleash the Hounds as the perfect example of what happens when you decide to alter a card via a non-flat nerf.
The card's original function of giving beasts charge was devastating so they changed it into a new form: create x number of hounds, and set it to 4 mana.
The result was a worthless card as 4 mana cost too much so they gave it 2 mana to buff it. The result was the Era of the Hunter. It took several nerfs, including one to Buzzard, which was normally never intended to work with UTH (as UTH didn't create beasts when buzzard was made) to finally calm things down.
Nerfs typically hurt just the card or, if the deck was relying to omuch on it, a particular deck. Buffs can easily warp an entire meta into insanity. Meta warping is fine in expansions when your intention is to Change Everything. You don't want such things happening every 2 weeks.
1
If Miracle still exists in its old form this would be a great counter card. As is though..well,
The problem is that a lot of 4-5 drops have more than 4 health. Thus Lobber will, chances are, hit a minion that won't die to it. Then you're left with a minion that's WAYY too weak for the situation.
Note that all of the 'do damage' battlecry minions tend to not really work outside arena.
Flamecannon? There are people who DON'T run this one in constructed or autopick it in arena?
People keep saying that. The thing is, I never EVER see this. In constructed, everyone is running BGH and, thus, can wipe the big body out then use the other 7 mana to deal with the small fries. I've seen her work in Arena, but nowhere near as insanely as others phrase it. If anything, I'd deem her overrated in arena and just properly rated in constructed.
True. I can see this one being underrated
He's too late for aggro (anything 8 mana is 'too late for aggro' be design). Midrange he's a little too slow as well.
He'd be good in control..but hunters don't have a viable control deck. Still don't. That's why Zilla is also in the meh pile.
Second you make a viable hunter control deck is the second you get to put these two legendaries into circulation.
1
Pretty much. Honestly, if it's to the point where I feel #1 has to be an option, I would deem it a better option just not to run aggro. A big point to this game is knowing when it's time to tweak a deck or change your style and when you just need a new deck.
0
Rogues have a lot of weapons now and their own hero power. They really don't need blingtron. Also Bling is best used with weapon killing minions and that's something oil rogue can't waste time with.
Sunwalker..well, the issue is that BK is still highly recommended in many decks for some reason and 6 mana for your taunt is rather too late for aggro decks. If you need a lot of taunt minions then he's great, but that doesn't seem to be a Thing nowadays.
Coghammer, I'm thinking it's hard to fit given that muster for battle is so loved on the 3 mana slot.
As far as underrated, I'm thinking Powermace for Shaman.
0
Mage has had one for a while actually. you can OTK by going double apprentice, double geomancer, 2xfireball, 2x frost bolt, 2xice lance.
It's not nerfed because..well. it's a stupid horrible deck that's on par with divine priest for viability.
Given that, existance isn't enough to qualify a system break. It needs to be viable enough to actually reach the meta. Miracle rogue dominated the top of the ladder and was a major threat in tournaments for most of the game's post-beta existence. Other OTKs were similarly dominating.
So no, just it happening to you in a rare blue moon is just card games being card games. To play a card game is to know that sometimes you WILL lose the second you click play and that's that. It's when OTK becomes a meta thing. As far as whether this shaman is a Divine Priest or a Miracle Rogue..we'll see.
0
Yup, because SoJ isn't a battlecry. It goes Battlecry, Secrets, present card effects.
It result in a very interesting case if you drop a silver hand knight while holding a 1 durability SoJ. You end up with a 4/4 and a 3/3 on your side. Reason battlecries happen first. Thus, despite what the visuals say, the Squire actually touches the ground FIRST as a summon BEFORE the Silver Hand Knight lands. SoJ triggers on summon so it buffs the squire first.
The less you think about what makes logical or visual sense and you focus 100% on the raw rules then HS mechanics make sense. it's when people pull other games or their own logic into it that things seem complex and odd.
0
correct. Battlecries go off before secrets do. Works for all minions. Faceless a deathwing and mirror will copy that. Drop an Injured blademaster and it'll copy the 4/3, not the pre-battlecry 4/7.
0
If you don't specifically have something in mind to craft (aka a legendary you can make exactly right after you DE) then none.
That said, if you DO have something else in mind:
I'd DE Beast for sure. There's just not much point to him even for a Fun deck. After that, I'd consider Nat Pagle as he's just not reliable enough really.
After that, I'd actually put Millhouse on the chopping block. He doesn't really offer anything worthwhile for something real and really, after watching Funny videos of him for a while there's not much else you can really pull from him in a 'fun' aspect.
Of the others, I HAVE heard of folks make use of Tinkmaster before. It's rough but I can see him be of future use. If you don't have ANY legendaries and DEing him means getting one finally then yeah, he's not important, but otherwise, hold him just in case.
Cho is the 'fun' one. If you're 100% competitive and having a match going insane isn't intresting to you then I would put him just below tinkmaster. If you like making the occasional silly deck then he's a keeper. He does bring unpredictable results that can result in some very interesting plays ranging from goofery to actual strategic basis. So if I'd keep one I'd keep him unless, again, you KNOW what legendary you want and he's all that's left to you getting it and you don't really have any others and REALLY REALLY need that legendary to make just the deck you want.
Note, nothing wrong with holding all of them if that last bit doesn't apply: if you don't really NEED a legendary or if you don't have many but aren't really sure what to craft or DEing them doesn't give you enough to get said legendary.
0
I would go for mostly 3 but not because you probably won't see it.
At some point in the game, you have to push for your win condition: that is, the point when you aren't just gaining advantage but aiming to win the game. That is when you're at your most vulnerable since you really can't 'dodge' attacks as well and will just have to risk a loss. Midrange/control decks mitigate this by trying to draw out or analyze their opponent so that they can be pretty sure there's no more risk by the time they 'risk it'.
Aggro though..there's really nothing you can do. You have to start early and start fast since every delay you put, even for defense, is taking away your chance to win. For Aggro, the 'risk it' point is when you choose your deck and hit play. That's the curse of aggro.
Thus in most cases, you can't work around MCT. Waiting by only dropping 3 minions slows your offense giving your opponent more time to find their tools to stop you and get to their win condition ,whch you can't stop at all. In essence, trying to work around MCT means you'll have a greater chance of getting hit by MCT once you actually commit. Better to drop 4 small fries, let MCT steal one at turn 3, then drop more and keep the charge going.
PERHAPS 2 if you are very VERY *VERY* strong. As in: strong enough so that the second the 3 die you can flood the board can punish them afterwards or kill them quickly with what you have if they don't. Mech mage can do this if they didn't get their mechwarper dream and instead are tearing house with the midrange mechs, but that's because they have a non-worthless midrange mode when the aggro dream doesn't happen.
But overall, working around counters is for midrange and control decks. Aggro 'works around' by killing you before you can find the cards.
2
When people talk about a 51% win rate, they don't mean 51% when they hit rank 5. They mean maintaining a 51% rate from 5-1. That is, even with the difficulty moving up, you maintain a 51% rate.
This means having a deck/skill level good enough to have 51% even against legendary players (which you see at rank 1) and making changes/shifts to aggressively maintain that rate.
It also means that the SECOND you drop below 50% (due to the reasons you mention) then you stop rising.
So yes, you arenn't really arguing with those that mention it because the '51% rule' includes those very things you bring up.
Also the main reason why it's mention is due to people feeling the 'wall' at rank 5. They go up, think they are good, then 'SLAM' hit rank 5 then wonder what's going on. The answer: they either don't have a deck that can win more than it losses at the higher ranks, or they never were winning more than losing in the first place and, thus, were relying purely on the win streak.
0
Actually, I wish you did upset it. The entire problem with the mulligan issue is that we don't have any hard evidence. No video. No images. Nothing but a few 'I swear' quotes, most of which are flatly inconsequential (I mulliganed one of my 2 Cultists and I got a cultist. I SWEAR REPEATS HAPPEN!!!) or people who count the turn 1 card as "I got the card back", or people who argue all day why Blizzard purposely made it happen or people who say it happens because the imagery shows it happened. It's sort of like seeing a thief go west down a road, going up to the police to tell about it then seeing the cop surrounded by trolls that 'swear' that the thief went east, or north, or south, or started flying.
Mulliganing two holy nova and, in the return opening hand, getting one back is NOT meant to happen. If it ever did then that's proof of a bug in the mulligan system since Blizzard specifically said that you Should Not Get The Card Back. However, without some hard info then even if everyone believed you there would be no way for Blizzard to track it down. Even ONE instance of it would be enough to prove it exists.
I'm not saying that you can't say it didn't happen but if it's ok, describe it as a bug, not a feature. you AREN'T supposed to ever get a mulliganed card back to your opening hand.
And if you ever get some hard info on it then do send it to the group. Note, btw, that there's a log feature in the game that would track what cards you received so even if you don't have video proof then some proof will exist. If you know it happened and don't get info then send a ticket to blizzard at least with info to pinpoint the game it happened in (date/time it happened, who you fought, so on) so that they can at least try to track it down.
0
I don't think it's a matter of them being gimmicky. Shrink is loved as a way to steal cards but really is useful for any form of trade. He's good at what he does.
The problem seems to stem from GvG countering what Naxx did. Naxx gave priests a role at being non-reactive. Between Chow and Cultist along with the basic deathrattle push, priests actually had an aggressive (note not saying Aggro just a non-reactive style) mentality.
GvG though flipped the story backwards. Adding in priest cards meant taking out your more aggressive choices for reactive ones. What's worse, the more powerful combos were in late game which priest really didn't lack of already. The result is, again, a reactive deck.
Thinking about it, I'm wondering if it's more of a case of priests needing to stop gorging on GvG and to go back to the Naxx mindset. Why ARE they removing Chow from their decks? They still have CoH and Soulpriest. Meanwhile, if they maintained their early game then shrinkmeister can be used far more often as a tempo swinger rather than being held all day to act as a 4-attack-minion sylvanas.